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  1. #1
    Stefan McGuire's Avatar
    Stefan McGuire Guest

    Default EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    I have a question if you don't mind my asking. I did an inspection on a brand new Legend home and it had EIFS on the front- I haven't seen EIFS on anything newer than the 90's when it had all the installation issues and associated problems.
    It looked like it was over rain screen and I wondered if you had any comments about this -- whenever I run accross EIFS on the older homes (fortunately not very often) it is always pretty easy to find something that merits a further evaluation by a specialist, but on a new house didn't think that seemed realistic.
    I always was under the impression that the perimeter/ dis-similar surface junctions is were the problems arise, and that they need the 3/4" sealant joints -- in this case the sealant was done everywhere.
    The only concerns I had (which seemed pretty minor) was that at one of the expansion joints (along the 2nd floor rim joist area) was slightly cracking, and that the downspout clamps were screwed right into the wall w/o the sealant treatment.

    I thought this stuff was never going to show up in residential construction again... I was really surprised to see it, and I was at a loss as to how to tell my clients about the prior problems this stuff had w/o giving too much info that didn't really apply.

    Any info/ comments/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated
    Sincerely,
    Stefan McGuire

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    5,847

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan McGuire View Post
    I have a question if you don't mind my asking. I did an inspection on a brand new Legend home and it had EIFS on the front- I haven't seen EIFS on anything newer than the 90's when it had all the installation issues and associated problems.
    It looked like it was over rain screen and I wondered if you had any comments about this -- whenever I run accross EIFS on the older homes (fortunately not very often) it is always pretty easy to find something that merits a further evaluation by a specialist, but on a new house didn't think that seemed realistic.
    I always was under the impression that the perimeter/ dis-similar surface junctions is were the problems arise, and that they need the 3/4" sealant joints -- in this case the sealant was done everywhere.
    The only concerns I had (which seemed pretty minor) was that at one of the expansion joints (along the 2nd floor rim joist area) was slightly cracking, and that the downspout clamps were screwed right into the wall w/o the sealant treatment.

    I thought this stuff was never going to show up in residential construction again... I was really surprised to see it, and I was at a loss as to how to tell my clients about the prior problems this stuff had w/o giving too much info that didn't really apply.

    Any info/ comments/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated
    Sincerely,
    Stefan McGuire
    You are looking at a new generation EIFS system with a moisture resistant wrap (looks like Stucco Wrap). You should ask the builder what brand they used and then contact the manufacturer for their specific installation guidelines. They might even have them on their website.

    A concern I have is the exposed fiberglass mesh and that drip edge does not look what I have seen with this type of EIFS system. Also you should not see the OSB substrate.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Stefan McGuire's Avatar
    Stefan McGuire Guest

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Thanks Scott,
    I asked a couple of my fellow inspectors here in Oregon about it and they all said the same thing... condemn it- however, I hate to just say something needs a further evaluation by a specialist just because this stuff had a problem in the past (before there was no rainscreen- they just applied the system direclty to the OSB sheathing)
    In my report I did mention the specific concerns I had and told them they need to be educated by the builder on this stuff and find out the warranty info since it may end coming back to haunt them in the future (like when they sell and the other inspector condemns it).
    All I know is, this stuff seems like a dumb idea and I really hope it doesn't start showing up more frequently again.

    The OSB wall recessed up from the drip edges about 3" it just looks flush from the camera angle -- is that still wrong?


  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    How can you condem something if you are not sure about it?
    How will you word it?

    "Don't buy the house because my fellow inspectors say not to."

    All the more reason to call in someone that knows about EIFS.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Portland, Or
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Stephan, call Tasi Watson (Siding Solutions) or MAtt Smith (Forensic) for further evaluation. Your calls were all good. I don't see any kick out at what appears to be siding flashing / roof / siding in one of them? I don't like OSB showing either. Refer the front for further evaluation.


  6. #6

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    There goes the insulating properties of the EIFS (barrier systems not legal in OR any more)......... at least it will drain well with the rain screen.

    I've never seen an EIFS rain screen installation, so I'm glad you posted the question. I happen to believe that this design will function well, but time will tell.


  7. #7
    Stefan McGuire's Avatar
    Stefan McGuire Guest

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    I guess the builder is guaranteeing the EIFS installation for 10 years, and was inspected by an independent EIFS inspector multiple times during installation (I guess Legend is providing that documentation to the buyer as well).
    I think I feel OK about it as long as the buyer has that paperwork to hang onto for when they sell (because you know it will be condemned by their buyer's inspection).

