Thread: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Steven , thanks for the complement. I guess I should start working on my message board manners.
I'm just not sure where to start when it comes to someone that almost daily lies, bashes, even slanders home inspectors from different associations [ on this and other open to the public sites] that do not buy into the bogus certifications and marketing gimmicks that are focused to make the consumer believe, just because a person took an on-line quiz and paid $s to another person, that inspector is now certified and more qualfied to do their inspection.


As far a charging a fee, I agree. The problem I have with that is there are 10-15 other paying venders on this site, none of them jump in a topic and try to sell, or often per lisa give us something for free, when in fact it is not for free.
And NONE of the other venders openingly bash any inspector reguardless what association they choose to support and be a member of.

You mean like you are doing right now and always.
Do a search and find Mr Harris attacking NACHI eveyr time the name is mentioned.
Imagine if someone attacked his business with as much venom.
Makes one wonder what his motivation is???

Originally Posted by Bob Elliott

You mean like you are doing right now and always.
Do a search and find Mr Harris attacking NACHI eveyr time the name is mentioned.
Imagine if someone attacked his business with as much venom.
Makes one wonder what his motivation is???

Ummm Bob.
My motivation ? Try researching your orgs owners name and see how many times you and your fellow members supported him with, YOUR Dues, to bash, lie about, slander and sue ASHI , NAHI and their members.

Heck if you look hard enough you will find your dues went to trying to hijack is site with INSPECTIONEWS.COM and if you go back a little futher you will find he told you to stay away from [per him this nazi site]

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Because it is one of the exceptions I referenced in my post. The course does not cost $365. Membership does, which comes with free, unlimited access to all our inspection courses and all our membership benefits.

I suppose that if you want to attribute a portion of the membership dues to one course, the course would probably cost less than 4 cents.

Lisa,

I don't understand your response.

Are they

A. Certified EIFS Inspectors
or
B. INACHI members that have received a certificate of completion of a EIFS recongnition course?

Check one.

__ A.
__ B.
__ C. Other (add explanation)

Bob,

My opinion of INACHI's course is based upon my relationship with Ron, Dennis. The characters of both of these men are beyond reproach. Their credentials are impeccable. I am proud to have trained with them and the rest of my EDI family. Along with my experience, EDI brought me to the point that I can rely upon my own studies to evaluate many different systems.

I classify Ron and Dennis as scientists. If you are smart, you will try to absorb every word they say. Watch their movies over and over until you understand everything they said.

I only saw the initial introductary segment. It appeared well made, it was professional, informative and accurate. Because of this and more importantly because of my regard for Ron and Dennis; I have no reason to belive that the entire course would be less worthy.

There were a few statements in the seg that bothered me. Before I quote them, I would have to watch the seg again, not now.

INACHI clearly states in the description and SOP; no intrusive inspections and not to determine damage to the structure. I hope that the inspectors that attend this COURSE clearly do the same in their Inspection Agreements. I think that an automatic RECOMMENDATION for an CERTIFIED EIFS INSPECTION should be SOP.

This course is designed for the HOME INSPECTOR that wishes to familiarize themselves with EIFS, and include a cursary inspection in theie service.

Bob, I agree that sometimes it seems like anything that says either INACHI or ASHI starts a war. I find your accessment of Dan amusing. Perhaps if I get the time I'll do the search.

Dan, save me some time, what will I find? Are you in the Guinness Records for the most anti INACHI posts?

Bob, Dan is not always wrong, and sometimes Kool Aid is served.

If INACHI is the only sponser responding to posts on a forum they sponsor... well shame on the other guys. I think it is brilliant for INACHI to have a communications director that is as active as Lisa, and think she is v-e-r-y good at what she does. She holds her own, while others hold theirs.

My opinion of INACHI's course is based upon my relationship with Ron, Dennis. The characters of both of these men are beyond reproach. Their credentials are impeccable. I am proud to have trained with them and the rest of my EDI family. Along with my experience, EDI brought me to the point that I can rely upon my own studies to evaluate many different systems.

I classify Ron and Dennis as scientists. If you are smart, you will try to absorb every word they say. Watch their movies over and over until you understand everything they said.

Thanks Steven. Ron is on staff with me at InterNACHI.

I have not taken the course but have been told that it provides a certification to perform a visual-only inspection of stucco and EIFS. It does not make the student a stucco/EIFS expert, teach the student to do an invasive inspection, teach destructive inspection techniques, or teach the student to use specialized equipment. It is a certification course to teach the student to perform a visual-only inspection. It is approved by many states and organizations.

Dan is not always wrong.

So we're arguing about whether Dan is always wrong or mostly wrong. LOL.

Dan claims that we've sued ASHI and NAHI. I can assure you that he's wrong again and on both counts. We've never sued either.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

So we're arguing about whether Dan is always wrong or mostly wrong. LOL.

Dan claims that we've sued ASHI and NAHI. I can assure you that he's wrong again and on both counts. We've never sued either.

Me wrong ? I sure cannot change a title of a topic on your chat board

NACHI sues PHIC, NAHI Chapter and individual NAHI members personally. - InterNACHI Inspection Forum

I can post 8-10 more if you need more proof, or all you have to do is google law suit nick

OBTW: Has anybody else noticed that 70-80% of nicki certifed from 2-4 years ago that posted on his site, ain't no longer nicki certifed.
If you look at the members here it's like 20-30% that are no longer in business.

