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  1. #1
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Has anybody seen or been party to any enforcement of the new lead abatement laws. It has been my understanding that the municipalities are turning a blind eye to the issue and only requiring back-up documentation after the fact.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    The Calif. Structural Pest Control Board has given us and extension up to the first of the year as long as we are singed up for a class.

    Its all in holding for now. Some attorney is going to make a killing off of this. The real estate agents in my area don't have a clue that this is even a law and the it has a fine up to $ 35k a day...

    I keep advising my clients of it...

    Best

    Ron


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    "Has anybody seen or been party to any enforcement of the new lead abatement laws."

    You said abatement, however I think you are talking about leat paint.
    The RRP Rule that went into effect in April.
    I receive emails about RRP news.
    At this time there is very little if any enforcement of the new law.
    Talk is, it will be Certified RRP Contractors turning in the not certified contractors. Then in order to avoid paying the bill, the Homeowners will report them. Followed last by local Goverment enforcement.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    "Has anybody seen or been party to any enforcement of the new lead abatement laws."

    You said abatement, however I think you are talking about leat paint.
    The RRP Rule that went into effect in April.
    I receive emails about RRP news.
    At this time there is very little if any enforcement of the new law.
    Talk is, it will be Certified RRP Contractors turning in the not certified contractors. Then in order to avoid paying the bill, the Homeowners will report them. Followed last by local Goverment enforcement.
    Contractors turning in contractors, seems to me this will accomplish nothing but to clog up an already overburdened municipal inspection dept. This legislation is about money, pure and simple. Proof of that is the removal of the homeowner waiver option.


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    "Contractors turning in contractors, seems to me this will accomplish nothing but to clog up an already overburdened municipal inspection dept."

    My thoughts are, it will be reported to the EPA not the local building department. The local will not be enforcing the RRP rule, at least for a while. The EPA is the enforcement agency one will have to reckon with.
    If and when the EPA allots some of the money from fines to the locals, then the locals will have an incentive to enforce the rule.
    I think reporting violators to the EPA will be from other contractors, homeowners and property renters.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    InterNACHI offers this course.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    "InterNACHI offers this course."

    Lisa
    I presume you are referring to the RRP course.
    We have been over this before.
    You (INACHI) do not have this course.
    What you have is the information that is covered during the course.
    It is misleading to say otherwise.

    You did put a notice at the beginning stating that it was not certified.
    However, there were several places in the presentation that indicated that it was certified, or that after completion one would be certified.

    I think you (Ben) has done a good job by putting it online.

    I'm sure you will let me know of any updates on this.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bell View Post
    Has anybody seen or been party to any enforcement of the new lead abatement laws. It has been my understanding that the municipalities are turning a blind eye to the issue and only requiring back-up documentation after the fact.
    They are doing absolutely nothing about it in my area. Our local AHJ said they have not even talked about enforcing the law.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa
    I presume you are referring to the RRP course.
    We have been over this before.
    You (INACHI) do not have this course.
    What you have is the information that is covered during the course.
    It is misleading to say otherwise.

    You did put a notice at the beginning stating that it was not certified.
    However, there were several places in the presentation that indicated that it was certified, or that after completion one would be certified.

    I think you (Ben) has done a good job by putting it online.

    I'm sure you will let me know of any updates on this.
    I refer you to the U.S. EPA site Lead Home | Lead in Paint, Dust, and Soil | US EPA

    Note the second provider down on the list.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    I recently heard a PSA on the radio saying something about using RRP certified contractors. But it was weak.

    The EPA is having a meeting in Atlanta to discuss enforcement of RRP.
    I plan on being there.

    Several states have adopted their own standards and enforcement.
    The standards are identical to the EPAs, so are the fines.
    The difference is, it seems that the state gets to keep the fines.
    I expect that if the state keeps the fines, the state is much more likely to enforce the RRP rules.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Home Depot now gives you the RPP notice, which is quite scary, every time you buy paint.

