Cantilevered Lintels

**Bruce Breedlove** · 02-11-2010, 09:32 PM

That's what we like to see - a lintel supporting the brick veneer at every window opening.

Not sure how far back the masons ran the lintels into the brick veneer but I hope it was more than the normal bearing of the other lintels.

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Bert de Haan · 02-12-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove

That's what we like to see - a lintel supporting the brick veneer at every window opening.

Not sure how far back the masons ran the lintels into the brick veneer but I hope it was more than the normal bearing of the other lintels.

I can see it needs a lintel with this design but when the arch is where it normally is (where it should be) an lintel doesn't add anything to the strength.

A.D. Miller · 02-12-2010, 03:43 PM

This is a Venetian arch which should have a proper lintel:

Venetian Arch Lintel - Catnic - Special lintel with venetian arch

Venetian Arch Lintel

Venetian Arch

Bert de Haan · 02-12-2010, 04:28 PM

Thanks A.D. I didn't realize this design actually came with a name. This type of arch sure does away with the structural benefits of an arch and are left just with the aesthetics.

**neal lewis** · 02-12-2010, 05:30 PM

The more common name for this is a Palladian window.

**Jerry Peck** · 02-12-2010, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bert de Haan

This type of arch sure does away with the structural benefits of an arch and are left just with the aesthetics.

Only in modern construction.

Back in the day the arch performed as designed by bearing on the center structural supports between the windows, with the two side windows being flat top from the side bearing to the center bearing points where the arch was also bearing.

Advance backward (in this case, along with some other cases) to modern construction and the full width needs to be spanned with a header as there are no center supports, just "frames" between the windows. Now, the opening is no longer (as an example) a 4 foot arched opening flanked with 2-3 foot flat top openings with center supports ... the opening is now a full 10 feet wide and requires some structural support suitable for that full 10 foot width - which means the load on the bearing at the ends is now MUCH GREATER too.

Bert de Haan · 02-12-2010, 06:12 PM

Thanks Jerry. Now I also understand why one of the links of the OP said:...giving an outstanding traditional appearance.

**Michael Thomas** · 02-12-2010, 06:48 PM

OK. But is that continuous lintel a requirement, or just a Good Idea (tm)?

A.D. Miller · 02-13-2010, 06:41 AM

NL: The common element of Palladian arches, which distinguishes them from the Venetian (Queen Anne) arches is the supports below the arched opening. So then, the photo in the original post depicts a Venetian, and not a Palladian, arch.

From the Brick Industry Association's Technical Note 31 - Brick Masonry Arches.

**Door Guy** · 02-13-2010, 12:15 PM

A.D. thanks for the pics on the lintel support... I have never seen one of those. That's why I like hanging around here, learn something new all the time.

However, I don't see even the slightest hint of movement in any of the brick pictures. It appears that whatever the mason did, it's working, atleast for now. I don't even see any hairline cracks?

chris mcintyre · 02-13-2010, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

So then, the photo in the original post depicts a Venetian, and not a Palladian, arch.

I did not notice that it was a 1/2 round window sitting on a wider window, which (I have just learned) meets the Venetian criteria.

So am I correct in that the lintels in post #3 are Venetian lintes because they are one piece and do not require support at the corners of the arch, and are pictured with a Palladian window?

**Jerry Peck** · 02-13-2010, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by chris mcintyre

So am I correct in that the lintels in post #3 are Venetian lintes because they are one piece and do not require support at the corners of the arch, and are pictured with a Palladian window?

Yes, because that Paladin window does not really have the center supports of old, only fake supports separating the windows, thus the wall above needs to be supported across the entire width, thus the need to use the Venetian arch lintel.

A.D. Miller · 02-13-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Door Guy

A.D. thanks for the pics on the lintel support... I have never seen one of those. That's why I like hanging around here, learn something new all the time.

However, I don't see even the slightest hint of movement in any of the brick pictures. It appears that whatever the mason did, it's working, atleast for now. I don't even see any hairline cracks?

DG: It will probably function just fine where it is located. Put it in a house atop the most expansive clay soil in the US, and it will be a different story.

**Door Guy** · 02-13-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

DG: It will probably function just fine where it is located. Put it in a house atop the most expansive clay soil in the US, and it will be a different story.

We have various soils here in Michigan. Even the expansive clays, I think they really can be built on if done correctly (not ideal though). The funny thing here is such a mix. I built a house about 20 years ago, we dug the basement and the front half was slippery red clay, the back of the hole was like beach sand. That concerned me having the foundation on two soil types, but everything was just fine and is still good now.