I guess that helps explain why Lisa is here begging for $365.00 from members here every chance she can

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

NACHI.TV - Stucco & EIFS Inspection Training and Certification

The course is presented in hi-definition, online video.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

We agree with Steven's position. With few exceptions, an inspector who takes one of our approved inspection courses, passes all the quizzes, and passes its final exam receives a "certificate of completion."

Lisa,

I don't understand your response.

Are they

A. Certified EIFS Inspectors
or
B. INACHI members that have received a certificate of completion of a EIFS recongnition course?

Check one.

__ A.
__ B.
__ C. Other (add explanation)

Lisa + Dan,

I think you guys should get a room.

Lisa, Before we get too far off track, would you please respond to my previous question.

C: InterNACHI-certified, visual-only stucco/EIFS inspector. Such an inspector is particularly trained to visually recognize and report stucco/EIFS problems, but not trained to perform destructive, invasive inspections or use specialized equipment. Ron test ran this stucco/inspection course in a hands-on, classroom setting at our studios and the inspectors' overall opinion at the end of the course indicated that they were somewhat astonished to discover how much they learned. It is our opinion that many home inspectors have never taken an in-depth course specifically dedicated to stucco/EIFS inspections.

If you'd like unlimited free access to the 16 hour, online video course, email fastreply@nachi.org and mention my name.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

Don't complain Scott. If one of the first two knew what they were doing you wouldn't have gotten the job.

Exactly
But...
Scott likes to hear himself complain....

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

It wasn't "unsolicited." Read the quote in my post slower.

Lisa
....give him a break....
lol

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Lisa,

I don't understand your response.

Are they

A. Certified EIFS Inspectors
or
B. INACHI members that have received a certificate of completion of a EIFS recongnition course?

Check one.

__ A.
__ B.
__ C. Other (add explanation)

Steven,

Scott Patterson is suggesting that ALL Inspectors should be able to identify defects with stucco installations.

As Lisa has suggested, NACHI provides an Online Training Module FREE to all.

Please post the Link for the Training Module that ASHI provides...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Seems you guys missed what Scott said:

Not missed a word of it.
What Scott describes is resultant from a "Failed" Branding Concept and Licensing Model.

I am not aware of NACHI Participating in that endeavor.
(Do not fault me, Scott started the demise of this thread from the first post)

Originally Posted by Joseph Hagarty

What Scott describes is resultant from a "Failed" Branding Concept

Joe,

You know that I am in full agreement with what you stated above - that is why I did no renew with ASHI when they crammed that down our throats, and many others did not renew with ASHI for that same reason.

Most of the others went back to ASHI when ASHI pulled their collective heads out of their butts ... while that debacle was going on, I found that I did not need ASHI - so I never looked back at ASHI.

You ALSO know how I feel about InterNACHI and Nick's actions, which are no better than ASHI's actions were then. The difference is that ASHI finally saw the light and DID pull their heads out of their butt holes ... you also know that I have no expectation that Nick will ever see the light.

In my book - and I will take flack for this from some - NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE, so don't go thumping your chest, NEITHER of you have won anything with anyone.

The frosting is gone, but there are some crumbs of the cake on the platter waiting for the last man out to clean them up, turn the lights out when you are done.

Jerry,

No thumping here.
I hear what you are saying.

I did not start this thread.
and I am sure I will not finish it either.....

You know that I am in full agreement with what you stated above - that is why I did not renew with ASHI

Nobody is renewing their membership in ASHI.

NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE, so don't go thumping your chest, NEITHER of you have won anything with anyone.

Let's see. InterNACHI is now a worldwide trade association with operations in 65 countries and nine languages, has published dozens of inspection courses and hundreds of inspection articles, launched a online video training show for inspectors, has over 32,000 members, operates an 820,000+ post inspection message board on a 235,000 page monster website that has attracted nearly 11 million unique visitors, has created hundreds of marketing programs for inspectors, developed the International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Properties, operates a superb website creation system, an online inspection agreement system, a report uploading system, creates custom-designed logos and brochures for its members, offers hundreds of free membership benefits, owns all or part of many of the industry's top vendors, generated 1.8 million of click-thrus to its members' inspection websites, produced a library of 2,000 inspection-related graphics, hosts almost 300 inspection events a year, publishes the best selling inspection-related book with over 500,000 copies sold and 600,000 in print, and has been awarded over 800 government approvals and accreditations for its many inspection courses. Uh, I think InterNACHI is progressing quite well.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Nobody is renewing their membership in ASHI.

Lisa,

You seem to jump on Scott about lying but do not hesitate to lie yourself.

I suspect Scott will respond with a correction ... if Scott feels your post is worthy of his response ... which I am not sure it is.

