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  1. #1
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    Default Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I get so aggravated when I get a call from a buyer saying that their inspector does not inspect Stucco or EIFS. So now the buyer has to hire me for more than what they paid for their full home inspection! We all need to know how to look at EIFS and Stucco, it is our job!

    This morning I had this type of inspection, but the home had been inspected by 2 home inspectors! The first inspector was hired by the owner for a Pre-Listing inspection. This was some type of inspection that was marketed by INACHI, he even had a sign for it ( it was in the garage). This inspector said that the home was a Hybrid PB EIFS home. Anyway it was done 6 months ago and that inspector is no longer in business.

    On to the second inspection! This was done last week.. The inspector told the buyer that the home was an EIFS home and that he did not inspect EIFS so they need to have an inspector who specializes in EIFS to take a look at it.

    So, this is how I come into the picture.

    Enter Stage Right! I drove up the drive and parked. Took off my sunglasses and the first thing I see are control joints all over the structure. I walk up to the wall and wrap my knuckles on it. It sounds like a solid piece of concrete! I remove an intercom speaker cover and low and behold I find concrete and metal lath! It is a Stucco home! It took me 10 minutes to do all of this. Next I started to look at the problems. No header flashing over the wood windows, that were rotting & No diverter flashing at roof to wall joinings. I found moisture in the interior walls under the windows with a Tramex ME. Even found soft drywall and rotting baseboards.

    None of this was found or reported by the two home inspectors! It is not rocket science by any means, nor did it take me any time to find the damage on the drywall or baseboards. Granted the rotting wood windows had been painted and were a little harder to see.

    I say all of this in hopes that with the vast number of new folks entering our profession that you need to learn about all exterior cladding's that can be found on a home. Take a special class and learn, it will save you down the road!

    Off Soap Box......

    Here are some pics
    The first is a closeup of the stucco plaster and you can see the wire lath that was cut for the speaker hold.
    The second is a closeup of the same location
    The third is the shack.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    We have the same problem here - inspectors shy away from stucco. Of those that do try to tackle stucco many of them are not familiar enough with it.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I think it's laziness, an idea that they should never exceed SOPs, and a resistance to expanding their knowledge base. Not everybody takes their profession seriously.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Don't complain Scott. If one of the first two knew what they were doing you wouldn't have gotten the job.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I agree that a Home Inspector should be able to tell the difference between EIFS, Stucco, Stone veneer, Vinyl siding, Brick, and any other cladding. There are certain faults that are very common that should also be recongnizable. An inspector that does not specialize in this type of work and does not recommend a full inspection, or makes a client think that he did a full inspection, can be dangerous.

    EIFS, Stucco, and Stone veneer require an inspection that goes beyond the normal home inspection... especially when they are installed on a wooden structure. Although a superficial inspection of these claddings could be done during the course of a normal home inspection, I can't see how a complete inspection could be done at the same time. A home inspection on an average house takes me about 3-4 hours. An EIFS inspection on the same home takes about the same time.

    Also, when you are doing this type of inspection (a real inspection) YOU ARE THE EXPERT! Or should be, anyway. There is no more recommending that another expert be called in to verify what appears to be, or to prescribe a fix. You also have to be prepared to face off with builders and/or installers. When you find a problem, which you almost always do, you must be prepared to prescribe a fix. In most cases a fix does not mean to simply report "get it fixed". A REAL EIFS/Stucco inspector will prescribe a retrofit that will prevent the problem from reoccuring. You can't simply quote manufacturer's specifications and walk away thinking you did your job.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 07-20-2010 at 05:47 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    It might be a regional thing to some extent. In my area I see maybe 2 true concrete stucco houses a year and about the same number of EIFS houses a year. There used to be a lot more EIFS but we had an extremely high failure rate (another regional thing I imagine). So much so that it's actually not allowed to be installed on residential structures anymore.

    So, with all that being said, I don't feel I'm an expert at all. I don't see enough of it to become familiar and I just can't see investing the time to become an expert in something that is so rare in my area.

    Now, of course I can tell the difference between the true stuff and the synthetic in about 3 seconds so IMO that's inexcusable for an inspector to not know. And, I still inspect the exterior and look for signs of damage and report on them. I just put a sizeable note in the report that concealed damage is common.

    The thing I'm struggling with lately is all the boasting by listing agents and sellers that their EIFS is the "new" type and "not the bad type" - This has been the case on the last few EIFS I've seen and I just don't buy it. I've found big cracks with water trails around windows and doors and other clear signs of problems.

    Just curious.... how much stucco/EIFS do you guys in other parts of the country encounter? Maybe as a % of houses you see?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    The problem is not inspectors who do not know stucco/EIFS. it is clients who don't ask the right questions before hiring one. If the client wanted an inspection report to cover the exterior cladding, then ASK the potential HI if he is qualified to render that opinion before he is hired.
    The incompetant HI's would fade away if the clients would educate themselves a little.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Carroll: Maybe some of the fault lies with the inspectors themselves. Upon receiving a call from a prospective client, it behooves the inspector to ask many questions. Some of those might be, for example, "do you know what type of exterior cladding is on the house?", et al. While many clients may not know what type of cladding is on the house, an inspector could at that time state that he/she is not competent to inspect stucco claddings, if that is his or her belief.

    Unless Mr. Patterson is performing these rudimentary inspections for free, I have to wonder why he is complaining about the situation.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    The problem is not inspectors who do not know stucco/EIFS. it is clients who don't ask the right questions before hiring one. If the client wanted an inspection report to cover the exterior cladding, then ASK the potential HI if he is qualified to render that opinion before he is hired.
    The incompetant HI's would fade away if the clients would educate themselves a little.
    John,

    I disagree.

    Is inspecting the exterior cladding an add on option in your contract?

    What happened to the "GENERALIST" theory? A HI should be enough of an "EXPERT GENERALIST" to identify anything included in his contract/license/State SOP, and to recommend a "SPECIALIST" when they see something that goes beyond their SOP.