    InterNACHI's course is EPA approved.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Good for you Lisa.
    I stand corrected.
    I believe that makes you (INACHI) the only course that has been accredited for online training.
    Question.
    How did you satisfy the requirement for "Hands on" training?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Let me be the 1st to congratulate you.
    Well, maybe not the 1st, but, congratulations.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa
    Am I correct in thinking that a person taking your online course must go to Colorado to get the "hands on" training, and also take the test, in person, before they are actually certified?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Both portions have been approved by the EPA. You should first take the six hours online for free. Then take the two hours of hands-on training which is available through any number of InterNACHI School/EPA-approved instructors across the U.S. Our Colorado location offers it every week at no charge for InterNACHI members.

    As you point out, the big advantage of InterNACHI's course is that you can complete most of it online.

    The certification is valid for five years. After that you will have to take InterNACHI's online refresher course.

    Last edited by Lisa Endza; 03-07-2011 at 12:48 PM.
    Lisa Endza
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    So I can expect to see you in Columbus, when?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bell View Post
    Has anybody seen or been party to any enforcement of the new lead abatement laws. It has been my understanding that the municipalities are turning a blind eye to the issue and only requiring back-up documentation after the fact.
    I can speak only for MN - We have a state law that requires all municipalities in MN to look up the EPA certification of contractors who request permits for work in/on/at homes built prior to 1978. And yes, to the other part of your question.

    Fred Comb, ACI
    Mahtomedi, MN
    www.homeinspectionsofmn.com

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    Home Depot now gives you the RPP notice, which is quite scary, every time you buy paint.

    InterNACHI's course is EPA approved.
    Let me jump in. Reading posts have me a little confused. (nothing new) So Lisa, as a representative/agent of InterNACHI you are saying that I can fulfill the Maryland MHIC EPA Contractor Certification requirements through InterNACHI online and that there is someone Certified in Maryland that is connected to and part of InterNACHI that will complete the certification program requirements for the applicant. All free (killer deal) to members of InterNACHI. And you have a name of the representative in Maryland that I can have to confirm their status as acceptable for Maryland. ( a little wordy sorry, want to be clear in what I am asking ).


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    No, you can't. InterNACHI members can.

    Last edited by Lisa Endza; 03-08-2011 at 08:13 AM.
    Lisa Endza
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    No, you can't. InterNACHI members can.
    I may have to sign up with Internachi if the RRP training is free. Average cost for RRP training is $250 in my area. If I hook up with Internachi for $390, get RRP certification and take advantage of some of the other online courses I could easily justify the cost. Any hidden costs for the RRP cert.?


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    No, you can't. InterNACHI members can.

    Sorry, maybe I did not word my inquiry correctly.

    """"..."So Lisa, as a representative/agent of InterNACHI you are saying that I can fulfill the Maryland MHIC EPA Contractor Certification requirements through InterNACHI online and that there is someone Certified in Maryland that is connected to and part of InterNACHI that will complete the certification program requirements for the applicant. All free (killer deal) to members of InterNACHI. And you have a name of the representative in Maryland that I can have to confirm their status as acceptable for Maryland".....""""

    Let me try again. Adding to/clarifying my post. Presumptive that the free part is a result of being a InterNACHI member in good standing (paid up membership), ergo "..(killer deal)...." = great deal. My reiteration, " And you have a name of the representative in Maryland that I can have to confirm their status as acceptable for Maryland"? Sorry that I left the question mark off the original post.


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Langhorn View Post
    I may have to sign up with Internachi if the RRP training is free. Average cost for RRP training is $250 in my area. If I hook up with Internachi for $390, get RRP certification and take advantage of some of the other online courses I could easily justify the cost. Any hidden costs for the RRP cert.?
    That was my thinking also. MD runs about the same, depend who is the extortion agent for the EPA. Never apposed to a good deal, but always wherry.


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    That was my thinking also. MD runs about the same, depend who is the extortion agent for the EPA. Never apposed to a good deal, but always wherry.
    Training for certification is one cost and the EPA wants some money as well. Last time I check between training cost and EPA cost it was around $500. Is that about rights?


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Langhorn View Post
    Training for certification is one cost and the EPA wants some money as well. Last time I check between training cost and EPA cost it was around $500. Is that about rights?
    Certification class @$ 250 + EPA Registgration @ $400 ? + Equipment @$300 to $500 +
    Then to actual follow protocol add $300 min to job cost for each job. Botttle of Excedren for the headache from vining by client when told of new added costs and why (I always explain every thing in detail to clients). And that is the beginning of what the Nanny State will be requiring in the future. I think that the blowhards in gov are saying that there is only $50 added to job costs. And health care will be free for all at no cost to anyone.