Let's see. InterNACHI is now a worldwide trade association with operations in 65 countries and nine languages, has published dozens of inspection courses and hundreds of inspection articles, launched a online video training show for inspectors, has over 32,000 members, operates an 820,000+ post inspection message board on a 235,000 page monster website that has attracted nearly 11 million unique visitors, has created hundreds of marketing programs for inspectors, developed the International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Properties, operates a superb website creation system, an online inspection agreement system, a report uploading system, creates custom-designed logos and brochures for its members, offers hundreds of free membership benefits, owns all or part of many of the industry's top vendors, generated 1.8 million of click-thrus to its members' inspection websites, produced a library of 2,000 inspection-related graphics, hosts almost 300 inspection events a year, publishes the best selling inspection-related book with over 500,000 copies sold and 600,000 in print, and has been awarded over 800 government approvals and accreditations for its many inspection courses. Uh, I think InterNACHI is progressing quite well.

You CLEARLY have NO IDEA what I am referring to when I said "NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE".

Joe knows, he and I have met once or twice (I forget which) and have exchanged emails in the past - JOE KNOWS what I am referring to ... YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE.

Originally Posted by Joseph Hagarty

Steven,

Scott Patterson is suggesting that ALL Inspectors should be able to identify defects with stucco installations.

As Lisa has suggested, NACHI provides an Online Training Module FREE to all.

Please post the Link for the Training Module that ASHI provides...

Joseph,

Joseph,

In a perfect world all inspectors would know everything about everything, with no need to recommend a specialist. The complete study of EIFS is a very specific field and is well beyond the scope of a Home Inspection as outlined by ANY organization's or licensing body's SOP.

I look forward to viewing the INACHI's course, and look forward to posting my opinion.
As far as posting the link; it is not mine to post. You should contact Lisa for this information.

I, like Scott (stated in the 1st sentence of this thread) have always been taken back when hearing of a Home Inspector cringing at the very mention of EIFS, and have always thought that every Home Inspector should at the very least be able to inspect EIFS with the same intensity as they would apply to any other cladding they encounter. There is no doubt in my mind that the INACHI course will prepare a HI well beyond that level.

I disagree with the idea that a HI should not refer to an EIFS specialist when they feel it is necessary. Should you feel that way when recommending a HVAC specialist, or electrician, structural engineer, solar panel expert, or whatever? Like Scott, from time to time I receive callers saying their Home Inspector recommended an EIFS inspection by a CERTIFIED EIFS INSPECTOR. What is wrong with that? Is that not the correct thing to do? I feel nothing less than respect for the insight of the inspector, and the client feels nothing less than total appreciation.

I feel that a visual only EIFS inspection is appropriate for a HOME INSPECTION. If the inspection notes something that makes them feel that a specialized inspection is necessary, they should recommend it. I do not feel a visual only inspection is appropriate for an EIFS INSPECTION.

Experience tells me that MANY installations that do no have visually apparent flaws are covering damage due to water intrusion. EVERY EIFS installation should be inspected, ESPECIALLY those installed on wood. There can be (and are) problems with installations not on wood. I feel that every EIFS installation merits a full and complete inspection, with EIFS on wood; it is crucial..

The problem is with semantics. Since this course is specifically designed for, and is a statement of qualifications for a Home Inspector doing HOME INSPECTIONS, I see no reason to question the course as intended and within its parameters. The title CERTIFIED EIFS INSPECTOR infers to the innocent that the holder is qualified to provide full/complete/pertinent information when doing an EIFS INSPECTION.

INACHI and other associations clearly post the intent and limitations of their certifications. I recommend all holders of this (or any) certification to follow suit, including within their inspection agreements and reports.

Lisa,

Pardon the delay in responding to your last post. I have been so busy these past few days, and have not seen a break.

Lisa,

Your statement is not accurate and does nothing more that feed the sickening bashing cycle. You are a professional, and I would have much more respect if you were to challenge Jerry by asking him what he means. He is a very intelligent man, and I'm sure he will not respond with worthless banter.

If you know what he is referring to, I'm sure you could respond as well.

If one cannot tell the difference between EIFS and regular stucco they ain't a professional home inspector. What is truly discouraging is how a simple statement by one of our highly respected professional home inspectors degenerated into such ridiculous promotional drum beating nonsense from a home inspector association’s paid shill? Her stats are without doubt the most amusing I’ve ever seen posted on any BB.

Lisa
You are like a JW.
I first admired them for their dedication and effort.
However I've heard it enough to know it's not for me.
But they keep knocking on my door.
Now I just don't even open the door to them at all because they are intrusive and obnoxious.

I repeat. I have known and do know a very large amount of CEOs Presidents, Vice presidents, communication directors of companies from Rebock and other huge corporations as well as tiny companies.

I have never see a communications director or any other corporate member get involved in scraps with the snickering and irritation of trying to sell their corporation in my entire life.

The actions from any of the large or small corporations from one of their employees would have been heavily chastised or they would have removed such a person for embarrassment reasons long long long ago and hired a more professional corporation member. Especially one with the title

Communications director

I also state that I would join InterNachi once again just for full access to the website and all materials after I "PAID" for the right. Not because I got it for free. If this person and other particular actions ceased from the corporation. This form of advertising where everything is put out there as free after paying for it is the lowest form of draw any company can put forth.

35,000 members worldwide at over 30 a piece. No. I would certainly never put forth that they are getting the information for free.

12,250,000.00 a year and that is not scratching the surface of all the kick backs from all the vendors/

You better dam well be constantly adding web pages and information and classes for your members.

I wonder how much of the 12.5 Lisa is getting? Some how me thinks, not very much.