    The client should not have to test the inspector. They hire us because they don't know how to inspect a house. HI's should be able to do what they advertise.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 07-20-2010 at 06:32 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Franson View Post
    Mr. Carroll: Maybe some of the fault lies with the inspectors themselves. Upon receiving a call from a prospective client, it behooves the inspector to ask many questions. Some of those might be, for example, "do you know what type of exterior cladding is on the house?", et al. While many clients may not know what type of cladding is on the house, an inspector could at that time state that he/she is not competent to inspect stucco cladding's, if that is his or her belief.

    Unless Mr. Patterson is performing these rudimentary inspections for free, I have to wonder why he is complaining about the situation.
    I guess I'm fussing about it because it kind of paints a bad picture of the inspection profession. I'm getting paid and paid fairly well for what I'm doing. I'm very involved in our profession, and I just see it as another flaw with the training and our professions SOP's. If you are going to inspect a home then inspect the home, especially the most important part of it.

    I just see too many inspectors taking the easy way out and disclaiming that they do not inspect X and you need to hire an expert. The don't even attempt to learn or expand their knowledge base on what is a fairly common product. I do not mind being the expert, I worked hard to earn my knowledge and reputation, but my expertise is not always needed on so many of the homes I look at.

    As for the "New" EIFS..... It is still crap if it is installed wrong. Two of the major problems of the first generation EIFS was that it was a very technical product to install and it did not have a WRB (house wrap, felt, etc.).

    With the Second generation EIFS, it is still a very technical product to install but it does have a WRB so that is a plus. You still need all of the detailed flashing and joints at windows and penetrations. Nothing has really changed in that department, and guess what is still left out on so many of the installs!

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 07-20-2010 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Spellin... :)
    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Scott, you hit right on a nerve.

    I was at a training seminar over the weekend that concentrated very heavily on moisture and its effects on buildings. It basically ignored "code" requirements and industry standards and instead got into the science of moisture. A couple of people there made comments that the presentation was too advanced and was not what they really wanted to hear about.

    But for those of us who have been around the block a time or two this was an absolutely excellent program. As the speaker said, the industry has been commercialized and it too often follows or adheres to inferior information. A good inspector needs to get around this and look into the science aspect of construction - obviously this is way outside of any puny SoP.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    But for those of us who have been around the block a time or two this was an absolutely excellent program. As the speaker said, the industry has been commercialized and it too often follows or adheres to inferior information. A good inspector needs to get around this and look into the science aspect of construction - obviously this is way outside of any puny SoP.
    Mr. Barker: Eloquently stated.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Are there some good online resources where an inspector with not as much experience with Stucco/EIFS as you can go to learn more? (Besides just downloading a free PDF that talks about the 12 different kinds of stucco)

    Thanks!

    -Jon
    Errickson Home Inspections, LLC
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  14. #14
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Franson View Post
    Mr. Carroll: Maybe some of the fault lies with the inspectors themselves. Upon receiving a call from a prospective client, it behooves the inspector to ask many questions. Some of those might be, for example, "do you know what type of exterior cladding is on the house?", et al. While many clients may not know what type of cladding is on the house, an inspector could at that time state that he/she is not competent to inspect stucco claddings, if that is his or her belief.

    Unless Mr. Patterson is performing these rudimentary inspections for free, I have to wonder why he is complaining about the situation.
    Amen.....brother Elliot


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    EIFS. I am beginning to think they are like Lexan. The third generation of this material was not supposed to turn yellow, scratch, or become brittle.
    I gave up listening to them after the fifth new and improved product. The EIFS today are some kind of variation of Drivet Board. When inspecting these homes I look for little black spots near transitions, especially window and door openings. I inform on my report the occurrence or absence of these clues as to the condition of the siding. I also point out that sealant warranties never match the warranties of the material they are sealing.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Franson View Post
    Unless Mr. Patterson is performing these rudimentary inspections for free, I have to wonder why he is complaining about the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Amen.....brother Elliot
    Seems you guys missed what Scott said:

    (red, bold and underlining is my highlighting)
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I guess I'm fussing about it because it kind of paints a bad picture of the inspection profession. I'm getting paid and paid fairly well for what I'm doing.


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I woild be happy if the contractors would put it in right to start with

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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I'm one of those guys that does not do EIFS inspections.

    I do inspect the home, and identify the material. I do look for installation defects, and adverse conditions.

    What I don't do is probe the EIFS and do the typical "EIFS inspection". To me it's a specialized inspection, that has little to do with a normal home inspection.

    I thought about getting into EIFS inspections about 10 years ago. A friend of mine did, and I helped him on several. He did make good money doing them. The main reason he quit doing them was the scheduling thing. Since we get about 55 inches a year in Knoxville, it rains a lot. He might have a job set for Wednesday, and it rains heavy all day Tuesday. So he would have to re-schedule the job. In the process, he also lost a day's work. He quit doing EIFS inspections after a couple years.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    John,

    I disagree.

    Is inspecting the exterior cladding an add on option in your contract? .
    Steven,
    Apparently, you have gotten the impression that I am a HI. Let me clear that up for you. I am a Plaster/stucco/EIFS tradesman, Estimator/PM. You won't see me talking about any other trade on this board because of that. I come here for laughs, learning about how others present or represent my trade, and to disabuse those so called experts who presume to spout claptrap about which they know only enough to be dangerous. I can be helpful, sarcastic, rude, funny, or informative. I have also been known to be misinformed, and am more that receptive to correction, when necessary.
    Unfortunately, most of the HI's on this board let their ego get in the way of considering that they may be wrong. When I see someone post, for instance, that all EIFS is crap, (AD, Scott), what I hear under that comment, plain and simple, is ignorance.
    Try not to let it bother you, they will eventually fade away...

