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  1. #1
    John Stephenson's Avatar
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    Default Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Last edited by John Stephenson; 12-21-2007 at 08:54 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Deteriorate is a good word for me.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I have seen physical damage but never rot damage. Its certainly possible and I know better to say that rot/deterioration can never happen but this material is supposed to be resistant to water damage.

    Just curious in what circumstance did you see this condition?

    //Rick

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    Can hardi-plank /cementitious siding become rot damage? Or does the siding become "water damaged" and just deteriorate. Rot is for wood correct?

    Looking for proper terminology/descripition.
    It does not rot. I will crumble or deteriorate.

    Also you need to spell it properly if you are reporting on it. It is Hardie not Hardi or Hardy. Lately I have seen it spelled all types of ways except the correct way.

    JamesHardie Siding

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  5. #5
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    But, strangely, in Europe it is called HardiPlank.

    James Hardie« Hardiplank┬« Siding

    I have to plead guilty myself to never using the "e" in the name. Perhaps because I'm British?


  6. #6
    Chad Fabry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I call it fiber cement.

    The different brands all look so similar that even side by side it'd difficult to identify which brand is which.

    I don't try and identify the manufacturer of wood, vinyl, composite or aluminum sidings either.


  7. #7
    Brandon Chew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Hi Chad,

    Do you have any comments on the durability and deterioration of the fiber cement siding? I recall that you were running some kind of test on it involving a pond and harsh upstate New York winters. Any updates on that?

    Brandon


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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Also you need to spell it properly if you are reporting on it. It is Hardie not Hardi or Hardy. Lately I have seen it spelled all types of ways except the correct way.
    Scot,

    The company name and the product name are different and that confuses many people. Hardipanel®, Hardiplank®, Hardisoffit®, and Harditrim® are all made by James Hardie® Siding Products.

    All products names have the "e" in Hardie dropped. Make sure you spell it right when you report on it!

    Since there is more than one manufacturer of such products, it probably best to refer to the product by type and not by the specific brand name. The code refers to such products as "fiber cement" siding products irrespective of brand names.

    "FIBER CEMENT SIDING. A manufactured, fiber-reinforcing product made with an inorganic hydraulic or calcium silicate binder formed by chemical reaction and reinforced with organic or inorganic non-asbestos fibers, or both. Additives which enhance manufacturing or product performance are permitted. Fiber cement siding products have either smooth or textured faces and are intended for exterior wall and related applications."


  9. #9
    Mike Parks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    John

    KISS
    It is damaged.


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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post

    [size=2][font=Arial]Scot,

    The company name and the product name are different and that confuses many people. Hardipanel®, Hardiplank®, Hardisoffit®, and Harditrim® are all made by James Hardie® Siding Products.

    All products names have the "e" in Hardie dropped. Make sure you spell it right when you report on it!
    Sorry, Philip, but this is from the James Hardie site itself:

    HardiePlank™ Lap Siding

    HardieShingle™ Siding

    HaridePanel™ Vertical Siding



    ( JamesHardie Siding )

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Somebody needs to tell these folks to stop selling it until they can spell it.

    Houston Hardiplank Siding, Vinyl Siding, and Replacement Windows from Allied Siding & Windows

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    Scot P.

    Your an idiot. Focusing on spelling on a message board? You are an idiot. That's why you write lame inspection reports - - I've seen yours - - wow, and you tout yourself as not being in bed with agents, focusing on buyers...wow.....you be also a liar and a hypocrite.
    Hi John,

    Life is too short, chill and reduce the caffeine.

    A word of adivce if you will listen. Do not burn bridges in this profession, it is a small community.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  13. #13
    Richard Moore's Avatar
    Richard Moore Guest

    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    Scot P.

    Your an idiot. Focusing on spelling on a message board? You are an idiot. That's why you write lame inspection reports - - I've seen yours - - wow, and you tout yourself as not being in bed with agents, focusing on buyers...wow.....you be also a liar and a hypocrite.
    WOW!!! Indeed! John, you have just successfully removed yourself from the list of professionals that I would attempt to help in the future. Congratulations.


  14. #14
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Back to the spelling of Hardiplank/Hardieplank.

    For what it's worth, this site James Hardie Siding Center | 1.866.3.HARDIE | Serving the Denver Metro Area looks very official and doesn't use the "e". I'd swear it used to be just "Hardi" all the time. I wonder if they have added a new trade marked name to distinguish the American product from the European one? Either way, I think we all know what we are talking about with or without the "e".


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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Do not burn bridges in this profession, it is a small community.
    Very sage advice.


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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Moore View Post
    Back to the spelling of Hardiplank/Hardieplank.