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

If one cannot tell the difference between EIFS and regular stucco they ain't a professional home inspector. What is truly discouraging is how a simple statement by one of our highly respected professional home inspectors degenerated into such ridiculous promotional drum beating nonsense from a home inspector association’s paid shill? Her stats are without doubt the most amusing I’ve ever seen posted on any BB.

Jerry, I agree with much of what you are saying, but disagree with the use of the word "degenerated". This topic is very important to some (me) and I appreciate the discussion. I hope the thread does not degenerate into the same old, boring, useless,and worthless association bashing.

As far as ridiculous drum beating nonsense from a home inspector association paid shill. If you are referring to me, you are wrong. I am not a member of any home inspector association, nor am I anybody's paid shill. Any opinion I have offered is honest. If there is anything that I stated that is rhetoric or factually inaccurate, please bring it to my attention.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Jerry, I agree with much of what you are saying, but disagree with the use of the word "degenerated". This topic is very important to some (me) and I appreciate the discussion. I hope the thread does not degenerate into the same old, boring, useless,and worthless association bashing.

As far as ridiculous drum beating nonsense from a home inspector association paid shill. If you are referring to me, you are wrong. I am not a member of any home inspector association, nor am I anybody's paid shill. Any opinion I have offered is honest. If there is anything that I stated that is rhetoric or factually inaccurate, please bring it to my attention.

He was referring to someone else Steven

"Her stats are without doubt the most amusing I’ve ever seen posted on any BB." You don't look like a her to me Steven.

Ted, I think you dropped half a million off that gross income figure and probably the reason the owner can't afford a decent haberdashery? Anyone ever notice his arm is always around the shoulders of the person he is posed with in the photos they publish??? (creepy)

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

"Her stats are without doubt the most amusing I’ve ever seen posted on any BB." You don't look like a her to me Steven.

Ted, I think you dropped half a million off that gross income figure and probably the reason the owner can't afford a decent haberdashery? Anyone ever notice his arm is always around the shoulders of the person he is posed with in the photos they publish??? (creepy)

Thank you for the clarification.

Jerry writes without elaborating

You CLEARLY have NO IDEA what I am referring to when I said "NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE".

That is correct. I have no idea what you are referring to. I tried to predict what you meant and reply by posting stats about InterNACHI, an appropriate response to someone who says we are not what we could be. But you're right, I have no idea what you really mean. I would expect a statement like yours to be followed by an explanation of what it is you think we "could be" but you didn't tell us what you mean.

Steven wisely advises

You are a professional, and I would have much more respect if you were to challenge Jerry by asking him what he means. He is a very intelligent man, and I'm sure he will not respond with worthless banter.

OK. Mr. Peck, what do you mean?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE,

Lisa,

In the case of InterNACHI, that refers to a long list of items, including, but not limited to:
- an organization in which its members have control of the association and that the association is member-owned and operated
- an organization in which its members decide where the money goes, the members, through a board of directors, pays for the staff, not one where the owner pays for whatever the owner wants to pay for
- an organization in which its members main purpose of life is NOT feeling a compulsion to bash other associations
- an organization in which its members pass a meaningful proctored exam, not a internet based 'my dog can pass this exam and register as a member' - various pets have passed your exam and registered as members
- an organization in which its members main purpose is to learn more and promote more knowledge, and not to be given "Certified Blah-Blah-Blah' titles which have no real meaning
- an organization in which the purpose of the organization is to promote home inspections and home inspectors, not to promote 'feel-good' meaningless "certifications"
- an organization of which the owner missed a great opportunity to make great strides toward advancing its professionalism and lose it joke stance during another organizations blunder into "branding"
- an organization which is there to promote professionalism of the profession, not one which promotes meaningless "certifications" as though there was some substance to them (even you admit that the "certifications" are "marketing" gimmicks which draw in people seeking a highly qualified home inspector and instead are drawn to the "certifications" given without merit
- an organization which ... there are too many items to list, the owner created a great marketing plan to get rich by, and many home inspectors fell for that plan, and the owner started cranking out "certifications" for anything it feels will help with drawing unsuspecting home buyers into using inspectors with those "certifications"

If you want respectability, Nick (the owner of the organization) would need to give up the ownership and give full ownership of the organization to a duly elected (not appointed) board of directors and that board of directors would have the full power to do what is in the best interests of the organization and its members ... however, that would leave Nick, and you, out in the cold as I doubt any seriously elected board of directors would hire Nick and his crew to run the show ... but then, I could be wrong.

I suspect that there are a lot of good inspectors who belong to your (Nick's) organization and who would make good and capable leaders, inspectors who see the benefit in being professional and acting professional, and either do away with the meaningless "certifications" or make the "certifications" meaningful, and that would start with voiding all existing "certifications". There are also many members whom I believe are there only for the easy-to-get "certifications" and would leave if they had to take the effort to attain a meaningful level of knowledge for a proper "certification".

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

"Her stats are without doubt the most amusing I’ve ever seen posted on any BB." You don't look like a her to me Steven.

Ted, I think you dropped half a million off that gross income figure and probably the reason the owner can't afford a decent haberdashery? Anyone ever notice his arm is always around the shoulders of the person he is posed with in the photos they publish??? (creepy)

Hey, once you get to the 12,000,000,00 mark does anyone really count anymore The figure, I am sure , Is quite beyond that point anyway once you tally it all up.