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    With InterNACHI's system, you don't have to pay the EPA for the certification. InterNACHI provides the certification for the EPA at no additional cost.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    I just registered for the class here at our local community college. It looks like it will be $225 total, including the certification. I'll find out on Thursday and let you know if there are other costs involved. I don't really need it for inspections, but I may for working on my rental properties if they ever get around to enforcing it here.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    "
    With InterNACHI's system, you don't have to pay the EPA for the certification. InterNACHI provides the certification for the EPA at no additional cost."


    Lisa,
    I don't think thats the way it works.
    Its not just INACHI, It's like that with all trainers.

    A person takes the training and is certified, no charge from the EPA
    A Company pays $300 to the EPA and is registered as a Certified firm.
    Gotta have both.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Jim
    If your properties were built before 1978, then yes, you should get it.
    You will also need to be a Certifying firm, $300 to the EPA.

    I also have rentals.
    Instead of thinking about IF the EPA will ever do anything, think instead, "Will my tenants sue me or turn me in, if given half a chance?".
    Hint, yes they will

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    With InterNACHI's system, you don't have to pay the EPA for the certification. InterNACHI provides the certification for the EPA at no additional cost.
    Lisa, I may not understand "No additional cost" for InterNachi Members....Am I reading this from the Nachi training site correctly?

    To become certified, renovation contractors must submit an application and fee payment to EPA and take an 8-hour training course from an EPA-approved training provider. InterNACHI is an EPA-approved training provider.
    1. Complete the 6-hour online portion of this course (free);
    2. Attend the required 2-hour hands-on training session (There is a fee associated with the hands-on portion); and --Fee ????
    3. Submit an application and fee payment to EPA (There may be a fee associated).
    (I high lighted the next paragraph from the Nachi training site in red because it appears there is an extra cost required. Is there a fee of $200+ for Nachi members to complete rrp training.)


    Note: There is a fee associated with the required 2-hour hands-on training session (national average $200-250). The 2-hour hands-on training session is a required element of any EPA RRP course to become a Certified Renovator. You can not become a Certified Renovator without completing the 2 hours of live, classroom hands-on training. Hands-on training is available through The InterNACHI School. The training fee varies from $200 to $250, according to the student's location and the instructor's availability.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    No. The fee is only charged to non-member students which we believe will be mostly contractors who are required by law to have this certification. We don't see much demand for this renovator's certification coming from InterNACHI inspectors, other than maybe for general knowledge which they can already get from our online course for free.

    We have to be careful because we've been burned in the past by having some of our free membership benefits each individually worth more than the cost to join InterNACHI. This attracted non-inspectors into InterNACHI who only tried to join to access one or two high-value benefits and who had no true intention of ever offering inspection services, which the boss man doesn't like.

    Last edited by Lisa Endza; 03-08-2011 at 11:16 PM.
    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    No. The fee is only charged to non-member students which we believe will be mostly contractors who are required by law to have this certification. We don't see much demand for this renovator's certification coming from InterNACHI inspectors, other than maybe for general knowledge which they can already get from our online course for free.

    We have to be careful because we've been burned in the past by having some of our free membership benefits each individually worth more than the cost to join InterNACHI. This attracted non-inspectors into InterNACHI who only joined to access one or two benefits and who had no true intention of becoming home inspectors, which the boss man doesn't like.
    Lisa, Thank you for the clarification.


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Sorry made an error on cost for EPA registration, not $400

    The EPA application/registration is (to get the EPA Certificate) go to:

    http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/firmapp.pdf

    Renovation Firm Certification $300
    Lead-based Paint Activities Certification (Abatement, Inspection, Risk Assessment) $550

    Firms must be re-certified every five (5) years for renovations and three (3) years for lead-based paint activities (abatement, inspection, risk assessment).

    Some states have their own certification programs. Wisconsin, Iowa, North Carolina, Mississippi, Kansas, Rhode Island, Utah, Oregon, Massachusetts, and Alabama
    go to:

    EPA Lead-Safe Certification Program | Lead in Paint, Dust, and Soil | US EPA


    Now that I have corrected myself. Back to the horse on the ground.