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    Steven,
    Apparently, you have gotten the impression that I am a HI. Let me clear that up for you. I am a Plaster/stucco/EIFS tradesman, Estimator/PM. You won't see me talking about any other trade on this board because of that. I come here for laughs, learning about how others present or represent my trade, and to disabuse those so called experts who presume to spout claptrap about which they know only enough to be dangerous. I can be helpful, sarcastic, rude, funny, or informative. I have also been known to be misinformed, and am more that receptive to correction, when necessary.
    Unfortunately, most of the HI's on this board let their ego get in the way of considering that they may be wrong. When I see someone post, for instance, that all EIFS is crap, (AD, Scott), what I hear under that comment, plain and simple, is ignorance.
    Try not to let it bother you, they will eventually fade away...

    Hi John,

    You're up late, but then again, so am I. It is the only way I can keep up with my reports.

    Yes, perhaps I did think you were a HI, only because you seemed to defended HIs by stating that the client was to blame for not asking the right questions.

    Considering that a client hires a HI because they realize that they do not have the expertise to inspect a house, why do you think they should have the expertise to know what questions to ask? By the way, what questions should they ask? Also, since the HI wants to "book" the job, what answers do you think the HI would give?

    Do you realize it's easier to select a surgeon (doctor) than it is to select a HI?

    Unfortunately, in most cases, a client does not know if the HI did a good job until it is too late.

    As far as AD or Scott, AD is old school. I don't always agree with him, but let me tell you, he has a great deal of knowlege. I trust his ability in a heartbeat.

    Scott is an absolute professional. He knows more than most. Actually, if I needed help with something, Scott is on my "shortlist" of who to go to.

    While I'm on the subject of my "shortlist," Ron Huffman is very close to the top of the list.

    As far as EIFS being "crap," I do not agree. I think that EIFS is a fantastic product. But I think that in most instances, it is installed like crap. I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER inspected an EIFS home, and walked away without finding errors. Usually, stupid or lazy errors.

    To be honest, in many cases it is not that the "EIFS" was APPLIED bad, it is usually because the installers, for some reason refuse to take responsibility for the preparation of the job. Usually flashing problems. Since they only care about the EIFS, they don't stop working, they just keep going... it's not their problem. But according to construction guildlines, once you accept it, you own it. So I hold them responsible. I think any EIFS installer should be a flashing installer (an EXPERT flashing installer). I also think that if they don't want to install flashing, they should work with someone who does, and they should at least inform the client that without the proper flashing, the job is DOOMED. They never do. They simply take the money and run.

    I agree that limited knowlege is dangerous... unless you are willing to be honest about your limitations and call in a specialist.

    John, how do you handle flashing, and overall site preparation?

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 08-05-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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  22. #22
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I am a Plaster/stucco/EIFS tradesman, Estimator/PM.
    That is not as impressive a CV as it might be.

    I can be helpful, sarcastic, rude, funny, or informative. I have also been known to be misinformed
    A sort or Jack of all trades, huh?

    , and am more that receptive to correction, when necessary.
    OK, then get ready for that correction.

    Barrier (face sealed) EIFS applied to wood frame structures is "crap" to use your words. It is an inherently defective system as per the NAHB, Building Science Corp., et al., all homeowners insurance carriers and yours truly. So then, if by "crap" you mean "inherently defective", we will have to agree to disagree.

    As the expert you may envision yourself to be, surely you concur. If not, please explain to us how it is that you are correct and all of the other players mentioned, though they are recognized authorities, are somehow wrong.

    Last edited by Elliot Franson; 08-05-2010 at 05:20 AM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Barrier EIFS is not an inherently defective product. It is designed to keep water out. Properly designed, detailed, installed, and maintained it does just that. You can't make water go thru EIFS unless you blow it at 70 mph for hours on end. Under those conditions, cement block will also let water thru.
    It will, however get behind the system through failed sealant joints, or faulty window designs. That's when the problems start, not in the unbroken field of the system itself.

    It is not, never was, and never will be a system that can deal with faulty sealants, disregarded maintenance, or stupid design. No product can stand up to that abuse and perform as advertised. Guess what, genius, there is rot underneath brick, wood siding and most other claddings over wood framed buildings.

    When will the "experts" admit that window, roof and door design and maintenance are as important as the system itself.

    I won't hold my breath...

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  24. #24
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    Smile Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER inspected an EIFS home, and walked away without finding errors. Usually, stupid or lazy errors.
    This is alarming and it is consistent with my limited experience with EIFS and Stone Veneer; albeit EIFS is a rare bird on the homes I've inspected.

    Another, maybe regional issue, is that there seems to be an aversion to weep holes in face brick. Inspected many brick homes; no weeps, but the 40yr old brick looks great.
    What gives?

    I've got an ugly situation going on right now where the stone veneer manufacturer who, in response to my request for an evaluation of the installation of his product, simply ignored some of his own published installation instructions. He actually told the Client's agent that "90% of the installations don't use weep screed". Ok, Mr. manufacturer, are we to follow your instructions or not? Do we need to stop the stone above the roof covering and windows or do we not? How bout the grout that you specifiy to be installed between the stacked stone as it's being installed? Why can I see lath and it doesn't bother you? How come having no sealants is ok? (FYI - I submitted a post about this home a few weeks ago).

    Any comments would be appreciated.

    Hi Scott - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - i'm wearing the "billy mays shirt" too, but I couldn't replicate the wall color

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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    I agree that a Home Inspector should be able to tell the difference between EIFS, Stucco, Stone veneer, Vinyl siding, Brick, and any other cladding. There are certain faults that are very common that should also be recongnizable. An inspector that does not specialize in this type of work and does not recommend a full inspection, or makes a client think that he did a full inspection, can be dangerous.

    EIFS, Stucco, and Stone veneer require an inspection that goes beyond the normal home inspection... especially when they are installed on a wooden structure.

    Also, when you are doing this type of inspection (a real inspection) .....