The non profit org was blown out the window a very long time ago.

Jerry Peck nailed it.

Now can we move on?

There you go again Jerry, with another half post. You claim that a certification based on coursework, coursework that has been awarded over 800 government approvals including from your state of Florida, is "meaningless." But you failed to explain what a meaningful certification would be based on, if not education and training. Can you tell us?

Perhaps you are suggesting we get rid of our entrance requirements altogether, get rid of all our many robust courses, quizzes, and exams, close down our online, video training, tell all the subject-matter experts we no longer need them, stop publishing in-depth articles on inspection topics, stop developing inspection textbooks, DVDs and field guides and instead, have an online application that asks for nothing more than a credit card number and then just issue our highest certification for passing one beginner's exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school? Oh wait, there is already a "society" that does that. LOL.

as I doubt any seriously elected board of directors would hire Nick and his crew to run the show ... but then, I could be wrong.

Yeah, you cold be wrong. I often I arrive at the office to find high-priced headhunters outside the door, waiting to try to convince Nick to go work for their organization.

This propaganda message was brought to you by Nachi.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Lisa,

You CLEARLY have NO IDEA what I am referring to when I said "NEITHER of those associations are what they COULD BE".

Jerry, although in my opinion, your list was posted in a rhetorical fashion. That does not mean that many of your opinions do not mirror some of my own. But, to be honest, most of my opinions are based upon hearsay, and I have no personal first hand knowledge about many of them.

I agree about the worth of non proctored testing and the danger of easy certifications


You mentioned another organization that is not all it could be. Is there a complaint list related to the other organization? Since you posted a INACHI specific opinion complaint list, Please post the other list, of course please include the name. This way we may discuss it with the same intensity.

Hopefully we can have some valuable fact filled, discussion based on facts, without rhetoric, banter, or vulgarity.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Jerry, although in my opinion, your list was posted in a rhetorical fashion. That does not mean that many of your opinions do not mirror some of my own. But, to be honest, most of my opinions are based upon hearsay, and I have no personal first hand knowledge about many of them.

My knowledge is first hand ... a few other inspectors and I allowed Nick suck us into thinking he would actually allow us to propose some needed changes to his organization and that he would actually consider what was proposed; instead he allowed his followers to claim that we were trying to "take over" that organization. As I recall, not even once did Nick step up to the plate and admit asking us to do what we did. First and foremost, the meaningless process to get a "CMI" would have been replaced with a regime of requirements before an inspector could consider themselves as having earned any title with the word "master" in it - but I digress, this post is about the second organization, I am just explaining my knowledge of why I posted what I posted.

You mentioned another organization that is not all it could be. Is there a complaint list related to the other organization? Since you posted a INACHI specific opinion complaint list, Please post the other list, of course please include the name. This way we may discuss it with the same intensity.

The other organization is, quite obviously, ASHI.
- That organization could be much better than it is, however, the list would not be as easy to list as the organization with the previous list has made few, if any, changes since that time mentioned above, while the above organization has made some changes, and I have not been associated with that organization since the branding fiasco.
- I can tell you that, at the time, that organization had a forum similar to this one and it was a useful place for banter and the exchange information, however a group who only wanted to hear what they were saying inserted a moderator to keep others opinions squelched down. That moderator did not like my rebuttals to some of the other members, members of the "in group", so he banned me for 30 days - but here is the part that really turned me off on that organization: the moderator admitted, in a post on that forum, that what I said really was not that bad, that he banned me "because he could" ... I repeat ... "because he could" ... no other reason than he had been given that power and he wanted to use it. In my opinion, any moderator who does that should have immediately become "the former moderator" and have been replaced with someone who could separate their personal wants from that of the position.
- However, the attitude of that moderator was the same attitude of those in power in this organization, and is why this organization went headfast into the branding campaign, even though it was advised that many members would not renew if this was done ... and many members did not renew because that was done.
- This organization was supposed to be run for the benefit of its members, not for the benefit of those in power who insisted this would help "the association" when they meant that it would help themselves.
- This organization eventually had its head handed to them on a platter and changed (dropped entirely?) that branding marketing effort. In the meantime, it lost many good inspectors.
- This organization could look at Nick's marketing tactics and apply some of that marketing savvy to their marketing, staying away from things like the branding fiasco - they should develop free educational resources available online to all home inspectors, this could be used to entice non-members to join that organization.
- This organization chooses to try to market itself because it is better, but fails (in my opinion) to actually offer things which make them "better" than the previously mentioned 'other organization'.
- There are, I have no doubt, many other issues I could think back to and bring up, however, this organization has made 'some' changes and at least one of those changes has been for the good.
- Knowing how this organization operates, there would need to be a huge change in the attitudes of the inspectors running the organization to effectuate positive changes. I respect several of the members who have, and may still, help run this organization - specifically Scott Patterson and Jack Feldman. If West Coast Jerry was one of those who served on committees, etc., then WC Jerry is at the top of the list of respected inspectors who helped run this organization. As I recall, WC Jerry was instrumental in helping CRIEA become what it is (his state organization).

If need be, I will add to the above in a few days.