    Lisa,

    Would you provide the name of the person/persons/company that are Certified in Baltimore Maryland to provide the 2hr hands on instruction that work in conjunction with InterNACHI's on-line course (free to members that are Lic HI) that meet the EPA training requirements for the Training Certificate.

    You posed the following:

    "With InterNACHI's system, you don't have to pay the EPA for the certification. InterNACHI provides the certification for the EPA at no additional cost."

    You were referring to the training certification not the the EPA Registration Certificate?


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa,
    Would you give me the link that takes you to that part of the InterNACHI's site dealing with the EPA RRP course certificate training. You have so much I was just able to find it. Thanks


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Did find theInterNACHI.org site : "Lead Safety for Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP)" course - InterNACHI

    Found at site:

    "To become certified, renovation contractors must submit an application and fee payment to EPA and take an eight-hour training course from an EPA-approved training provider. InterNACHI is an EPA-approved training provider."

    Also found the training accreditation # NAT-RV-I-61589-1-EL

    Saw listing of EPA Training Accreditation @ :

    http://cfpub.epa.gov/flpp/searchrrp.cfm?Applicant_Type=TRAINING&static=true& qlat=40.0521545112133&qlong=-105.19627176225185&Discipline=Renovator&TxtLocatio n=80301+++&distance_1=50&state_2=&doSearch=Yes

    Which leaves me with the question of who and where in the Baltimore Maryland area provides the 2 hr complement training to the 6 hr on-line course.





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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    I'm curious if I need to register a firm to work on my own properties. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    "I'm curious if I need to register a firm to work on my own properties. I guess I'll find out tomorrow."

    Yes

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    I'm curious if I need to register a firm to work on my own properties. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
    Any work done by a contractor (Lic or not, yes even illegal aliens) must now follow the EPA RRP rules. In MD we had our own state rules to work within. The EPA RRP now trumps what each state required. It does not make a difference who owns the property. The property owner can not wave the methods to preform the work. Is it possible to do the work yourself and not fall under the new regulation somehow, technically probably not.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Any work done by a contractor (Lic or not, yes even illegal aliens) must now follow the EPA RRP rules.
    Correct


    In MD we had our own state rules to work within.
    I heard that your state has some of the strictest rules in the country.


    The EPA RRP now trumps what each state required.
    Just as with national, state, and local building codes, the more restrictive code will apply.


    It does not make a difference who owns the property. The property owner can not wave the methods to preform the work.
    The owner of the property can do the work themselves. IF they live at the property, they are not bound by the EPA RRP rule.
    NOTE: They may still be subject to state and local.

    Is it possible to do the work yourself and not fall under the new regulation somehow, technically probably not.
    Yes, it is possible, but only when the property is your residence, not when the property is a rental property.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa,
    Knock----kknock???

    Which leaves me with the question of who and where in the Baltimore Maryland area provides the 2 hr complement training to the 6 hr on-line course.

    Also, is there a list of instructors by state?


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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    I just got word. We are only offering the course to InterNACHI members.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Took the class today. You can work on your own home without being subject to RRP. There is no longer any opt out scenario. A landlord working for free on his own property still must follow the RRP requirements. The instructor was not completely clear about if I had to register as a firm to work on my own property. I guess you just notify yourself. I will probably just go ahead and register in my company name, which may leave me some other options in the future. Maybe I'll hire myself to remodel my rental.

    It's not that huge of a deal to implement. People who are good at documentation and paperwork will have an easier time. The rest of it is pretty basic dust control taken to a higher level. The big hang up for a lot of people will be the need to pick up a HEPA vacuum. One funny thing is I am now certified to test for the presence of lead as part of an RRP project, but not to test for lead as a home inspector. Kind of funny.

    The instructor gave us some deadlines to expect an enforcement stand in our state, with some details about how it will go down. I'm curious to see what happens. Apparently there were some heavy fines in Denver. Did anyone hear of them?

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Also, she said this guys web site is a good source of information. He's opposed to the law. My instructor was not opposed to the law, but said his information is pretty accurate as far as the status of the law.

    Shawn McCadden Remodeling Industry Specialist, EPA RRP Consultant

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    The instructor was not completely clear about if I had to register as a firm to work on my own property.
    Yes, you will need to be a registered firm, or else have a registered firm document and retain the paperwork.