    So I understand it, you may have three prices: GOOD @ X $$$, BETTER @ $$$, or BEST ("a real inspection") @ $$$. Like buying tires?

    How would you tell the client how much should be expected to pay for the inspection service? As many homes have stucco, where do you draw the line on inspections? I would expect to purchase the services of a person that is able to inspect the complete home should it take 2 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours, etc. Ethically, should the inspector decline prior to the inspection if he/she feels that they are not familiar with a specific type of construction? What is a "real inspection"?

    .


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken;1404 08
    So I understand it, you may have three prices: GOOD @ X $$$, BETTER @ $$$, or BEST ("a real inspection") @ $$$. Like buying tires?

    How would you tell the client how much should be expected to pay for the inspection service? As many homes have stucco, where do you draw the line on inspections? I would expect to purchase the services of a person that is able to inspect the complete home should it take 2 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours, etc. Ethically, should the inspector decline prior to the inspection if he/she feels that they are not familiar with a specific type of construction? What is a "real inspection"?

    .
    I don't think you understand at all. Try reading Stevens response again.

    I learned in this thread that two of the very best in the business, Steven and Scott, don't know what they are talking about, but an eifs installer (who did not fully respond to the 'inherently defective' assertion), and an inspector with reading comprehension problems, do?

    Oy vey.

    Last edited by Mark Howe; 08-06-2010 at 07:28 AM.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    Barrier EIFS is not an inherently defective product. It is designed to keep water out. Properly designed, detailed, installed, and maintained it does just that. You can't make water go thru EIFS unless you blow it at 70 mph for hours on end. Under those conditions, cement block will also let water thru.
    It will, however get behind the system through failed sealant joints, or faulty window designs. That's when the problems start, not in the unbroken field of the system itself.

    It is not, never was, and never will be a system that can deal with faulty sealants, disregarded maintenance, or stupid design. No product can stand up to that abuse and perform as advertised. Guess what, genius, there is rot underneath brick, wood siding and most other claddings over wood framed buildings.

    When will the "experts" admit that window, roof and door design and maintenance are as important as the system itself.

    I won't hold my breath...
    Well I'm glad you are not holding your breath, it is not healthy

    While I do not claim to be an expert like you, I do agree that penetrations in the building envelope are the main culprits when it comes to water seepage into the structure.

    I also agree that 99% of the problems I find with EIFS relate to improper installation of the product and the associated flashing. I will also stand by this statement; "Any exterior cladding system that depends on sealants to keep water out of the walls is crap!"..... I do not know of any other exterior cladding that is as dependent on sealants to keep water out as EIFS is.

    Like it or not, this is my opine on EIFS and is based on a few thousand inspections of it since 1998. I bet that I have only found a couple dozen homes/buildings that did not have any major problems since I have been inspecting it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    Hi Scott - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - i'm wearing the "billy mays shirt" too, but I couldn't replicate the wall color
    The "wall color" is actually a picture in our living room....

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I keep trying to upload the Scott Patterson lookalike pic, but it keeps saying "upload failed". Pic complies with the size requirements. I can see it in my profile, but not on my post to the site!

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    I keep trying to upload the Scott Patterson lookalike pic, but it keeps saying "upload failed". Pic complies with the size requirements. I can see it in my profile, but not on my post to the site!
    Here it is:




  31. #31
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Barrier EIFS is not an inherently defective product.
    Mr. Carroll: From your lips to god's ears, I suppose. No recognized experts in the field agree with you, but hey, why let the facts interfere with your flights of fancy?

    I have inspected 100s of houses with barrier EIFS and have yet to find one, yes, not even one, that was functioning as a WRB. So then, that leaves us with the following choices:

    (1) The product is inherently defective when installed according to the manufacturers' installation instructions.

    and/or

    (2) The product is never installed correctly by the tradesmen like yourself in charge of that particular job.

    I vote for both inherently defective AND never installed properly. By the way, so do the NAHB, Building Science Corp., insurance companies, owners of homes with the stuff glued to them, and anyone with a lick of experience and common sense. Present company excluded, of course.


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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Here it is!

    Elliot, do your clients typically walk away from an EIFS home after having read your report?

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Elliot, do your clients typically walk away from an EIFS home after having read your report?
    Mr. Peake: The majority do, yes. Those who really like the house and the location usually opt to reclad the building with a reasonably durable material such as Portland cement stucco, et al.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Peake: The majority do, yes. Those who really like the house and the location usually opt to reclad the building with a reasonably durable material such as Portland cement stucco, et al.
    I've been a HI since 2004, but have 25yrs of general experience with EIFS (mostly on commercial bldgs). Rhetorical question: why would a homeowner want to deal with this product family when there are other more reliable options?

    I completely agree that nothing good can come from depending on sealant to maintain the envelope - unrealistic expectation in the real world and, therefore, IMHO, a misapplication on a residential structure. My understanding is that a sealant failure on an EIFS system can be catastrophic unless detected and repaired almost immediately. Most homeowners don't even change their air filters in a timely manner, so I don't feel confident in their ability to maintain the sealants.

    Now, I'm feeling the same way about adhered stone systems, in particular the stacked stone look .... ugggg!
    Very similar situation "must be installed correctly and maintained; great looking system". As they say in the "horse biz", "ya can't ride the looks".
    The disconcerting fact is that I have yet to see a stone veneer system installed on a home that appears to be 100% compliant with the manufacturer's instructions.

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I am a fairly new inspector and do not claim to be an expert in any way, still strugleing to find business. I watch this site often and use it as a learning tool. Some times I learn, some times I laugh, but this is the first time I have posted so go easy on me.

    I am in Minnesota, not sure how much EIFS we have around here maybe Jon or Ken can supply that info. I noticed the post and replys are from what I would call the steamy states TN - NY - IL - OR - FL - not real sure about TX and the person defending EIFS is from AZ. I lived in Tucson for several years and can tell you the differance is huge. Very little rain fall mostly during monsoon season when it rains like crazy for a 15 min. and the sun is back out. The humidity is very low so what moisture you do get goes away fast.