Referencing ASHI Jerry writes

This organization could look at Nick's marketing tactics and apply some of that marketing savvy to their marketing, staying away from things like the branding fiasco - they should develop free educational resources available online to all home inspectors

Uh, I think there already exists an association that utilizes Nick's marketing savvy, doesn't spend member's money on branding itself, and offers free educational resources online. It's called InterNACHI.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

.. That is correct. I have no idea what you are referring to. I tried to predict what you meant and reply by posting stats about InterNACHI, an appropriate response to someone who says we are not what we could be. But you're right, I have no idea what you really mean. I would expect a statement like yours to be followed by an explanation of what it is you think we "could be" but you didn't tell us what you mean.

Steven wisely advises OK. Mr. Peck, what do you mean?

Lisa,

Many years ago (2001),
NACHI was working to develop how we would move forward.
There were various Committees looking at many ideas.
Jerry (if I recall correctly) was active in one of the NACHI development committees.

Back in 2001, the direction was narrowed to 2 alternatives.
Jerry & I shared one of those visions for the NACHI Organization.

Our shared vision was not popular. The alternative was selected......

And NACHI is what it is today.

While different, many components were incorporated within both visions with Education being one of the most important factors.
Gerry Beaumont worked tirelessly to put the initial educational offerings into place. He was truly a driving force in getting NACHI to where they are today in Education.


Moving forward, I am certain that improvements will continually be made just as they have over the last 10 Years that I have been affiliated with NACHI.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Referencing ASHI Jerry writes Uh, I think there already is an association out there that utilizes Nick's marketing savvy, avoids spending money on branding the association, and offers free educational resources online. It's called InterNACHI.

Yeah, and it is also the association with the joke certifications ... sheesh, don't you even read the posts?

Get your organization's act together and become respectable like the other organization, or maybe the other organization will gets their act together and offer the other things your organization does - THEN there could be a really good national organization for home inspectors.

Until then, there will be nothing but continued squabbling and name calling back and forth ... and THAT is really sad and makes BOTH appear to be juveniles.

Sheesh, Lisa, grow up.

You don't even realize that you are an obvious contributor to what is wrong with your organization.

There you go again Jerry, another half post. You claim that a certification based on coursework, coursework that has been awarded over 800 government approvals including from your state of Florida, is a "joke " But you failed to explain what you would use to offer meaningful certification. Can you tell us all what you would base certification on? Inquiring minds want to know.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

There you go again Jerry, another half post. You claim that a certification based on coursework, coursework that has been awarded over 800 government approvals including from your state of Florida, is a "joke " But you failed to explain what you would use to offer meaningful certification. Can you tell us all what you would base certification on? Inquiring minds want to know.

Lisa,
Give up on this post.
You do not have the information to accordingly respond.
Debating Jerry Peck (who knows the information that you do not)
puts you at a disadvantage.

Tommorrow another day
and another battle to be won....

Me......
(I digress)
I am helping to bury a very good friend tomorrow...
A Strong influence in my Business and Life for many years.

About OATS index.htm

John Stevenson, Registered Architect.



Rest in Peace.....

Lisa replying? I think its Nick using Lisa as a medium to get his tireless, broken message across. Fortunately there are enough of us who know how Nachi works behind the scenes.

Anybody wanting a CMI, save your money its nothing but a marketing scheme without any validation.

How about at the very minimum, proctored tests. Preferably classroom and proctored tests but classroom is not always an option unless offered locally in various places in every state. Most cannot travel around the country or to Vegas or Florida or where ever a national even is held. I am not talking about going to a meeting and someone has a talk on the subject and everyone walks out with that certification.

CLass room or at the least real study courses and proctored test. I am even guilty of taking a class and at the end walking out, with no testing, and having a certificate in hand for the class and cont ed points. Were they decent classes, yes. Was there any study involved at all, no. Keep you eyes open as they went on, walk out with CE points.

Not quite the same as real study and proctored tests.

Most meaningful certification programs and certifying groups/agencies are part of and have their programs approved and follow the guidelines of ICE > Home. It is not really all that costly, you just have to meet specific requirements and be able to document everything.

I belive Nick was trying to go through ICE/NCCA for some of his programs and his own certifications, he said that they hired a consultant to work on it. That was a couple of years ago, I have no idea if they proceeded with it or what happened. Nick was bragging about this at one of the confrences he was attending and on his site.

The important part of any certification program is that it is meaningful and that it is not driven to only make a profit. Just being approved by a bureaucratic state agency does not mean anything other than it meets that states guidelines for the approval process. ICE/NCCA have specific rules that have been adopted as the standard for certification programs around the world.Accredited Certification Programs

CORRECTION:

I've just been informed that I've been giving out an incorrect stat regarding InterNACHI's inspection courses. I've been saying that InterNACHI's inspection courses have been awarded 800 government approvals and accreditations. This number is incorrect and I apologize for the error.

Scott,

Are ASHI courses ICE approved, and tests proctored?

Lisa,

Are INACHI (all or any) courses approved by ICE (sounds like a spy agency)?

What is INACHI's position on having proctored testing? Personally, I think it's a great idea, and would add to the recognition of the certification.



To all,

If INACHI courses were ICE approved, and if the testing was professionally proctored, do you think it would put an end the validity issues that some have, with the hopes of putting an end to at least this portion of the squabble? Or is there nothing INACHI can do that will satisfy the naysayers?