    For what it's worth, this site James Hardie Siding Center | 1.866.3.HARDIE | Serving the Denver Metro Area is also from the parent company and doesn't use the "e". I'd swear it used to be just "Hardi" all the time. I wonder if they have added a new trade marked name to distinguish the Amereican product from the European one? Either way, I think we all know what we are talking about with or without the "e".
    I brought this up because I got nailed in court about five weeks ago when I spelled it without the "e". The opposing council tried to have me removed as an expert for not knowing the proper name of the product. The judge told him that he was tired and it sounded the same to him with or without an "e".

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  17. #17
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    LOL...the judge sounds like a sensible man.

    Kind of ironic, but when I viewed your last post, this was in the sponsored links directly below.

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    Scot P.

    Your an idiot. Focusing on spelling on a message board? You are an idiot. That's why you write lame inspection reports - - I've seen yours - - wow, and you tout yourself as not being in bed with agents, focusing on buyers...wow.....you be also a liar and a hypocrite.
    John, oh John ...

    YOU POSTED THIS ....

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    Can hardi-plank /cementitious siding become rot damage? Or does the siding become "water damaged" and just deteriorate. Rot is for wood correct?

    Looking for proper terminology/descripition.
    YOU ASKED FOR "proper terminology/descripition". (By the way, "descripition" is spelled "description".)

    Then, when you got it and didn't like it, you turned on the person providing the answer to YOUR question.

    Seems to me that you owe Scott a big apology and you have some 'go sit in the corner and cool off' time coming.

    Maybe even 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Your right Jerry,

    The web site does indeed say Hardie* while the stack of James Hardie literature I have all says Hardi*.

    Scot,

    It seems no matter how we spell it we can't go wrong! That would have been a good one to drop on that attorney five weeks ago!

    John,

    Try and disagree without being disagreeable.


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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Scot,
    It's never to late to tell an attorney to kiss where the sun don't shine. Send him some literature.

    I knew the answer given was incomplete. It took me a while to remember where I had seen it both ways and from Hardie. Attached MSDS.

    http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/msds.pdf

    Last edited by Thom Walker; 07-05-2007 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Attachment
    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Walker View Post
    Scot,
    It's never to late to tell an attorney to kiss where the sun don't shine. Send him some literature.

    I knew the answer given was incomplete. It took me a while to remember where I had seen it both ways and from Hardie. Attached MSDS.

    http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/msds.pdf
    Nah, my team(we had 4 EW's) won. That speaks for itself.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I was writing a report this week and went to the Hardie website to double check the spelling! I found "Hardieplank" at the webpage for installation instructions and went back to change it in my report.

    As far as spelling goes, I think it is very important in an inspection report. Regardless of a person's expertise, misspelled words or bad grammar in a report can give some clients cause to doubt your professionalism and could cause a lost referral. I'm a pretty good speller but still use spell check and proofread my reports.

    As far as this message board goes, I try to be careful with my spelling here but really could care less about misspelled words in a thread because of hasty writing or whatever. I think most of us have misspelled a word or two in our posts at one time or another.

    Eric

    Last edited by Eric Shuman; 07-08-2007 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Edited for spelling, :D

  24. #24
    Kenton Shepard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    "Rot" is actually decay caused by fungi. During wood decay, fungi consume the wood cell contents and sometimes the cell wall. Fungi need at least approx. 20% moisture to become active and when they are inactive, no decay takes place.
    Cementicious sidings may be deteriorated by continuous exposure to moisture, and you may see fungal colonies growing on it which are consuming something else, but no, decay fungus will not rot Haurdiyeplunk.


  25. #25
    David Banks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I have here sitting in front of me on the front cover "Installation best practices for exterior siding, trim and interior products 2005. version 2.0"
    James Hardie Building Products
    They then have subtitles listed as-
    Hardiplank
    (lap siding)
    Hardipanel
    (vertical siding)
    Hardishingle
    (siding)
    Hardisoffit
    Hardibacker
    (cement board)
    It seems the name of the company is spelled with ie and the products remove the e.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenton Shepard View Post
    "Rot" is actually decay caused by fungi. During wood decay, fungi consume the wood cell contents and sometimes the cell wall. Fungi need at least approx. 20% moisture to become active and when they are inactive, no decay takes place.
    Cementicious sidings may be deteriorated by continuous exposure to moisture, and you may see fungal colonies growing on it which are consuming something else, but no, decay fungus will not rot Haurdiyeplunk.
    This is the of "rot", from the Merriam-Webster Online dictionary:

    rot

    11 entries found for rot. The first 10 are listed below.
    To select an entry, click on it. For more results, click here. rot[1,verb]rot[2,noun]black rotbrown rotdry-rotdry rotear rotfoot rotnoble rotroot rot Main Entry: 1rot
    Pronunciation: 'rńt
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): rotĚted; rotĚting
    Etymology: Middle English roten, from Old English rotian; akin to Old High German rOzzEn to rot
    intransitive verb
    1 a : to undergo decomposition from the action of bacteria or fungi b : to become unsound or weak (as from use or chemical action)
    2 a : to go to ruin : DETERIORATE b : to become morally corrupt : DEGENERATE
    transitive verb : to cause to decompose or deteriorate with or as if with rot
    synonym see DECAY

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Fiber cement products appear to hold up better than this thread.

