Thread: Little sand piles at foundation

Hello all, Hope you can help me with this. The pic is of a pile of sand about 1/3 cup, there are about a dozen more along the base of the block foundation in a 10 ft stretch, the rest of them are about a tsp. The foundation intersects with a 6 ft wide at one time sidewalk with an overhead porch that has since had an exterior wall added in order to enclose the space. This is definitely sand not termite droppings, no tubes, no sign of critters living or dead. The sand does not match the dirt in the crawl. Space was enclosed 20 yrs ago.
Thanks, Matt

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All I can really tell from the photo is that it appears to be falling from somewhere higher up, as there is the same material trapped in a couple of the adjacent wall crevasses. If so it was , then, not carried there by insects or critters most likely.

Is that a cochroach carcass next to the pile (in the forfront of the photo)?

Sorry, have not really experienced this in particular. Wish I could help more.

that could be a ant nest, they like to dig out the soil and leave mounds of debri, not a problem, RAID will take care of that.

No cockroach just some carpet fibers.

From what I can ascertain, it looks like a leakage issue. There is water staining adjacent to the base and sides of the fines. The pattern of the sand also looks like it has been washed in.

Also; are those copper oil feed lines for the furnace?

Originally Posted by Matt Foster

The sand does not match the dirt in the crawl. Space was enclosed 20 yrs ago.
Thanks, Matt

.
Matt,

Possible Roof shingle Granules ( before the space was enclosed. )
.

Raymond,
Electric cords for a freezer and fridge that got painted.

I would say possibly carpenter ants, and call for a pest inspection without hesitation.

Originally Posted by mike huntzinger

that could be a ant nest, they like to dig out the soil and leave mounds of debri, not a problem, RAID will take care of that.

Yes, I think it is a sand pile made by ant or sow bug. For sure, it is not carpenter ant, it only nest in rotten wood.

Originally Posted by Daniel Leung

For sure, it is not carpenter ants, they only nest in rotten wood.

Sorry, DL, never say never. Carpenter ants will nest in other material, insulation, cardboard, rolled up canvas tents , and maybe in a cavity between the wooden plate and the concrete wall, where they could be pushing the sand out from. They are very resourceful and will not be killed off by a few shots of Raid unless you are hitting the queen and all the eggs.
Better have something like this checked out.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Carpenter ants will nest in other material, insulation, cardboard, rolled up canvas tents , and maybe in a cavity between the wooden plate and the concrete wall, where they could be pushing the sand out from.

Hi JK, carpenter prefer moist and decaying wood. In this case, we didn't see any moisture problem or any wooden structures in the photo. Therefore I think it is not carpenter ants.
See Effective Control of Carpenter Ants in Health Canada web:
"Carpenter ants construct nests by burrowing into wood. Outdoors, they are found in dead trunks of standing trees, stumps, or logs, or under fallen logs and stones. They prefer moist, decaying wood, and their presence in a home can be a sign of a moisture problem, or of wooden structures suffering from decay. Carpenter ants can, on occasion, mine sound wood, but it is usually a soft wood, such as pine or more commonly rotten and soft wood that they choose. They excavate galleries much longer than those produced by termites. The wood is not eaten but ejected from the nest as sawdust-like shavings.
These have a shredded texture, somewhat like the shavings found in pencil sharpeners. Indeed, heaps of these wood fragments, which the ants have expelled through slits in the infested woodwork, may be one of the signs of infestation.
In addition to tunneling in outside woodwork of buildings, wooden steps and sills, they also infest hollow spaces such as wall voids, attic spaces, hollow doors, cracks, crevices, furniture and existing termite galleries. Nests have also been found behind books in libraries, behind drawers in dressers and cabinets, and in styrofoam insulation."

I don't think its Carpenter Ants either. There is no frass and Carpenter Ants would almost certainly be in the rim joist areas as this is where I have found them before. Also you would almost likely have carcasses in the vicinity. Have never found Carpenter Ants below grade where there is no wood to gallery fwiw.

Thanks for all your input so far, turns out that last winter there was severe ice dams with water running down the exterior wall. I was wondering if water got under the slab could it force its way under the slab to the foundation and up carrying the sand with it?
Matt

Yes, it is my belief this is the result of water washing in.

No, no water stain or efforescence sign on the photo. Therefore, no water wash out the sands. My belief is the results of insects activity.

Daniel

On my monitor I can see a very light yellowish water stain.

After clearing away the freezer and everything else there are some sow bug carcases and earwig.
Matt

ANTS

Best

Ron
Santa Rosa California Home Inspection - Exterminating & Thermal Imaging

An ANT with a wheelbarrow possibly.

Perhaps they had a termite service come and drill holes to pump in the treatment?

I have similar piles under my house for that reason.