.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

CORRECTION:

I've just been informed that I've been giving out an incorrect stat regarding InterNACHI's inspection courses. I've been saying that InterNACHI's inspection courses have been awarded 800 government approvals and accreditations. This number is incorrect and I apologize for the error.

800, 80, or 8000, no one here really cares.
Except for Dan, and the guy that likes to argue with him.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Scott,
To all,

If INACHI courses were ICE approved, and if the testing was professionally proctored, do you think it would put an end the validity issues that some have, with the hopes of putting an end to at least this portion of the squabble? Or is there nothing INACHI can do that will satisfy the naysayers?
.

No it would not. There is more than having your education verified, properly run associations have proper discipline procedures, defined conflict of interest rules, bylaws, voting, financial statements. You cannot have one while ignoring the other requirement of a credible association in my learned experience. Nachi has none of these.

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

800, 80, or 8000, no one here really cares.
Except for Dan, and the guy that likes to argue with him.

That is nonsense. We have seen no proof of anything other then numbers which are unverifiable, and other inflated unverifiable claims.

Its a private marketing association which cannot back up its so called certification titles by recognized industry certification process such as ICE.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

No it would not. There is more than having your education verified, properly run associations have proper discipline procedures, defined conflict of interest rules, bylaws, voting, financial statements. You cannot have one while ignoring the other requirement of a credible association in my learned experience. Nachi has none of these.

Do you feel the same way about ASHI? (refer to Jerry's list).

Steve,

I can only answer having been an ASHI member, that ASHI is what Nachi is not. And also being a member of the Canadian equivalent.

It has a certification in place accredited by ICE
It has membership voting.
It has policies.
It has financial disclosure
Proctored exams
Audited inspection review and CEU
It has bylaws
It has a discipline process overseen by a proper functioning committee
It does not have any conflicts of interest, particularly its Ethics and Standards Committee.
Its leaders do not run around making unfounded idiotic remarks about the other associations.
It is not in the habit of issuing certifications as gifts, giveaways or free memberships as promotional items.
It has an independent management team, and elected membership BOD.
It has accounting to the membership.

That's my list I am sure there are other differences.

That's my list I am sure there are other differences.

There sure are! LOL

InterNACHI has entrance requirements, membership benefits, inspector marketing programs, government-approved inspection courses, inspection business success tools, I could go on forever. You can't seriously be trying to compare InterNACHI with any of the smaller associations, are you?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

There sure are! LOL

InterNACHI has entrance requirements, membership benefits, inspector marketing programs, government-approved inspection courses, inspection business success tools, I could go on forever. You can't seriously be trying to compare InterNACHI with any of the smaller associations, are you?

Those are not tangible accreditation properties.
Its leaders do not run around making unfounded idiotic remarks about the other associations.
Better get Nick to write a retort.

Those are not tangible accreditation properties.

Tell it to the US EPA and HUD.

Then tell these organizations that they are all wrong for approving InterNACHI's inspection courses.

Alabama Building Commission
Alaska Department of Commerce Community and Economic Development, Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing, Home Inspector Program
Alberta Government, Service Alberta
American Council for Accredited Certification (ACAC)
Arkansas Home Inspector Registration Board
California Department of Pesticide Regulation
Colorado Department of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry
Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Delaware Department of Agriculture, Pesticide Compliance
Delaware State Housing Authority
Environmental Protection Agency
Florida Construction Industry Licensing Board (CILB)
Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR)
Florida Department of Financial Services
Georgia Department of Agriculture
IAC2
Idaho Department of Agriculture
Indiana Real Estate Commission, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, Division of Professional Regulation*
InterNACHI
International Distance Education Certification Center
Kansas Home Inspectors Registration Board
Kentucky Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction, Board of Home Inspectors
Kentucky Public Protection Cabinet Office of Occupations and Professions Board of Home Inspectors
Louisiana State Board of Home Inspectors
Maine Department of Agriculture, Food & Rural Resources, Board of Pesticides Control
Maryland Department of Agriculture, Office of Plant and Pest Management
Massachusetts Department of Agricultural Resources
Master Inspector Certification Board
Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth
Mississippi Home Inspector Board
Missouri Real Estate Commission
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division 2
Mountain Metro Association of REALTORs
National Environmental Health Association (NEHA)
Nevada Department of Agriculture
Nevada Department of Business and Industry, Real Estate Division
New Hampshire Home Inspector Licensing Board
New Jersey Office of the Attorney General, Division of Consumer Affairs, State Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, Home Inspection Advisory Committee
New Mexico Department of Agriculture
New York State, Bureau of Educational Standards
North Dakota Secretary of State
City of Toledo, Ohio
Ohio Department of Agriculture
Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Real Estate & Professional Licensing
Oklahoma Department of Agriculture
Oklahoma State Department of Health, Occupational Licensing Division, Committee of Home Inspector Examiners
Oregon Construction Contractors Board
Oregon Department of Agriculture
Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture
Rhode Island Division of Agriculture
South Carolina and Clemson University Department of Pesticide Regulation
South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation, Residential Builders Commission
South Dakota Real Estate Commission
Tennessee Department of Agriculture
Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Division of Regulatory Boards, Home Inspector Licensing Division
Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC)
U.S. EPA
Utah Department of Agriculture
Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food and Markets
Virginia Board of Asbestos, Lead, Mold and Home Inspectors
Virginia Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation
Washington State Department of Agriculture
Washington State Home Inspector Advisory Licensing Board of the Department of Licensing
West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety, State Fire Marshal's Office
Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing
Wyoming Real Estate Commission
Wyoming Department of Agriculture

That isn't even the entire list of organizations that approve InterNACHI's inspection courses.

