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  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Latex application over stucco

    This home is about 12 years old. A latex coating has been applied over the stucco. How often do you see this and do you mention it. I know it can conceal minor cracking and damage.

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  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    This home is about 12 years old. A latex coating has been applied over the stucco. How often do you see this and do you mention it. I know it can conceal minor cracking and damage.
    MS: Read:

    Stucco Frequently Asked Questions - Painting Stucco

    The information on painting exterior plaster (stucco) is similar coming from the Portland Cement Association. You should never paint stucco with latex paint. Portland cement-based paints are available. Fog coating is the better option.


  3. #3
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    The painting of stucco is a common practice and CAN But does not necessaly compromise the stucco system.

    To answer your question correctly. I asume this is a one coat system. with a acrylic coating. OR is it a 3 coat system with a latex paint, or a acrlic topcoat


    It it is a one-coat a acrylic top coat is a approved material by many makers of one-coat systems.

    I would bet there are other issues which compromise the stucco system to a far lager degree than the top coat, whatever the material.

    In todays world of stucco problems you would be a huge risk by not suggesting a stucco inspection. I as many others would consider it the industry standard, and reasonable care


  4. #4
    Daniel Leung's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Some of my clients apply liquid vinyl or ceramic coating on their cracked stucco walls. It looks good and solves the water penetration problem.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    A latex coating has been applied over the stucco.

    Most coatings applied to stucco are "latex" coatings.

    Most are also acrylic coatings too.

    Most are even known as "paint", although your photo looks more like EIFS topcoat on EIFS than paint on stucco.

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  6. #6
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    The painting of stucco is a common practice and CAN But does not necessaly compromise the stucco system.
    SVH: As usual, you seem to know more about the subject than the industry epxerts. How is that, do you suppose?


  7. #7
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Leung View Post
    Some of my clients apply liquid vinyl or ceramic coating on their cracked stucco walls. It looks good and solves the water penetration problem.
    DL: It may look good, but it defeats the self-draining function of 3-coat stucco. This is the 21st Century. Think: fog coat.


  8. #8
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    I am a industry expert


  9. #9
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Van Houtan View Post
    I am a industry expert
    SVH: No, you are just pretending to know more than the Portland Cement Association, the American Concrete Institute, et al.

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  10. #10
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    There is a stucco inspector going out next week I will keep you posted


  11. #11
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    There is a stucco inspector going out next week I will keep you posted
    MS: In my area about 75% of the "stucco inspectors" are installers who operate part-time businesses as apologists for their and their peers defective installations. The short of it is that, upon receipt of their reports, the owners find that there is little or nothing wrong with the stucco, when in fact, there are a myriad of issues.


  12. #12
    Daniel Leung's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Van Houtan View Post
    I am a industry expert
    For risk management, my mentor, insurance company and lawyer said, ""Do not claim yourself expert, you are a professional home inspector only." This always deep in my mind.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    I notice snow on the ground, traditional cement based stucco will not perform well in freeze-thaw climates. It might be an EIFS system, the texture certainly looks like Acrylic finish, but if it is cracking like that underneath there's certainly more going on. If you are at all in doubt,call in an expert, don't post here looking for one. Too many demigods...

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  14. #14
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    JC

    Why would you say that a tradition stucco system would not perform in a freeze - thaw climate.

    We Have thousands of home with such a type of system many well over a 100 years old that are still servicable.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Experience, and physics.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  16. #16
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    I see you are in the dry land of AZ, Unless you have performed inspections in another part of the world question the experiece part. As for phisics, well, as I said we have thousands of performing stucco homes in the midwest. Many are very old and still servicable. This is empricaly wrong. You would have ot show me fact to suppot this theory.


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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    I notice snow on the ground, traditional cement based stucco will not perform well in freeze-thaw climates.
    I think you just made that up. Dry concrete does not freeze or thaw.