    I guess you just notify yourself
    Most important, notify your tenants.

    From what I've heard, when they fine someone, they fine them for improper documentation.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    I just got word. We are only offering the course to InterNACHI members.
    Which leaves me with the question of who and where in the Baltimore Maryland area provides the 2 hr complement training to the 6 hr on-line course.

    Also, is there a list of instructors by state?


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Also, is there a list of instructors by state?
    It appears that there are ten in Maryland. Here is the link to the EPA site Lead Home | Lead in Paint, Dust, and Soil | US EPA

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa,
    Very sorry that I am apparently not making my question clear enough.

    You are only offering the course to InterNACHI members. OK
    I was able to fin the InterNACHI training certification number.

    You stated that InterNACHI has certified EPA instructors that will provide the 2 hr additional training/class that will fulfill the course certification.

    What I am asking for is the ability to verify that those instructors are actualy accresiated to sign off on the additional training that is required beyond the on-line course that InterNACH offers free to its members (that are HIs).

    I am asking for a list of those instructors that are participating in the InterNACHI training that is being offered to its members, by state or just as a list. That way I (we) can determine how far one would have to travel to obtain the required face to face training that is required by the EPA to have InterNACHI provide a Certificate of completion that will be excepted by the EPA for their registration process.

    What I and others want to see and be able to verify is that there are no loose ends to what InterNACHI is offering as a free to members who are Home Inspectors.

    If you have to go 300 miles, to find a InterNACHI participating instructor, that will make a difference.


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    It actually won't make a difference. Although I'm sure I wouldn't be permitted to publish any list anyway, yesterday, after receiving EPA approval, InterNACHI closed the course to non-members. Sorry. Try the EPA link of approved trainers I gave you. It looks like they have quite a few in Maryland.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    To anyone following this thread if I am not being clear or there is a better way on what I am asking from Lisa and InterNACHI,

    Please give me a hand !


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    To anyone following this thread if I am not being clear or there is a better way on what I am asking from Lisa and InterNACHI,

    Please give me a hand !
    It's very clear to me.
    All you have to do is join nacho, pay nicki for your instant cert, and you'll get an answer. Until then your just another dumb stupid scum bag like the rest of us.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    It actually won't make a difference. Although I'm sure I wouldn't be permitted to publish any list anyway, yesterday, after receiving EPA approval, InterNACHI closed the course to non-members. Sorry. Try the EPA link of approved trainers I gave you. It looks like they have quite a few in Maryland.

    OK, LET ME TRY AGAIN.

    I JOIN InterNACHI AND BECOME A MEMBER. AGAIN I REPEAT,
    I JOIN InterNACHI AND BECOME A MEMBER.
    THAT AS A MEMBER I PREFORM HOME INSPECTIONS.
    ONE REASON TO JOIN IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO OBTAIN THE CERTIFICATION TO REGISTER WITH THE EPA VIA THE FREE TRAINING RECEIVED AS A MEMBER OF
    InterNACHI.

    I WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO WHO DOES THE HANDS ON TRAINING FOR InterNACHI , AND THEIR CREDENTIALS.

    I WANT TO VERIFY WHAT InterNACHI IS OFFERING AS AN INCENTIVE/INDUCEMENT TO JOINING IS VIABLE OR IF IT IS NOT.

    WHO / WHERE WOULD I HAVE TO GO TO
    AND
    HOW FAR WOULD I HAVE TO TRAVEL TO FINISH THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS AFTER COMPLETING THE ON-LINE TRAINING THROUGH InterNACHI ???

    AGAIN THIS IS ALL PREFACED THAT:

    I JOIN InterNACHI
    AND

    THAT AS A MEMBER I PREFORM HOME INSPECTIONS.

    This is not about non-member training in any terms !
    It is all about being a member.


  51. #51
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post

    From what I've heard, when they fine someone, they fine them for improper documentation.
    Repeated several times by the instructor.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  52. #52
    William Brady's Avatar
    William Brady Guest

    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    First let me say that I am a Lead Paint Inspector and Risk Assessor along with also being a long time HI. We are certified by the EPA for Region 6 and the Region 6 Tribal Lands and Licensed in Texas. States that administer there own Lead programs have enforcement powers and are doing that. EPA is still working out the details but will address complaints as needed.