    Thanks for the advice everyone


  8. #8
    Stefan McGuire's Avatar
    Stefan McGuire Guest

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Frey View Post
    Stephan, call Tasi Watson (Siding Solutions) or MAtt Smith (Forensic) for further evaluation. Your calls were all good. I don't see any kick out at what appears to be siding flashing / roof / siding in one of them? I don't like OSB showing either. Refer the front for further evaluation.
    Thanks Paul, by-the-way, I got some really lousy feedback from one of my really good realtors last time I referred them -- who's this Matt Smith/ company?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    I especially liked the last photo! It just kind of stuck out in broad daylight...

    Fred Comb, ACI
    Mahtomedi, MN
    www.homeinspectionsofmn.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Portland, Or
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Stefan, you know how referrals go! I have recommended both these companies many times over the years and had mostly good comments. If a realtor has a POS house and she gets a bad report it is usually the fault of the inspector! Matt Smith (Forensic Inspections) does a good job but calls a spade a spade!! She probably had him look at some piece of ruski junk in Forest Heights that was leaking like a sieve. What do you do??


  11. #11
    Stefan McGuire's Avatar
    Stefan McGuire Guest

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    The bad feed back was about siding solutions -- It seems after Al Cohen left the the scene, the new person didn't quite reach the bar that was set by him, I don't know (never had any 1st hand interaction with them). This particular broker is a real staight shooter and said that they just gave him and the buyer a run-around about the siding issue. He felt they were a waste of money
    I will refer Forensic inspections next time, I've never heard of them before, Thanks again.


  12. #12

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    The bad feed back was about siding solutions -- It seems after Al Cohen left the the scene, the new person didn't quite reach the bar that was set by him, I don't know (never had any 1st hand interaction with them). This particular broker is a real staight shooter and said that they just gave him and the buyer a run-around about the siding issue. He felt they were a waste of money
    A gal from SS came out and did a EIFS inspection on a home I was inspecting several weeks ago, just before the rainy season hit. She used a wet wall detector when it had pretty much not rained all summer long-- what was she gonna find? After she completed her inspection and left, I found leak stains at the interior head of a window along the EIFS wall, so she was called back out the next day to look further (she found nothing wrong during the inspection). Her solution was to add more sealant in between the EIFS and window frame........

    There were several other glaring defects that I figure should have been noted, but were not. Then again, I'm no EIFS expert.


  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Marietta, GA
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    I recall that This Old House did a show a few seasons back where they renovated a mid-century modern home. The home was, I think, built in the 50s, and the team did a fairly massive renovation. The new exterior material they put on? EIFS! I was shocked. Of course, they had reps from EIFS there to explain how EIFS had gotten a bad name when really the only issue was poor installation. And as long as you followed the installation instructions to the T, all would be well.

    I thought that was like saying, "Here's a book on open heart surgery. Just follow the instructions, and you'll do fine."

    Granted, if I wanted a home with EIFS, having Tommy Silva build it would be the only way. But if you're already paying for his services, why not go with something that's not so complicated to build correctly.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson Beisel View Post
    ...And as long as you followed the installation instructions to the T, all would be well.

    I thought that was like saying, "Here's a book on open heart surgery. Just follow the instructions, and you'll do fine."
    All due respect, it's basic elementary construction. But, apparently many contractors (still) don't read (or understand) the instructions! If one does not understand the basic science involved in a "drainage plane" they should think twice about being a siding contractor, until they understand.

    For now, I know my job is secure!

    Fred Comb, ACI
    Mahtomedi, MN
    www.homeinspectionsofmn.com

  15. #15
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    Aug 2008
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    San Antonio, TX
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    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    What you are seeing, if my resolution is good enough, at the bottom of the termination is a fluted trim, used to divert the moisture. It is installed under the building wrap, which I think I see a small corner. Impossible to tell who's wrap it is. I would guess that it is installed correctly, and screwed to the substrate with flexible weather barriers. I see a lot of it on hotels, which I inspect throughout construction. Building code does not require inspections on r1 to r4 construction, which is where the problems have been.

    EIFS is a good product, like anything else, attention to details.


  16. #16
    rick bunting's Avatar
    rick bunting Guest

    Default Re: EIFS on new residential const. in Oregon

    I'd really like to see some better pictures here, but from what I see it looks like the system is installed on furring and a true rainscreen stucco system is installed. If you look at the photo that shows the bottom it appears as though there is a space between the barrier and the back of the system. I think what you are seeing actual screening not reinforcing mesh as tpically used in EIFS, this screen is being used to keep vermin from entering the rainscreen cavity. The crack is typical of a crack that occurs at an L-bead when used (incorrectly)as a stop bead. Did you actually see EPS other than what was used for the trim? Looks like stucco at the botton where the hole is in the bead, fiber reinforced cementious base-coat strands evident????. Did you press on the system to determins if EPS was used in the field, or maybe geta spec from the builder on what they bought?
    I agree if you don't know what you're dealing with how do you condem it, more GOODERER pics would be a place to start, find a qualified inspector.


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