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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    no, but water does...try and follow the drift, please.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    JC

    there are thousands of stucco homes here in no snow and warm COLORADO, what are you thinking

    charlie


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    I'm thinking that stucco cracks. I'm also thinking that water from melting snow or freezing rain gets into those cracks. Overnight temps drop below freezing. Water expands when frozen, fracturing said stucco. Process repeats daily during cold season. (3-6 months, depending on latitude?) Stucco slowly deteiorates due to continuous fracturing, or is it your position that dry cement repairs itself?
    Again, it's the physics you can't get away from, no matter how many thousands of homes hundreds of years old there may be. Stucco will deteriorate faster under these continuous stresses. I'm not saying it won't last, it just cracks more and it requires a lot more mantenance than at lower latitudes. (does not perform well, my original point-see above)

    Please feel free to disagree with the opinion as much as you like, but know that the facts and physics behind this are not in dispute.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    I'm not saying it won't last, it just cracks more and it requires a lot more mantenance than at lower latitudes. (does not perform well, my original point-see above)

    John,

    While I agree with your overall premise (and, of course, the science behind it) I disagree with your conclusion.

    You stated "traditional cement based stucco will not perform well in freeze-thaw climates" and, in my opinion, and suspect the opinion of virtually every building professional will agree, that if a building material, especially a continuously weather-exposed material such as exterior wall cladding, has shown that it lasts 100-200 years, that it "does perform well" ... acknowledging that maintenance is a requirement for ANY exterior wall cladding to last even half that long.



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  22. #22
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Ok, last effort, and I'm done.
    The pic originally posted at the beginning of this thread showed a wall that obviously has many fractures. Even though it appears that there has been some attempt made to remediate those cracks, the original job was obviously "not performing well" and in danger of failure. Placement of another layer of texture with elastomeric qualities, may delay further damage, even a layer of good latex paint will protect the further deterioration of the base coat, for a while. When that layer erodes enough to the point where moisture is again penetrating the cracks beneath, the problem will return, and often more damage occurs underneath the "protective" layer.
    Yes, the odd job will indeed last for more than the expected life, whatever that is supposed to be, but in general, I stand by my premise. Freeze-thaw climates and stucco are risky at best.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  24. #24
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    JC, As with all you are welcome to you own opinion, but, you are way off base here.

    A improperly installed stucco job, that does not perform is not in any way a indication of how a properly installed job will perform.

    As to your physics, yes water in a concrete crack will cause damage, BUT, as evident by the thousands of performing 3-coat stucco homes that still have usufull life in the stucco system show, that there is not enough water in these cracks to cause enough major damage to degrade the system.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Sorry, just have to respond. Since you are so sure about how a "properly installed" stucco system will perform, exactly how much damage is too much?
    Any stucco system however properly installed, will crack. End of argument on that point, I hope.
    When the crack occurs, in a freeze-thaw climate, the damage will continue until remedied.
    The stucco membrane is the first line of defense against moisture intrusion into the wall cavity. The second layer is the WRB, often called the secondary moisture barrier. If this secondary layer is properly installed. then any moisture penetrating the stucco, or primary moisture barrier, is directed down the wall and out of the system through a weep screed. However, tth degradition of the primary moisture barrier, or stucco, continues in the freeze-thaw process. Eventually, constant exposure to moisture begins to degrade the secondary barrier until it too, fails. Then the fun really begins, because the secondary barrier is not designed to repel constant moisture. It will eventually fail under the relentless moisture, regardless of the design intent. Faced with these facts, I await your completely logical rebuttal. Oh, and the argument that "thousands of performing 3-coat stucco homes" in freeze-thaw climates really holds no water, so to speak, since the damage to those homes continues daily. So, please spare me that nonsensical claptrap yet again.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  26. #26
    William Brady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    It's not EIFS just look at the finish around the window. No sealant and the finish at the site of stone and stucco, no sealant. Just an observation.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by William Brady View Post
    It's not EIFS just look at the finish around the window. No sealant and the finish at the site of stone and stucco, no sealant. Just an observation.
    The lack of or the presence of sealants and how the penetrations are finished is not how you ID EIFS. The pictures do look like an acrylic finish coat was used.