    My point is could it be that in Johns area with little rain and low humidity the product works well due to the fact it gets wet on a limited basis and takes no time to dry with the low humidity. And in the areas that are having problems it is not a good fit due to the amount of rain we get and the high humidity holding the mositure in the air?


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    why would a homeowner want to deal with this product family when there are other more reliable options?
    Mr. Peake: Usually because they have been misinformed by builders and stucco contractors who are still about 20 years behind the times regarding the EIFS issue. Or, perhaps because they have a vested interest in being ignorant of the facts. Take your pick.

    My understanding is that a sealant failure on an EIFS system can be catastrophic unless detected and repaired almost immediately.
    Mr. Peake: Yes, and what other exterior cladding are you aware of where the manufacturer REQUIRES annual professional inspection and maintenance in order to validate the product warranty?

    As they say in the "horse biz", "ya can't ride the looks".
    Mr. Peake: Many people who cannot afford a house that is properly clad but still like the look of Portland cement stucco and cast stone will be tempted to buy a house with EIFS. This country consists to a great extent of people who are all about appearances - what they drive, where they live, etc. And, if they can get it cheap, such as an EIFS house which is very difficult to sell even in a brisk market, why the hell not? Common sense and practicality be damned.

    Just my opinion.

    Last edited by Elliot Franson; 08-06-2010 at 12:33 PM.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Twite View Post
    I am a fairly new inspector and do not claim to be an expert in any way, still strugleing to find business. I watch this site often and use it as a learning tool. Some times I learn, some times I laugh, but this is the first time I have posted so go easy on me.

    I am in Minnesota, not sure how much EIFS we have around here maybe Jon or Ken can supply that info. I noticed the post and replys are from what I would call the steamy states TN - NY - IL - OR - FL - not real sure about TX and the person defending EIFS is from AZ. I lived in Tucson for several years and can tell you the differance is huge. Very little rain fall mostly during monsoon season when it rains like crazy for a 15 min. and the sun is back out. The humidity is very low so what moisture you do get goes away fast.

    My point is could it be that in Johns area with little rain and low humidity the product works well due to the fact it gets wet on a limited basis and takes no time to dry with the low humidity. And in the areas that are having problems it is not a good fit due to the amount of rain we get and the high humidity holding the mositure in the air?
    Hey Tim,

    Yes, the location does have a great deal to do with it. In the dry Southwest and West it can take a great deal of time for problems to show. In my part of the South on the average we get around 45" to 55" of rain a year, so we are going to have more problems than areas that get 10" of rain a year.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I have to disagree and agree with some of the comments above.

    If the EIFS cladding is done properly it will last a long time.. More than many people think..
    Here is some info that I stole from google since I am feeling lazy in a Friday:
    """""
    EIFS fails because moisture gets trapped between the foam backing of the EIFS system and the wood sheathing it is attached to. Water penetration allowed to enter behind the EIFS is unable to evaporate. The moisture attacks the wood sheathing, framing, and studs. This leads to dry rot and toxic mold problems.
    If untreated, the dry rot and mold damage can often cost as much as the new siding to replace it. The rotting wood ultimately leads to the destruction of the homes structure.
    Common moisture problems appear around the areas where the EIFS meets against the wood trim, roof flashing, windows and doors. EIFS that terminates below grade (ground) is also an easy entrance point for moisture and insects.
    Although most EIFS manufacturers have detailed installation instructions, these are often ignored by installers.
    Another common issue is the failure to install proper flashing systems. On 9 out of 10 EIFS homes that we deal with the existing flashing is improperly installed or missing altogether allowing large amounts of moisture infiltration causing dry rot and mold damage on the interior framing and wall surfaces.
    """""""""


    We all needed to learn at some point. I never left that stage...Today I learned something new.


    A home inspector can't and does not know everything about a house. Period. Even the most seasoned inspectors are not experts in all the trades. The only way one can be an expert in All trades is to know every word in the code book and know how to work in all trades with outstanding workmanship. I see sometimes code books and recognize errors at many levels. Sometimes I don't find errata, sometimes I do.


    With that said, must also say that I sometimes forget either to look at something or forget which code applies to what.


    If you spend a couple hours on google with the words litigation, lawsuit, construction, contractor, bad workmanship, bad design, etc, you will see that there is a lot of room for everyone to improve (including myself) and there is a lot of work out there, some of which unexplored.


    My research tells my guts that most of the ongoing current cladding/ veneer construction methodology is wrong because almost everyone is forgetting that wood framing buildings/home need air circulation in order to last a long time. Note: these are only my thoughts, I might be crazy



    Now I go to have some diner before something happens to my heart rate





  39. #39
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Folks keep talking about EIFS and "Barrier" EIFS. Barrier EIFS is doomed when installed on a wooden substrate. Yes, when it was first introduced in this country, thats how it was done. Once enough lawsuits came into play the manufacturers developed a "Water managed" or "Drainable" system.

    No longer was the EPS applied directly to wood. An interior drainage plane was incorporated, and weepable tracks were installed. In a perfect world, you would think that would have solved the problem. Too bad it didn't.

    As I have mentioned before, the most frequant installation flaws has to do with flashing. Whether it be kickout flashing or flashing at interfaces, that is where most woodrot failures originate.

    Yes, there are other areas that problems may exist. Yes, the system has to be maintained.

    Does a water managed system solve all? I'm not so sure. Yes, when installed properly, a water managed system will allow water that has penetrated the system to drain. But, think about this; although water drains down, it evaporates up. If there is no way for the humidity to escape, no air exchange, it can still create havoc.

    And... for those folks that keep swearing by sand mix stucco, There are problems with that type of cladding too. Same types of faults as with EIFS. Improper moisture barriers, drainage planes, flashing.

    AND

    Mr. Goeken,

    I only do one type of inspection; the very best. My best testimonial is that the agents do not refer me... unless it is for one of their family members, then they come out of the woodwork.

