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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Sugarloaf, PA
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    85

    Default Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    I've attached pics of a cultured stone installation that gives me concern.
    1. I see no flashing or sealant.
    2. I see no mortar bed on the concrete foundation.
    3. I see no mortar between the stones.
    All appears to be inconsistent with the generic (not necessarily this manufacturer's) installation instructions.

    Are my observations/conclusions correct?
    How would you write this in the report?

    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Jon mackay's Avatar
    Jon mackay Guest

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    I'm not an expert at stone veneer but I'm pretty sure that the stone is not supposed to be resting on the window.. yikes.

    It looks like an incomplete job in every picture. I would call it out as improper and tell them to get a contractor in there for estimates for repair / replacement. It is not likely to be a cheap fix.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    I'm not much of a stone expert either, we don't get much of that around here. I have seen that open joint design on houses though. The rear 1/2 or so gets bonded and the front stays open to achieve the look. I looked into once a few years ago for a house. I vaguely remember some fairly technical drainage plane details for the install.
    It doesn't look like that job was done well at all. Beyond the likely technical faults, my big immediate concern would be the lack of joint overlap from row to row (running bond). A lot of the stone joints are either on top of each other or almost from row to row.
    The details around the door, window and corner look pretty sketchy.
    I would definitely punt this one to a stone Pro. Do you know who's stone it is? Maybe call a couple dealers in the area see if you can get an spec manual.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Here is what the NC licensing board has to say about that...

    http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineerin...neerSiding.pdf


    Home Inspection Report & Summary Page recommended language related to incorrect installation of artificial stone siding.

    Background:
    In recent years artificial stone has been used with increased frequency on the exteriors of buildings. In many cases the installation has been found to be improper and not in compliance with the installation instructions of the stone manufacturers. Incorrect installation can result in water penetration, structural damage, and mold growth. The following language is recommended for use by home inspectors with regard to incorrectly installed artificial stone siding. The bulleted items should be used as deemed appropriate for the building inspected.

    Recommended Language:
    Manufactured stone veneer has been installed on the (list areas) of this house. An inspection of the visible components has revealed that the stone veneer has not been installed in compliance with installation guidelines provided by the Masonry Veneer Manufacturer’s Association (MVMA). A PDF copy of the installation guidelines is available at http://www.masonryveneer.org/pdf/mvma030909.pdf.
    Specific problems noted with the visible components include, but may not be limited to: (list all that apply)
    -Weep screeds are missing at the base of the wood frame walls.
    -Weep screeds are missing at the tops of window and door openings.
    -There is no caulk between other materials and the masonry veneer at windows, doors, and adjacent trim.
    -The masonry veneer is in contact with the ground.
    -The masonry veneer is in contact with paved surfaces.
    -The masonry veneer is in contact with roofing materials.
    -Kick-out flashings are missing where roof eaves meet the masonry veneer.
    -Metal lath is visible between stones, indicating that the proper base coats of mortar were not applied prior to installation of the stone.

    The lack of proper detailing and flashing may result in water penetration behind the siding, resulting in structural damage. The installation of the manufactured stone veneer should be evaluated, compared to the specific installation requirements of the stone manufacturer and the MVMA, and repaired or replaced as deemed necessary by a licensed general contractor or masonry contractor experienced with installation requirements for manufactured stone veneer.

    Please note that because the water resistive barrier , metal lath, and base coat(s) of cement stucco are completely concealed behind the manufactured stone veneer, they cannot be evaluated by a visual inspection.

    Standards of Practice/Rules/Interpretations Committee approved: 10/30/09

    NCHILB Board approved: 2/26/10
    Effective Date: 2/26/10

    Gerald W. Canipe
    Chairman
    North Carolina Home Inspector Licensure Board


    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    I've attached pics of a cultured stone installation that gives me concern.
    1. I see no flashing or sealant.
    2. I see no mortar bed on the concrete foundation.
    3. I see no mortar between the stones.
    All appears to be inconsistent with the generic (not necessarily this manufacturer's) installation instructions.

    Are my observations/conclusions correct?
    How would you write this in the report?

    Thanks
    The missing lintel above the window is a major problem.

    It is typical with "lick-n-stick" type stone to see the "Dry Stack" look. This means that you have no mortar between the stones. They are or should be stuck to a screed with or on a mortar bed.

    It is a crappy install.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    The missing lintel above the window is a major problem.
    I beg to differ, because ...

    It is typical with "lick-n-stick" type stone to see the "Dry Stack" look. This means that you have no mortar between the stones. They are or should be stuck to a screed with or on a mortar bed.
    Which means they are "adhered" to the wall and not "stacked" or supported from below, which means they are not bearing on the window, they are simply "stuck" to the wall.

    Now, "how they are stuck" to the wall may be questionable.

    I agree that it is a crappy install as the vertical lines line up instead of being offset, but then, with adhered fake stone, what does it matter ... it is like saying that it is "genuine imitation leather" ... ... or, better yet, that is is genuine imitation Naugahyde, which was (as I recall) the first "imitation leather", making the other product a "genuine" "imitation" imitation leather.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I beg to differ, because ...



    Which means they are "adhered" to the wall and not "stacked" or supported from below, which means they are not bearing on the window, they are simply "stuck" to the wall.

    Now, "how they are stuck" to the wall may be questionable.

    I agree that it is a crappy install as the vertical lines line up instead of being offset, but then, with adhered fake stone, what does it matter ... it is like saying that it is "genuine imitation leather" ... ... or, better yet, that is is genuine imitation Naugahyde, which was (as I recall) the first "imitation leather", making the other product a "genuine" "imitation" imitation leather.
    So are you saying that a metal lintel is not needed on this wall?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    So are you saying that a metal lintel is not needed on this wall?
    That would be correct - as long as that is "adhered" and not "anchored" masonry as that is nothing more than stucco on the structural wall ... the wall is fully self-supporting and needs to lintel for the "exterior wall covering", which is what that fake stone is.

    There are types of fake stone which are stacked and supported from a foundation, THAT type would require a lintel, but not the "adhered" type.

    As can be seen in the photos, there is no supporting foundation, the fake stone is simply adhered to the wall substrate behind it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Cultured Stone - Appears Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by James Risley View Post
    Jerry, the correct terminology for imitation leather is "pleather" which is short for "plastic leather" and Uniroyal first made it in Naugatuck, Conn. and called it Naugahyde.

    Interesting.

    I just always knew it (the original stuff) as Naugahyde ... "pleather" ... is that like 'plethargic'?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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