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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ingleside Illinois
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    118

    Default Cement siding advice

    Yesterday this nice lady called asking if I would just do a siding inspection, I won't do a partial inspection, I suggested she call someone else. She said I was the third HI that turned her down and she didn't know where to turn. Hearing her situation I offered to look at it and not charge her, nor would I write a report.
    The problem: 4 year old home that has hardy cement siding that won't hold paint, is cracking in spots and coming apart in others. Contractor says its the problem of the manufacturer, (its Hardie siding) they say its installed wrong and this poor lady is in the middle. The paint is peeling on the board just above the flashing in most areas,none of them are caulked.However, I was told that area doesn't have to be. WHAT ?
    I can't explain the cracking. Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. I told her I'd provide your opinions within a week or so. She thanks you and so do I.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,251

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Wieczorek View Post
    The problem: 4 year old home that has hardy cement siding that won't hold paint, is cracking in spots and coming apart in others. Contractor says its the problem of the manufacturer, (its Hardie siding) they say its installed wrong and this poor lady is in the middle.
    Probably installed wrong, possibly installed with no WRB behind it, possibly installed damp and possibly painted while damp, also possibly not primed.

    The paint is peeling on the board just above the flashing in most areas,none of them are caulked.However, I was told that area doesn't have to be. WHAT ?
    The caulking of the joints issue has gone round-and-round, first with or without caulking, then with or without caulking and using some type of flashing behind the joints when not caulking, then to no caulking and using some type of flashing behind the joints (which is where I believe it now is, would need to check to know for sure).

    Regardless, if the above "possibly" items are wrong, the caulking/not caulking will likely not make a big difference.

    Oh, and first is was no WRB required, now a WRB is required.

    Also regardless of and or all of the above, it is obviously and simply installed wrong as the required minimum clearances to items (such as the slab/step was not provided.

    End result is that whether or not there is a manufacturer problem with that siding, there is first and foremost an installation problem. Only after the siding is replaced and those installation practices corrected would the manufacturer step in - and, of course, correcting those installation practices means replacing some area of the siding, probably most of the problematic areas, and that would make the discussion moot as there would now be new material installed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,365

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Score: Hardie 1, Contractor 0

    Lot's of installation problems.... mainly clearance issues and covering the planks with the trim boards. They were on the right track with the z-metal over the top trim board for the most part. Realistically, I can't say the installation problems are causing the paint to fall off but they could be. I see this siding all the time installed in this manner and the paint is not falling off. Nonetheless, it's wrong.


  4. #4
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Did Hardi tell her what was wrong with the installation that was making the paint fall off?


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Like everyone has said, it isn't installed as specified by the manufacturer.

    Read all about it here, including the minimum clearances to flashing, etc.


  6. #6
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    I can't say the installation problems are causing the paint to fall off but they could be. I see this siding all the time installed in this manner and the paint is not falling off. Nonetheless, it's wrong.
    I agree with Jerry and Matt, especially this part.

    Hardi siding can soak up a lot of moisture so I think there is a very good chance that the siding was wet when it was painted, just look at the areas where the paint is peeling, the places you would expect to seethe most saturation after a rain.

    Here is a pdf from hardi dated April 2009, it doesn't cover painting, but it does give you all of the clearances required.

    Edit: I tried to remove the pdf, but I can not, it is the same document that Dom has already posted.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by chris mcintyre; 05-18-2010 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Dom beat me to it!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Ditto on the installation problems.

    Much of the HardiePlank I have seen is factory primed and painted, but "Caulk, paint or prime all field cut edges" is right there in the instructions, as is "Maintain a 1/4" clearance
    between the bottom of James Hardie products and horizontal flashing. Do not caulk gap."

    That would be my $0.02 worth.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    536

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    While Hardie Plank does come from the factory primed, that prime job is usually not very good. I always prime the face and back the planks, along with the edges and ends. Cut ends need to be primed/sealed as well during installation, and a square of WRB should be placed behind any butt joints. Hardie Plank is manufactured with bonded layers, and water can intrude between those layers due to capillary action. If allowed to freeze/thaw in such a condition, failure of the siding is inevitable. As such, sealing/priming/painting all cut ends and exposed edges is critical to the performance of the product.

    Additionally, extra precaution must be taken wherever the planks are installed above a surface that projects beyond the plane of the wall. As you can see on any painted house, the paint is worn away quickest where water is deflected by a surface back onto the siding. Those pieces need extra attention paid to the priming and painting of the face and bottom edge. A second coat of paint here is not a bad idea.

    Based on those pictures, I would suspect the planks were not primed or painted properly, both in terms of surface preparation as well as application. It also appears that a low-quality paint was used or there was an insufficient amount of paint applied.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Cement siding advice

    Bill
    The 1/4" clearance was not maintained. This siding has wicked moisture up from the top of the Z flashing
    This material will readily wick moisture and over time the paint bond will release. t the roof lines the clearance is especially critical as the wicking is even more prevalent.
    here is one that is only five years old.

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    Last edited by Mark Parlee; 06-13-2010 at 11:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
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    469

    Post Re: Cement siding advice

    Bill, she needs to go after the installer. Plain and simple. It is not properly installed.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

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