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Thread: Water tight?

  1. #1
    carl brown's Avatar
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    Default Water tight?

    Here is one, what is going to keep the water out?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by carl brown View Post
    Here is one, what is going to keep the water out?
    Don't worry about it, they didn't use any of those pesky brick ties that might cause the OSB to leak.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    A few years ago I saw a contractor putting siding on a new home without the building paper. I asked him about it and he told me that it wasn't his job to worry about it, someone told him the house was ready to be sided and that was good enough for him. even though he knew the paper should have been on. It's really discouraging to see people knowingly do their work wrong and not care about it.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Over the summer I replaced the kitchen window in my 1979 house.... when we bought a few years ago the seller was honest enough to tell me it had leaked a couple years before and he had a contractor out but wasn't particularly impressed or confident with the repair... but it hadn't leaked since.

    So, I always knew it could be a problem and finally got around to tearing the siding off to redo the window. Well, low and behold.... no tar paper!! Not even a scrap around the window. There was some nearby below it but apparently they ran out.... and it was Friday.... and they needed to get done.... and so on.

    Surprisingly, the plywood sheathing was water stained but not rotted at all and there was really no damage. It looked as though water regularly got behind the vertical cedar siding but didn't linger enough to cause damage.

    Not that I'm advocating no weather barrier..... I just had a good laugh when I tore the siding off


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Sad....it is all too common, what Eric said or a builder that will cut any corner he can get away with to save a dollar. People like this are the very reason that in my city/county we have a 'house wrap' inspection.

    BTW the 1 1/2" mortar joints are a nice compliment to the picture.


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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    Surprisingly, the plywood sheathing was water stained but not rotted at all and there was really no damage. It looked as though water regularly got behind the vertical cedar siding but didn't linger enough to cause damage.

    Not that I'm advocating no weather barrier..... I just had a good laugh when I tore the siding off
    If you had OSB sheathing on your walls instead of plywood, you might not have been laughing. Water soaks in to OSB and stays there. It is unforgivable to build an OSB house without a wrap.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    BTW the 1 1/2" mortar joints are a nice compliment to the picture.
    What? You expect them to actually cut the brick to shape?

    There is sooooo much wrong there it is hard to figure out what goes at the top of the list - would it be:
    a) The fact that there is no house wrap, or
    b) the fact that there is no 1" minimum air space between the brick and the wall (the mortar is not allowed to bridge that space either), or
    c) (everything else we can see or has already been posted), or
    d) that a), b), and c) indicate that the builder does not know what they are doing and therefore EVERYTHING ELSE is suspect too? Even if the builder did not do this and his mason did, shame on the builder for not understanding the very basic 'keep my structure dry' concept necessary for longevity of the structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    If you had OSB sheathing on your walls instead of plywood, you might not have been laughing. Water soaks in to OSB and stays there. It is unforgivable to build an OSB house without a wrap.
    It is unforgivable to build ANYTHING frame structure (other than a dog house, tree house, etc.) without an adequately designed and installed weather barrier system, whether that be building wrap or some other approved and tested method.

    I think the builder, the mason, and everyone involved with that installation should be summarily shot on sight ... and depending on how involved and how far up the food chain they are would be the deciding factor on what was used to shoot them. i.e., the laborer 'who knows nothing' should be shot with some common sense 'think about what you are doing, man'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    I agree with Jerry. The rest of the builder's subs should be suspect as well.

    I recently did a phase inspection (custom home). The siding is a concrete fiber board. The house wrap.....wasn't there. When I signed on to inspect this home, the builder said he was a great builder, blah, blah, blah...

    When I told him he should've wrapped the house, he told me the foam insulator told him house wrap wasn't necessary! He said he would've put it on b/c it wouldn't have cost very much, but.... Not only, the cement fiber board wasn't flashed properly anywhere (doors, windows, butt flashing, etc....) Exposed OSB everywhere!!

    He wasn't very happy with me. His clients weren't very happy with him.

    The kicker is that I sent him my checklists 1 month prior to ground-breaking and told him to pass them along to his subs.

    Jerry, I thought about you. I remembered a post where you told the builder to just tear the house down and start over again.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Piece-work, the pneumatic nailer, and power saws destroyed carpentry and the art of home building.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  10. #10
    Bert de Haan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I think the builder, the mason, and everyone involved with that installation should be summarily shot on sight .......
    We did a job once in a bush. Part way through the day a hunter came through the site with a gun slung over his shoulder. I said to him: I sure hope you are not the building inspector.
    If ever in a situation like that again I will say: I sure hope you are not the building inspector or Jerry Peck!


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    Default Re: Water tight?

    That may not be the worst I have ever seen but it sure is close. I would walk away from that house in a hurry. Along with all the problems with the brick veneer, I also blow my gasket when I see toe boards used improperly like in photo three. I can almost guarantee problems with the roof on that house along with everything else. Terrible, terrible.


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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Hey Carl, Kind of like this one.
    Amazing.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Russell View Post
    Hey Carl, Kind of like this one.
    Amazing.


    A 10 dollar kickout and 2 minutes to install it!