    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 07-09-2007 at 05:03 PM. Reason: good karma
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I've got it!!! It's all a marketing ploy by the James H company to get everyone talking about their product.

    I've often wondered since I could swear I saw it both ways... I like the idea of calling it fiber cement.

    For what it's worth I was on my way to an inspection today and the truck next to me had a load wrapped and it said 'Hardiplank' with no 'e'

    Leave it to an attorney to try and win a case based on that... lol.

    Maybe you should write him and tell him he likely lost the case due to his own 'negligenc'


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    Lightbulb Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Have some fun. If you check your state's court rules, you will probably find that the lawyer in question violated the court rules by misleading the court. If you are bored, file a grievance on him. After all, there are standards!! If somebody wants to crease my britches, they had absolutely better have the facts straight.

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  30. #30

    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    This was, unfortunately allowed on the forum:...
    Scot P.
    Your an idiot. Focusing on spelling on a message board? You are an idiot. That's why you write lame inspection reports - - I've seen yours - - wow, and you tout yourself as not being in bed with agents, focusing on buyers...wow.....you be also a liar and a hypocrite.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Other forums I frequent have rules of etiquette and would permanently bar this kind of person. I guess there will always be sour grapes on the vine. I sure would never refer anyone to someone who makes these kind of comments; Very unprofessional. A black eye for the inspections industry.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by brent lerwill View Post
    This was, unfortunately allowed on the forum:...
    Scot P.
    Your an idiot. Focusing on spelling on a message board? You are an idiot. That's why you write lame inspection reports - - I've seen yours - - wow, and you tout yourself as not being in bed with agents, focusing on buyers...wow.....you be also a liar and a hypocrite.
    Brent,

    If you had used the 'quote' button, your post would have included the name of the person who made that statement, then your post would have more impact (as the individual you are referring to would have their name shown).

    Now, it kinda looks like (at first) that you are talking to Scott P. (even though we know you are not).

    Other forums I frequent have rules of etiquette and would permanently bar this kind of person.
    That one of the disadvantages of a non-moderated forum, however, the advantages far outweigh that disadvantage.

    Once the moderator kicks in, they discourage conversation and feelings, which leads to dry postings, and, unfortunately, many moderators become little Hitlers in their own fiefdom, deleting things simply because, as they put it *because I can*.

    Brian has ultimate control here, and when a person continually exceeds the bounds of civility, as one person here did, that person no longer posts here.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    I had forgotten about this thread, I think John was just having a bad day. Let's leave it at that.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  33. #33
    Jimmy Breazeale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Well, I hardily endorse fiber cement products, despite the fact that many dummies install it in a manner which promotes deterioration. It is a rotten thing to do to the best composite materials ever to come onto the market. Furthermore, I have met a number of realtors with whom I would happily share my bed, were I not already happily married.


  34. #34
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Shirley, you don't mean with the beans and franks too???


  35. #35
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
    Lewis Capaul Guest

    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I brought this up because I got nailed in court about five weeks ago when I spelled it without the "e". The opposing council tried to have me removed as an expert for not knowing the proper name of the product. The judge told him that he was tired and it sounded the same to him with or without an "e".
    You could have shown the lawyer the Installation Instructions for Hardiplank

    http://fstservicesatlanta.com/hardip...dgeinstall.pdf

    I inspected a two story house today, built in 06', much of the "building" likely done by the owner, although the house is in Bonner County Idaho, which is a no Code Zone.

    The siding was fiber cement, probably not Hardiplank, it was white with cedar stain, almost every plank is loose, it must really rattle when the wind blows, it was blind nailed but not caulked, 1/8th and bigger gaps at butt joints and corners, the bottom edges of many planks are not stained and in sever places the ends are pulling away from the structure. The angled cuts where a wall and garage roof met were very sloppy with more than 2" gaps along the wall roof line, it did make it easy to see the step flashing though.

    My recommendation is for a licensed siding contractor to be hired to properly secure and caulk the siding, which would mean face nailing.

    Here's another site I came across that I am referring my clients too, its from CertainTeed. pretty informative:

    Fiber Cement Siding Installation WeatherBoards

    I should charge a lot more for inspections in Bonner County, but they are so entertaining and educational.


  36. #36
    Frank C. Carter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardi-plank/cementitious siding

    Sometimes fiber cemented material just delaminates (new word) and falls apart. Just a post to be part of the Forum and Fun


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