    As for painting EIFS? It can be done, the manufacturers even make the products to do it. Also Porter has a product for EIFS.

    As for painting Stucco? It can be done. From PCA:
    Stucco can be painted. Portland cement-based paints are very compatible with stucco because they are made of the same material. These paints should be scrubbed into the surface and fully cured. Alternatively, you could consider a colored stucco finish. These finish coats are often made with white cement and pigments, providing the widest range of colors. Premixed materials are color matched from batch to batch and are most consistent. Additionally, the fact that you are placing a finish coat with a nominal thickness of 1/8 in. instead of a paint layer usually gives more assurance of complete coverage. It is possible to paint with other types of paint, though these are usually not as long lasting as cement-based paint. Acrylic paints are long lasting and durable but change the permeability of the stucco (make it non-breathable) which in some climates may have adverse effects on the long-term performance of the system.
    When you paint EIFS or Stucco, you are making it a maintenance issue. You will need to paint the house every few years compared to if a new finish coat was applied that would last for 15+ years. A new finish coat in many instances will cost about 25% more than just painting. It really is worth the extra, if you can afford it.

    It should also be noted the PCA is promoting their memberships product "Portland cement" . Acrylic top or finish coats are used all the time on 3 coat systems. I'm not sure about western one coat and the type of finish or top coats that can be used.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 03-26-2010 at 08:59 AM.
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  28. #28
    William Brady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    your rigth Scott however sealants are required are they not. I was just looking at the picture and making a comment. We only had a picture to work with. Sealants are one way of looking at a home and to start making a decision on what type of system in present. Absent seeing sealant my first but not last opinion would be hey it's conventional. Runnning a wet wall detector over it is another way of telling what you have or taking off something and looking at a cross section is another. All I was saying is that I do not see sealants.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Quote Originally Posted by William Brady View Post
    your rigth Scott however sealants are required are they not. I was just looking at the picture and making a comment. We only had a picture to work with. Sealants are one way of looking at a home and to start making a decision on what type of system in present. Absent seeing sealant my first but not last opinion would be hey it's conventional. Runnning a wet wall detector over it is another way of telling what you have or taking off something and looking at a cross section is another. All I was saying is that I do not see sealants.
    Hey Bill,

    Yes, sealants are required and on older and some newer applications seldom found!

    But, if they are applied correctly with backer rod and then sealants colored/sanded to match the finish coat, you will not see the sealants. If properly done the sealant should blend into the wall. You can tell by pressing or poking the area around the penetration, it will be kind of flexible like rubber if the a colored/sanded sealant has been used.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    I encounter two major problems with acrylic paints applied to conventional stucco:

    1) In some cases, they don't adhere well (see picture below).

    2) In other cases they adhere far too well - and any time that you want to make a repair your faced with the problem of removing the paint from the adjacent surfaces.

    As a consequence the advise that I've received from stucco contractors here in Chicago is: 1) you're better off not painting stucco and 2) if you do, do not use conventional acrylic paints.

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    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 03-26-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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  31. #31
    William Brady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Latex application over stucco

    Thanks Scott for the feed back. Seldom found, well thats the making of another class action, if in fact it is still going on. With all the training and work on EIFS I have done and seeing the conventional application all over the place down here I took one look at the above pictures and did not see anything like a silicone joint. I fully understand the low miglus (is that how it's spelled) sealant I use Dow Corning stuff for all my work. I just spoke to Total Wall's chemist today about another matter and we discussed this question. I remember that you are well versed in EIFS from previous conversations. Someday if we ever get to talk I will tell you a story about EDI just in case you have lost track of them.

    Best regards

    Bill Brady


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