Here is another organization that accepts InterNACHI's inspection courses. ASHI

Big deal - they okay your education, but that is not acknowledging Nachi as a certification entity.

Too bad you are continuing to spin a story supplied by your employer.

Strangely you keep over looking what makes and gives an association credibility. I expect to read more dissertation skirting the truth from you, but then again I expect no less from Nachi in order to promote itself with lies.

Ray,

I agree and VALUE everything in your post #112.

ASHI is ASHI, INACHI is INACHI.
INACHI is not ASHI, ASHI is not INACHI.
If you like ASHI join ASHI
If you like INACHI, join INACHI
Join both
Join neither

Each person that joins either does so for their own reasons, and some join both.
Obviously, even with all the dislikes of either org, there seems to be quite a few folks that like what each is offering, as reflected by the membership numbers.

I have no personal connection with either association, nor do I wish to. Not because I think that they have nothing to offer, but because I am turned off by the bantering.

I don't think membership in either org is a guarenttee of ability, nor do I think membership in either is an indication of lack of fitness.

As an outsider looking in, sometimes I get the feeling that a certain amount of jealosy of NICK, and of what he has built, Jealosy of ASHI and the high standard it has set, and also feel that many feel threatened by the others existence.

What bothers me the most is that there cannot cannot be a conversation that does not end up turning into a feud between and/or about orgs.

I have friends that are members of both orgs. I don't see why any of them should be denied the right to live in peace and pride of who they are or what they do. Do you know any INACHI members? Are ANY of them worthy inspectors. Do you think that there are ANY worthy INACHI member inspectors anywhere?

I can't understand why a INACHI member can't pop his head out of the grass without it turning into a "my father can beat up your father" event.

If my friend the inspector, who is a good inspector, was a member of ASHI for years decided for his own reasons to join INACHI, is he now a bad inspector?

Ray, go whine about it to the organizations listed in post #116.

In Illinois we take NACHI courses and to get State CE's we go through the normal proctoring process.
Many members of ASHI,NAHI take them along side NACHI members.

My local NACHI chapter gives live education with Instructors and a test afterwards.

The fee is half what others charge including ASHI so why is that?

Tests ,tests, tests,and have little to do with business success or excellence gentleman.

Licensed Contractors take tests,pass and they are somehow better? lol
Buildings pass code and get written up by me all the time.

The market decides in the long run.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Ray, go whine about it to the organizations listed in post #116.

Lisa if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

You haven't provided any information other than Nachi is recognized for its education. That is fine, that is not what is being disputed, and never was.

When you can provide proper befitting accurate info please come back I am not easily impressed by bull and will call a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lisa if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

You haven't provided any information other than Nachi is recognized for its education. That is fine, that is not what is being disputed, and never was.

When you can provide proper befitting accurate info please come back I am not easily impressed by bull and will call a spade a spade.

Ray you are not stupid and nether are most here.
NACHI is closer to being run like a private business than the other associations and we all know private business usually does a better job.

Business will always shout from the roof tops.

We just had our annual online Christmas party where Nick gives out tons of prizes most years but I bet the others do not.
There is no dispute you get more for your money as a member of NACHI or (interNachi) for you newbies.

Thats fine if that is what you want from your association. However as I repeatedly point out there are other disconcerting issues which are affecting Nachi and the members stature. If everyone wishes to overlook those issues that is fine, but no one should think that because other good things exist within Nachi do not cancel out the other legitimate concerns.

All the best Bob, to you and yours.

Originally Posted by Bob Elliott

We just had our annual online Christmas party

Did you get drunk?
Is Lisa a good dancer?

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Did you get drunk?

I guess an online Christmas party is the best place to have a Christmas party if you were to get drunk. Cuts way down on the drinking and driving.

On a more serious note. What is this world coming to? I am not quite sure I love the idea of online this and that aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand even an online Christmas party.

Not sure Santa would be impressed.

Originally Posted by Bob Elliott

Ray you are not stupid and nether are most here.
NACHI is closer to being run like a private business than the other associations and we all know private business usually does a better job.

Business will always shout from the roof tops.

We just had our annual online Christmas party where Nick gives out tons of prizes most years but I bet the others do not.
There is no dispute you get more for your money as a member of NACHI or (interNachi) for you newbies.

Bob

It is a private business. The company is making staggering profits. The write offs are needed.

Ted,

Are you anywhere near Austin?

I'll be there for classes 2 weeks in Feb.

Maybe we can go to a rodeo.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Did you get drunk?
Is Lisa a good dancer?

I met the all the gorgeous intelligent ladies of NACHI and Lisa is part of that group.
Just shows Nick does something right.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Bob

It is a private business. The company is making staggering profits. The write offs are needed.

Maybe so but to my benefit.
Guess capitalism is not such a bad thing after all even though I just took a test posted over there that says I am 48% capitalist and 52% socialist.

Any NACHI members over here get back as Nick is still playing Santa.