    States like mine do not require contractors to prove anything at this point when pulling a permit to do any work on pre 1978 homes. Sounds like a problem waiting to happen. For example contractors are taking the RRP course but for some they do not apply to the EPA or the State for certification. Then when asked by realtors if they are OK to do the work they say yes which is causing lots of problems for everyone. Next week we are doing a lead inspection just because some contractor did the work for a property manager and was not certified. When the house was listed for sale the listing broker found out about this and called us in to advise him as to his oblgation to disclose this information to the buyer. Here in New Mexico Brokers have to disclose this type of information or they are risking a license problem. So I think the problem is that lots of people have little or no knowledge about the regulation and say things that are just not true.

    My advice to anyone is to call a Lead Inspector or Risk Assessor in your area if you need questions answered right away. The big agency's can not handle the volume.


  53. #53
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    William,
    Not absolutely sure, but believe that there is a responsibility of the party obtaining a service from a contractor to request/demand that they produce evidence that they are certified.

    Now this may surprise you. Some contractors will lie through their teeth. Even some contractors are illegal aliens who are not eligible to work in the US. If they will not get one document why would they get another?


    "...listing broker found out about this and called us in to advise him as to his oblgation to disclose this information to the buyer...."

    I guess that New Mexico has poor disclosure regulations if the Realtor would even think that there is a question of not disclosing the issue. And why would they ask you unless you are a lawyer. It sounds like a legal opinion.

    I would think the the property owner now has to keep all records and documentation regarding any renovations that fall under the new statutes by the EPA. Even if a permit for the work was not required.


  54. #54
    William Brady's Avatar
    William Brady Guest

    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    You are corrrect about asking for proper documentation from someone doing the work. What I am trying to talk about is the real world issues that I see coming up. In good faith this broker asked about his qualification and he produced the class cert. of attending the RRP class. She thought it was what she needed. What I was trying to say also is that some contractors have attended the RRP class but for one reason or another they have not gone the next step to get the required EPA certification. Maybe it's the money it cost, or maybe after they seeing what is required they decide not to get the certification. I have been told by contractor friends that both are reasons for not haveing gone forward. They in turn do not do work on homes built prior to 1978. In this case this contractor was observed doing the work and not using Lead Safe Work Practices.

    To your point as to why they called me. As a Risk Assessor I can consult with a customer regarding the requirements to do Lead Paint work. Both prior to the work and the abatement issues and also the cost to do a job from beginning to end. Maybe you did not know that. That is what a Risk Assessor does. There is a difference between a Risk Assessor and a Lead Paint Inspector. I also teach CE to Realtors on inspections issues. One class is Lead Paint Inspections and Risk Assessments. Locally and state wide they know me becaue I am the only one teaching those courses. By the way in this case and you might disagree I do not need to be a lawyer to answer these kind of questions.

    As for New Mexico disclousuer requirement they are very strict. However in the case of Lead Paint like everywhere else this comes as a new regulation and it has created many quesions for everyone. I think it is important to get good and correct information from someone who knows what they are talking about. In this case this realtor was led in the wrong direction by a contractor who's motive was the work and not the regulations or laws. This house was in the process of being sold and they wanted to make sure before the future buyer made a complaint after a sale.

    Let me ask you this question If for example you were doing a Radon inspection and someone asked you questions regaring how that worked. Would you feel confortable in answering that question or would you advise them to seek counsel. Would you tell them why radon was harmful or advise seeking counsel. If you were a pest inspector would you not tell your clients whow it works and the damage termits can do to a home or would you tell them to seek a lawyer.

    Also please let me say that I am not looking for a big disagreement with you. As a home inspector I read this site often and know that it can be a place where some want to bully others with there knowledge. I am in no way trying to do that. I am stating the facts as I know them from the EPA, HUD and OSHA regarding Lead Paint Inspections and Risk Assessments. I am not guessing about any of this. I am sure that I have not covered this topic fully and you can read into it and find fault. It would be better to talk about the issue an not start the blame game. I am not sure I know everything as a matter of fact this topic is so complicated that I need to check the manules often. I hope I have been of some help in answering your concerns.