R

Originally Posted by Matt Foster

Hello all, Hope you can help me with this. The pic is of a pile of sand about 1/3 cup, there are about a dozen more along the base of the block foundation in a 10 ft stretch, the rest of them are about a tsp. The foundation intersects with a 6 ft wide at one time sidewalk with an overhead porch that has since had an exterior wall added in order to enclose the space. This is definitely sand not termite droppings, no tubes, no sign of critters living or dead. The sand does not match the dirt in the crawl. Space was enclosed 20 yrs ago.
Thanks, Matt

I'm guessing ants as well.
State appears signs of pest and suggest the buyer consult with a qualified, licensed exterminating company to evaluate this

there is always the possiblity of the rare case of it being kids with a too much time on their hands. or like someone else has said maybe it was from above and during cleaning has fallen thru.

It's from ants, see it all the time.

I had the guys with the wheel barrows that Rick pictured at my house once

Ants, had same pattern and material at my own home this summer. Opened some trim at foundation height and found the trail. They understood my subtle "Go West" persuasion.

Infiltration of the fines, over time, out of backfill to footing from under footing is a possibility.

They're "Pavement Ants."

Ants that would leave mounds similar to that, like pavement ants, would have visible holes. They would not leave a pattern of sand where the finer grains spread farther than the coarse ones, or a mound that's almost flat. The overall pattern of sandy bits along the floor seems odd for ants, too.

I think the idea of it squeezing in from the fill during a wet period more likely. Something similar seems to happen in my house.

It's from ants, Also that is a dead
Waterbug, Palmetto Bug, by the cable

Originally Posted by Kristi Silber

Ants that would leave mounds similar to that, like pavement ants, would have visible holes. They would not leave a pattern of sand where the finer grains spread farther than the coarse ones, or a mound that's almost flat. The overall pattern of sandy bits along the floor seems odd for ants, too.

I think the idea of it squeezing in from the fill during a wet period more likely. Something similar seems to happen in my house.

The wind moves sand Honey, ever seen a dune with a hole in the top of it or a volcano made of sand? It's from Pavement Ants.....

The pavement ant, Tetramorium caespitum, is a common household pest. Its name comes from the fact that colonies usually make their homes in pavement. It is distinguished by one spine on the back, two nodes on the petiole, and grooves on the head and thorax [1]. The species is native to Europe, but was introduced to North America in the 18th century.
During early spring, colonies attempt to conquer new areas and often attack nearby enemy colonies. These result in huge sidewalk battles, sometimes leaving thousands of ants dead. Because of their aggressive nature, they often invade and colonize seemingly impenetrable areas. In summer time the ants dig out the sand in between the pavements to vent the nests.

Pavement Ant — Entomology — Penn State University

Because it is sand material it could be from some one driling in foundation to install bolting??

Originally Posted by Rolland Pruner

Because it is sand material it could be from some one driling in foundation to install bolting??

Sorry, it is sand in this case, not concrete powder!

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

The wind moves sand Honey, ever seen a dune with a hole in the top of it or a volcano made of sand? It's from Pavement Ants.....

Even in an enclosed crawl space Honey?

Whatever, fine, it's ants. Not worth arguing about. Not like any ant hill I've ever seen, and everyone has seen pavement ants - I have them around my foundation, they just took wing a couple weeks ago. Look for signs of them on the outside of the wall - they'd need to get out to forage. Pavement ant nests go that deep?

Originally Posted by Kristi Silber

Even in an enclosed crawl space Honey?

Whatever, fine, it's ants. Not worth arguing about. Not like any ant hill I've ever seen, and everyone has seen pavement ants - I have them around my foundation, they just took wing a couple weeks ago. Look for signs of them on the outside of the wall - they'd need to get out to forage. Pavement ant nests go that deep?

Here you go Ms Entomologist


HABITAT
"This ant gets its name because it most commonly nests in soil next to and beneath slabs, sidewalks, patios, and driveways. Indoors, pavement ants nest under a building’s foundation and within hollow foundation walls."



Source: Ants - Facts About Ants - Types of Ants - PestWorldforKids.org

Thank you, Jim. That answers my question.

Actually, sometimes I think I should have become an entomologist. Insects kinda fascinate me.

Originally Posted by Kristi Silber

Thank you, Jim. That answers my question.

Actually, sometimes I think I should have become an entomologist. Insects kinda fascinate me.

Sorry if I lost my patience and came across as a Jackass trying to convince you Kristy, but I've been a Structural Pest Inspector for nearly 10 years and you definitely were a tough cookie to convince. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

Sorry if I lost my patience and came across as a Jackass trying to convince you Kristy, but I've been a Structural Pest Inspector for nearly 10 years and you definitely were a tough cookie to convince. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

No problem! I know I can get stubborn sometimes. A naughty part of me likes playing devil's advocate. It was a serious question about whether the nests go that deep, though; nice to hear from a professional in the biz. Happy T-day likewise!

Gents,

I think it is most likely pavement ants or ants like this, see this type of piles all the time.

Daniel, your comment on Carpenter ants is a bit off base. Thought they may prefer moist rotted wood they can inhabit perfectly fine, dry wood also.

I am a structural pest inspector also and live in a high carpenter ant activity area.
Most of Canada uses Dr Hansen material for reference. I would highly recommend reading her material. She is one of the world leading authorities on carpenters.

Carpenter Ants