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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Russell View Post
    Hey Carl, Kind of like this one.
    Amazing.
    Peter - May I use your 2 pictures? I'll gladly insert credit to you and you company.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Water tight?


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Peter,

    I like these too!

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by carl brown View Post
    A 10 dollar kickout and 2 minutes to install it!
    Yes you may, thank you for asking
    Pete


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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by carl brown View Post
    Carl, I like it, we should start are own contractors school and show some of these guys how to do it right !!!!!


  19. #19

    Default Re: Water tight?

    Adding my own example of a well flashed window on an "executive home".

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    Egbert Jager
    Diamond Home Inspection
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert Jager View Post
    Adding my own example of a well flashed window on an "executive home".
    I love it when they nail or glue some Azek or MDF trim around the window on top of the concrete and don't even bother to caulk around it. I have seen plain ole painted wood used too.

    Well, I believe the IRC says flashing over "wood" components that extend past the surface of the wall. So if it isn't wood does that mean it's "built to code"?

    My other favorite is J-channel and caulking in lieu of flashing.

    One of these days I'm going to the head honchos of the various AHJ offices around the area and ask them about some of this stuff just to see what I get for an answer

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Here's a good example of bad building practices. I have found that most of the time the subs are not getting paid the correct square foot price to do the job correctly. Not an excuse, just reality.

    Many houses that where built in the last ten years or so have been trimmed with FJP and the lack of painting results in premature failure as seen in these photos.

    The house pictured here is ten years old.

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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Russell View Post
    Here's a good example of bad building practices. I have found that most of the time the subs are not getting paid the correct square foot price to do the job correctly. Not an excuse, just reality.

    Many houses that where built in the last ten years or so have been trimmed with FJP and the lack of painting results in premature failure as seen in these photos.

    The house pictured here is ten years old.
    If you think the ( painters ) are not getting paid enough, you are wrong.
    The subs that are doing those spotty jobs are, cash, not training properly( new to the trade ) hung over, and I can give you a thousands reasons why (the SUBS) as you put it, are doing spotty work.
    I have been a tradesmen for 35 years now and counting. Started in 1976.
    I have seen it all.THAT deception you talk of. ( STILL GOES ON ).
    I left company's that worked like.
    You are not forced to do bad workmanship.
    "YOU CHOOSE TO."
    SO WHEN YOU SEE UNPROFESSIONAL WORK, BLAME IT ON THE ONES THAT WANT TO STAY IGNORANT.
    The foreman knows better the builder knows better the painter knows better.
    So now you know why I got into home inspection.
    I get so sick of seeing people " home owner and home buyers " get ripped off.
    You tell me how can you stay in business if you change 4 quarters for a dollar.
    Been in business for 12 years now.
    Own a facade restoration business. Roofer, bricklayer journeyman card and apprentice cement finisher.Worked all the interior trades in the winter.
    To help the costumer =home buyer. I hope you are not doing that job after you inspected it.? Your SOP remember!!!!
    I SEE A SAW. Small table saw MATE.
    Just kidding. HA HA HA
    HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 01-01-2011 at 07:23 AM. Reason: editing
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Russell View Post
    Hey Carl, Kind of like this one.
    Amazing.
    That you Russel.
    Happy New year mate.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Robert, Not sure how things are done up in Canada but down here in NH the painters are not carpenters and visa verse. That's why the window trim was dado'd out and installed without being painted. I have never seen a trim carpenter who got paid enough to fabricate his window trim and then send it over to the painter to get a couple of coats of primer before being installed.

    In this particular sub division the developer spent a lot of money on site development, IE, the roads, water system, lot development ETC. Problem then is there is not enough money to pay the subs what their worth and still hit his profit margin, then what happens is the good subs don't want the job so they get guys with less experience who will work for less.

    For instance, this development the framers were getting somewhere around 4.50-5.00 per square foot to frame when these house's would normally pay 8.00-8.50 per square foot


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Water tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Russell View Post
    Robert, Not sure how things are done up in Canada but down here in NH the painters are not carpenters and visa verse. That's why the window trim was dado'd out and installed without being painted. I have never seen a trim carpenter who got paid enough to fabricate his window trim and then send it over to the painter to get a couple of coats of primer before being installed.

    In this particular sub division the developer spent a lot of money on site development, IE, the roads, water system, lot development ETC. Problem then is there is not enough money to pay the subs what their worth and still hit his profit margin, then what happens is the good subs don't want the job so they get guys with less experience who will work for less.

    For instance, this development the framers were getting somewhere around 4.50-5.00 per square foot to frame when these house's would normally pay 8.00-8.50 per square foot
    Thanks Peter I did not get the gest of the observations being made.
    I will state again, when you work for less than market value you are only killing your own industry.
    So the general contractor dumps out homes not worth there value?
    Think he is not making money? HA HA HAS RIGHT!!!
    Now where is the oversight.
    Code inspectors, and all that chain of command put in place to protect the works to the buyers.
    Bought and paid for. Grafffffffffffffffffff.
    PEOPLE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT TO STOP THIS ABUSE.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

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