    I cannot remember one inspection that I have ever done, whether it be Building Envelope or traditional Home Inspection that has cost my client a cent. I usually save my clients much exponentially more money in repairs and aggrevation than my fee. They ALL say "thank you."

    This past year, one of my clients got a price reduction of $150,000.00 because of what I found... and PROVED! There are many other similar stories.


    GROWWWWWWWL



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  40. #40
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post

    I only do one type of inspection; the very best. My best testimonial is that the agents do not refer me... unless it is for one of their family members, then they come out of the woodwork.


    Steve,
    As a client I would expect only the very best from a HI. Keep up doing the "family"... you are from NY, right?


  41. #41
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Just one last comment:
    It is important to clarify the scope of the inspection. What are the client's expectations from the inspection report?. This can be described as a fine line or a 4 lane highway sometimes . Better clarify beforehand to avoid trouble.


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Barrier EIFS is doomed when installed on a wooden substrate.
    Mr. Turetsky: Indeed.

    No longer was the EPS applied directly to wood. An interior drainage plane was incorporated, and weepable tracks were installed. In a perfect world, you would think that would have solved the problem. Too bad it didn't.

    Mr. Turetsky: Yes.

    Yes, there are other areas that problems may exist. Yes, the system has to be maintained.
    Mr. Tretsky: Agreed.

    Does a water managed system solve all? I'm not so sure.
    Mr. Turetsky: So far we are on the same page.

    And... for those folks that keep swearing by sand mix stucco, There are problems with that type of cladding too. Same types of faults as with EIFS. Improper moisture barriers, drainage planes, flashing.
    Mr. Turetsky: Yes, there can be similar problems. No, they are not as prevalent as in EIFS. Examples of three-coat Portland cement buildings older than we are abound with few problems. Not so with EIFS.


  43. #43
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    The majority of EIFS problems are due to poor workmanship on the EIFS installation and the broadly overlooked deficient installation of sealants AKA as caulk joints.

    As an example I find that EIFS crew foremen (like roofers) rarely have relevant drawings and /or details and don't know the meaning of "end dams". Never mind the setup/ construction of a caulk joint, which by itself does not do the magic of protecting the hard work and expensive materials underneath.
    Most of the EIFS failures that I have seen started at the joints or top edges.

    Now I need to go finish the wife's chair


  44. #44
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Turetsky: Yes, there can be similar problems. No, they are not as prevalent as in EIFS. Examples of three-coat Portland cement buildings older than we are abound with few problems. Not so with EIFS.[/quote]

    Mr. Franson: Do you mean the older homes that have little or no insulation, plank boards with a space between them rather that plywood or osb sheets, and no air or vapor barrier?

    I would think that may be the differance. The old homes could breath and the water and vapor both have the ability to escape.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Twite:

    I am a student of Joseph Lstiburek and John Carmody , among many others. You are preaching to the choir.

    Ventilation can be achieved rather easily in any building. But, not by most of the "builders" practicing today.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Franson:

    You are right. I have read some of Lstiburek, I think he is dead on in his article Built Wrong from the Start but was not aware of Carmody. You would think being in Minnesota as he is I should be but that is part of why I follow this site to learn and find new resources. Thank you for the link I will do so looking into him and maybe seeing as he is in the same area be able catch a class or seminar with him.

    Again thanks and have a great week end.


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Hi, ALL &

    Bottom Line, though - as has been at least 'hinted-at' above - is if all that bad work was NOT done, it'd be closer to a 'perfect' world out there and:

    We wouldn't really be needed...

    Keep up the bad work, everyone (even bad HI's lead to good business & I just love it) !

    Have never 'not' looked carefully at the exterior - unless that Client didn't want to pay for it, but it is normally always included & a "given"...


    CHEERS !

    -Glenn Duxbury, CHI

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    [quote=Steven Turetsky;140523]Folks keep talking about EIFS and "Barrier" EIFS. Barrier EIFS is doomed when installed on a wooden substrate. Yes, when it was first introduced in this country, thats how it was done. Once enough lawsuits came into play the manufacturers developed a "Water managed" or "Drainable" system.

    No longer was the EPS applied directly to wood. An interior drainage plane was incorporated, and weepable tracks were installed. In a perfect world, you would think that would have solved the problem. Too bad it didn't.

    As I have mentioned before, the most frequant installation flaws has to do with flashing. Whether it be kickout flashing or flashing at interfaces, that is where most woodrot failures originate.

    Yes, there are other areas that problems may exist. Yes, the system has to be maintained.

    Does a water managed system solve all? I'm not so sure. Yes, when installed properly, a water managed system will allow water that has penetrated the system to drain. But, think about this; although water drains down, it evaporates up. If there is no way for the humidity to escape, no air exchange, it can still create havoc.
    Not sure about the problem there, if the water is out, what difference does the evap direction make?

    All EIFS is vapor permeable, the point of condensation is the issue, not the presence of water vapor.


    I only do one type of inspection; the very best.
    That's right, you bad... wanna run a check on that ego, son?

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Mr. Carroll: Your special location and circumstances may have led you to believe that EIFS is a fine product. And, in an arid (both meteorologically and mentally) area such as much of Arizona, a properly installed water managed system may prove to be satisfactory, given of course annual maintenance and no golf courses nearby.

    In the real world where most of the rest of us live - if you doubt this check the census statistics - we have something called rain. We also have humidity, which is kind of like rain that just hangs there without falling. And then there is hail, which can be likened to frozen water shot from cannons. EIFS does not prosper under any or all of these conditions, drained or not. We will not even discuss the implications when EIFS is involved in a fire . . .

    Additionally, we (at least here in my 7-million strong area) are not blessed with master applicators as you seem to be. So, I fear, is the case with everywhere else but Arizona.

    EIFS is an inherently defective product. Always has been, and likely always will be.