  55. #55
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    William,
    The part dealing with you as a lawyer was as a result of what you stated.

    " ... When the house was listed for sale the listing broker found out about this and called us in to advise him as to his oblgation to disclose this information to the buyer. ..."

    Disclosure > This I would take as a legal point for an opinion. To disclose or not to disclose. To be truthful or deceptive. What is required, by law, of the broker. Who's responsibility is it and if not done by the primary party does it become the responsibility of others to preform if fact are known.

    Its not about prior and post requirements of the work, but more about the legal ramifications of the non EPA registered contractor. Being in position of the certificate ".... he produced the class cert. of attending the RRP class. ...." does not meet all of the requirements as set by the EPA, but in court hairs are split. Again in court the statement that "In this case this contractor was observed doing the work and not using Lead Safe Work Practices. " would be a final judgment by the court. Not to say that any of that can not be determined by the understanding of what the requirements are and how they should be followed. Legal (sad to say) is not about right and wrong, its about an argument of fact (or its twisting) and then a determination by the presiding authority.

    It was very wise that the seller wanted to be informed of future remediation that may be required as a result of the work done at the owner's direction. Not sure why the Realator was asking the contractor if they were qualified, unless the Realtor was acting by power of attorney in some form, to handle (be an agent/representative of the owner) the work and its contracts. The point here is if the Realtor procured the contractor and contracted for work as a owner's representative then the Realtor is on the hook. If the owner relied on the expressed (by Realtor) professional expertise of the Realtor as the source to authenticate the contractor as qualified, then again I would deem that the Realtor is on the hook for the post work remediation and liability. Did the Realtor proffer to the owner the contractor as a referred qualified source to preform the work Then Realtor is on the hook. I am not a lawyer, just personal interpenetration of situation. Many times I will get into a discussion with lawyer friends and there seem to be a twist in the law that I did not understand. And this all differed by State and jurisdiction.

    I understand that they called you first as a familiar face and a source of information. That in certain areas you can offer an Expert Opinion. But, as I took their question as to disclosure to buyer, I would have thought that the Realtor would have wanted a legal opinion as to their liability in the matter.

    Today it seem that if a client is refereed to a trade professional by another trade professional there is an implied representation by the referring party. Ergo when it hits the fan the referring party is drug into the mess (right or wrong). Which is why I choose making referrals cautiously.


  56. #56
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    It actually won't make a difference. Although I'm sure I wouldn't be permitted to publish any list anyway, yesterday, after receiving EPA approval, InterNACHI closed the course to non-members. Sorry. Try the EPA link of approved trainers I gave you. It looks like they have quite a few in Maryland.

    Lisa,

    As a prospective member I would like to know who does the hands on/ in person training that completes the InterNACHI on-line EPA RRP in the Maryland region.

    If you feel that you can not respond in this thread publicly, please send me a reply via utilizing the "Send a private message to..." option.


  57. #57
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    We don't offer that information, or the course, to non-InterNACHI members.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  58. #58
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Lisa
    If Nick were to invite you to a cookout.
    And at the cookout he was serving Grilled Turds.
    When he hands you a Grilled Turd on a bun, would you say, Mmmmm?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  59. #59
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    No. I don't get what you are trying to say. Can you explain?

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  60. #60
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    It's a metaphor

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  61. #61
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    I don't get it though. What is the "cookout" Nick is inviting me to in your metaphor?

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  62. #62
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    What is the "cookout...

    Employment,
    A paycheck
    In short, your job.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  63. #63
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Oh. I love my job. I'm only a year into a very long-term contract with InterNACHI, so I'm glad it's a job I love. It's more than just a great job though. InterNACHI is succeeding in becoming the world's first, truly global professional association, and it is really exciting to be part of something so big.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  64. #64
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    " ...would you say, Mmmmm?"

    Oh. I love my job. I'm only a year into a very long-term contract with InterNACHI, so I'm glad it's a job I love. It's more than just a great job though. InterNACHI is succeeding in becoming the world's first, truly global professional association, and it is really exciting to be part of something so big.


    Mmmmm.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  65. #65
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Lead Abatement Enforcement

    Your metaphor isn't. Because no one "handed" me my job. I earned it.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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