  50. #50
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Hey John, How are you today? I didn't expect you until next week. Couldn't wait. huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
    Not sure about the problem there, if the water is out, what difference does the evap direction make?

    All EIFS is vapor permeable, the point of condensation is the issue, not the presence of water vapor.
    .

    Not everything I know came from... "online courses" hahahahahaha. Some of what I know comes from past experiences and ongoing experience. As an "old dog," I must tell you I have had quite a few.

    So this humidity thing; yes EIFS is permeable. Do you know the permeability of EIFS?... how about as compared to other building systems and materials. Do you know what the normal moisture content in wood is? Or how about at what different levels, different things happen?

    You put up new EIFS for a living, I open it up to see what it looks like a few years later. Hey man, I've seen some that don't look so good. You see John, without reading it in a book, my scientific reasoning is that in osmosis, if a barrier (membrane) is less permeable, it will equalize slower. Call me silly, but in my head, I feel that if nothing else, a wooden area that has higher humidity for longer, is not better, or even just as good as one that can equalize faster. Just like in a basement, crawlspace, or attic; air exchange is crucial. I believe that a house is a living thing, any living thing that is healthy breathes. The less it can breath, the healthier it ain't.

    I also have a solution for this anomaly that would elevate EIFS to the next level, but unless you sign a confidentially agreement... I ain't tellin'. Do you want to finance me?

    That's right, you bad... wanna run a check on that ego, son?
    My good man, I am truly a humble man. I have always treated everyone in this forum with the same respect that I want in return. I would love to introduce you to my friend AD. He wrote the book on detante. He hasn't been around lately, I think he's in Afghanastan.

    I know some great inspectors, some of which are in this forum. Some know more than I can ever hope to know. But at the same time, although I don't know everything they know... they don't know everything I know.

    As far as inspecting goes. I don't have an ego problem. I do have pride and confidance, but the way I see it, that is not a problem. I am very serious inspector, and do nothing except inspect buildings and or work on reports 6, sometimes 7 days a week. I fill my reports with relevant information... not cut and pasted fill. When I do an inspection, it is up close and personal. Most importanty, I don't give 2 shits about upsetting a real estate agent.

    Now be a nice man, and tell me you love me.

    Peace

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 08-17-2010 at 04:09 PM.
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  51. #51
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    But at the same time, although I don't know everything they know... they don't know everything I know.
    Ahahahaha! you hit the nail in the head ;
    Wisdom and experience is not measured by the bucket;;;


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Are there some good online resources where an inspector with not as much experience with Stucco/EIFS as you can go to learn more?
    NACHI.TV - Stucco & EIFS Inspection Training and Certification

    The course is presented in hi-definition, online video.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Just for you Lisa, an excerpt of the forum rules:

    Please note that unsolicited advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes and solicitations are STRICTLY forbidden. If you would like to take advantage of an excellent opportunity to promote your services/products in front of 5,300+ inspector members, please contact us.


    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
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  54. #54
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    It wasn't "unsolicited." Read the quote in my post slower.

    Lisa Endza
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  55. #55
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Just for you Lisa, an excerpt of the forum rules:
    Congrats Ken
    I had no idea you worked for I.N or are you one of those guys that thinks he runs the forum?
    Your job must be to chase people off it .

    A link was posted to a useful site and you knock down the lady for trying to be of assistance.

    Hope you are not married.


  56. #56
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    I believe only Brian can determine if Lisa's post breaks any forum rules, In my opinion because INACHI pays for advertisng in this forum; I see nothing wrong with her posting the link. At the same time, Ken is a worthy contributer in this forum, and I see nothing wrong with him questioning or challanging any post.

    I can personally attest to the qualifications of Ron Huffman and Dennis Rose (INACHI's instructors). They are both true experts in their field and anything you can learn from either of them is well worth paying attention to.

    For years I've read posts from Home Inspectors asking how to identify EIFS. I believe any person that charges a fee to a client to inspect a home should at the very least be able to identify EIFS or any other cladding, and should at the very least be able to identify certain basic flaws in a cladding system... any cladding system. This can certainly be learned in INACHI's EIFS course.

    The problem I have is with the title CERTIFIED. There is a difference between a Home Inspector that is certified in EIFS and a Certified EIFS inspection. If the intent of the certification is not a marketing ploy, I would prefer a Certificate of Completion be issued.

    The posting of "Certified EIFS Inspector" on one's website is going to attract clients. Naturally, a client considering purchasing an EIFS home (or one that owns one already), will be led to believe that this inspector will be able to truly and completely evaluate the system.

    I am not aware of ANY association that offers a basic course that will enable the attendee to perform an EIFS inspection that will offer their client the information they really need. If anybody doubts this... ask Ron Huffman or Dennis Rose.

    Simply stating that an installation is (or is not) to manufacturer's specs is a dis-service to a client. An EIFS inspection should determine the efficiency of the system and the condition of the structure that the EIFS is installed on. You must specify repairs. You must be willing to argue with builders and installers. You must be willing to put your ass on the line with every inspection.

    You must ou MUST perform an invasive inspection.

    Imagine inspecting a home that has a system with a few flaws. OK, what do you advise... total removal? Or imagine a home with no visible flaws, does it get a clean bill of health?

    And when they remove the system and find little or no damage, what do you say then? And if you give the building a good review, and 6 months later you get a phone call about thousands upon thousands of dollars in damage that you didn't discover...

    The wisest advice that any Home Inspector can offer a client is to have a certified inspection by a real EIFS expert.

    Unfortunately there is no Certified Certified Certification.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
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  57. #57
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    We agree with Steven's position. With few exceptions, an inspector who takes one of our approved inspection courses, passes all the quizzes, and passes its final exam receives a "certificate of completion."

    Lisa Endza
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    InterNACHI

  58. #58
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post

    A link was posted to a useful site and you knock down the lady for trying to be of assistance.
    .
    Bob this topic is 1.5 years old. It looks like lisa /nick are getting desperate by trolling posts for suckers willing to pay them $365.00 for information that can be found for free on this site and the internet.

    As far as installations John C did 20 plus years ago, I've seen a few of them and can vouch they are still intact, he must of done his jobs the correct way.
    If I need any stucco or eifs information I think I will continue getting all of the information I need from him for free.
    I bet if I asked him to certify or me, or for a " certificiation of completion " he would also give that out for free.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  59. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Denver
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Dan you are incorrect again.

    The post before mine, #51, was made on 8/20/2010. At the time of this post, the oldest post displayed at bottom of the first page of this forum is dated 8/18/2010. That means that this thread was still on the first page of this forum when I replied to it.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  60. #60
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Congrats Ken
    I had no idea you worked for I.N or are you one of those guys that thinks he runs the forum?
    Your job must be to chase people off it .

    A link was posted to a useful site and you knock down the lady for trying to be of assistance.

    Hope you are not married.
    Nope, I don't work for I.N. Otherwise she would have been banned long ago. Let's take a look at this sentence.

    A link was posted to a useful site and you knock down the lady for trying to be of assistance.
    "A link was posted to a useful site" Nope it's only useful if you pay to become a member. That's called advertising. "and you knock down the lady for trying to be of assistance." Nope, this lady decided to reply to a post that is a year and 5 month old and post a link that requires payment to get the information. Not useful at all. I have no problem if Lisa post information that is obtainable free of charge, but that's not what she did.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  61. #61
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    Dan you are incorrect again.

    The post before mine, #51, was made on 8/20/2010. At the time of this post, the oldest post displayed at bottom of the first page of this forum is dated 8/18/2010. That means that this thread was still on the first page of this forum when I replied to it.
    I know it's fri. but what the heck are you drinking with the nacho kool aid?

    The question you answered was posted on 7-20-2010

    There is only one page to this topic, the 1st post was 07-2010, and this is Dec. 2011

    Last edited by Dan Harris; 12-16-2011 at 10:17 AM.
    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  62. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    We agree with Steven's position. With few exceptions, an inspector who takes one of our approved inspection courses, passes all the quizzes, and passes its final exam receives a "certificate of completion."
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    NACHI.TV - Stucco & EIFS Inspection Training and Certification

    The course is presented in hi-definition, online video.
    Lisa, if this is so, why does the link you posted above clearly state "... and Certification"?


    Dan, Over time, having read some of your posts, I must say that I hold you in the highest regard. I just wish that at some point there could be a conversation (thread) that did not turn into a bashing session.

    As far as charging a fee, $365 is a fraction of what I paid for my first EIFS course. I don't blame Nick for charging a fee. Why shouldn't he? Do you ? I do.

    I have never seen John C's work and have no reason to question his workmanship. But, 20 years ago, there was no right way to install EIFS on wood, or should I say; the right way was wrong, and errors/defeciencies are built into installations since then to date.

    Someday go into an EIFS showroom, check out the latest accessories, precautions, and techniques that are recommended. I'm sure the majority of folks have seen jobs in progress. You decide.

    The whole point that I am trying to make is that although a system may APPEAR intact, there is no way of determining what is really happening without going invasive.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 12-16-2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Added copy
    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  63. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Because it is one of the exceptions I referenced in my post.
    We agree with Steven's position. With few exceptions, an inspector who takes one of our approved inspection courses, passes all the quizzes, and passes its final exam receives a "certificate of completion."
    The course does not cost $365. Membership does, which comes with free, unlimited access to all our inspection courses and all our membership benefits.

    I suppose that if you want to attribute a portion of the membership dues to one course, the course would probably cost less than 4 cents.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  64. #64
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    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    930

    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    Lisa, if this is so, why does the link you posted above clearly state "... and Certification"?


    Dan, Over time, having read some of your posts, I must say that I hold you in the highest regard. I just wish that at some point there could be a conversation (thread) that did not turn into a bashing session.

    As far as charging a fee, $365 is a fraction of what I paid for my first EIFS course. I don't blame Nick for charging a fee. Why shouldn't he? Do you ? I do.

    I have never seen John C's work and have no reason to question his workmanship. But, 20 years ago, there was no right way to install EIFS on wood, or should I say; the right way was wrong, and errors/defeciencies are built into installations since then to date.

    Someday go into an EIFS showroom, check out the latest accessories, precautions, and techniques that are recommended. I'm sure the majority of folks have seen jobs in progress. You decide.

    The whole point that I am trying to make is that although a system may APPEAR intact, there is no way of determining what is really happening without going invasive.
    Steve as an expert in this field how would you review the NACHI course?
    I will accept your expert opinion over those who simply come to bash with zero knowledge in this topic.


  65. #65
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    Mar 2007
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    Mesa AZ
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    Default Re: Why can't an inspector ID Stucco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    Lisa, if this is so, why does the link you posted above clearly state "... and Certification"?


    Dan, Over time, having read some of your posts, I must say that I hold you in the highest regard. I just wish that at some point there could be a conversation (thread) that did not turn into a bashing session.

    As far as charging a fee, $365 is a fraction of what I paid for my first EIFS course. I don't blame Nick for charging a fee. Why shouldn't he? Do you ? I do.
    e.
    Steven , thanks for the complement. I guess I should start working on my message board manners.
    I'm just not sure where to start when it comes to someone that almost daily lies, bashes, even slanders home inspectors from different associations [ on this and other open to the public sites] that do not buy into the bogus certifications and marketing gimmicks that are focused to make the consumer believe, just because a person took an on-line quiz and paid $s to another person, that inspector is now certified and more qualfied to do their inspection.


    As far a charging a fee, I agree. The problem I have with that is there are 10-15 other paying venders on this site, none of them jump in a topic and try to sell, or often per lisa give us something for free, when in fact it is not for free.
    And NONE of the other venders openingly bash any inspector reguardless what association they choose to support and be a member of.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

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