Thread: Window fogged to the max

Anyone ever seen a window as bad as this one? It looks like mineral deposits.



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Originally Posted by JB Thompson

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Anyone ever seen a window as bad as this one? It looks like mineral deposits.

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If those Windows are from the same property as your Water Heater Post you might consider gas combustion byproducts as a cause.

* plus a quick search of any reported missing persons or Bodies associated with this address.
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Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

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If those Windows are from the same property as your Water Heater Post you might consider gas combustion byproducts as a cause.

* plus a quick search of any reported missing persons or Bodies associated with this address.
.

Same house, though the water heater was a "fer piece" from the windows.

Looks like applied "fake snow", "flocking" or soap/starch/glitter mixture to the exterior & possibly the interior side from winter (i.e. xmas) decorating.

In the past "glass wax" was also used for the faux effect. Stuff comes in spray cans now and also one can use liquid starch + ivory snow flakes + glitter and whip up a flocking compound which can also be applied to windows.

For example: How to Decorate Windows With Fake Snow | eHow.com

The pic from your series shown below, seems to show this is at least partially on the exterior (accumulations at base and middle)..perhaps bad seal under pressure applied got between panes...Looks like some has been inadvertantly scraped off in areas, try wiping with a dampened soft cloth.

Though the window did look as if it had been decorated for Christmas, all of the "snow" was in between the panes. None of it on the exterior or the interior.

There were no cracks in any of the glass panes.

So....I'm still open for suggestions. Like I said before, I'm thinking mineral deposits but the glass would have had to develop a really bad seal leak to get that much condensation in between the glass.

Originally Posted by JB Thompson

all of the "snow" was in between the panes.

Failed windows = replace windows.

As to 'what' that stuff is, break one of the windows after it is removed and find out.

I've seen milder cases of that, must be mineral deposits, but nothing like what you got there in Texas!

I see similar degrees of that quite often. I'm guessing the combination of heat, dessicants, aluminum frame and who knows what they used for the edge seal.
Bottom line though it must be replaced so it does not matter what caused the problem.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

I see similar degrees of that quite often. I'm guessing the combination of heat, dessicants, aluminum frame and who knows what they used for the edge seal.
Bottom line though it must be replaced so it does not matter what caused the problem.

agreed, but I still have my professional curiosity

JB,
The degree of seal failure and the amount of exterior infiltration causing the condensation is a function of size of seal failure and time. A small failure just takes longer.

Was the interior side of the internalized grids painted white ?

How did the glass spacers on the perimeter appear ?

Is there a heat vent/radiator under window or a vent in ceiling above the window ?

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

JB,
The degree of seal failure and the amount of exterior infiltration causing the condensation is a function of size of seal failure and time. A small failure just takes longer.

Was the interior side of the internalized grids painted white ?

How did the glass spacers on the perimeter appear ?

Is there a heat vent/radiator under window or a vent in ceiling above the window ?

None of the above.

the divided spacers (some) were slightly discolored as if they'd been wet then heated (faded).

Seller stated that his home inspector mentioned it 4 yrs ago. Seller had a Lowe's window guy come out and said that it wasn't due to seal failure.....

I think he must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the night before.

JB,
Lowes guy may have had his Beer Goggles on. Surprised he didn't want to take it home with him thinking it was a mini Meth Lab.

Which direction does the window face ? N S E W ?

Is there any roof overhang ?

I've seen almost that bad in windows and sliding doors. Now that I think of it, they were older aluminum sash/frame windows. Off-gassing from oxidation of aluminum?

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

JB,
Lowes guy may have had his Beer Goggles on. Surprised he didn't want to take it home with him thinking it was a mini Meth Lab.

Which direction does the window face ? N S E W ?

Is there any roof overhang ?

North facing. Standard overhang - about 18 inches

I see an opportunity to learn. Please, explain the relevance of the roof eave overhang to fogging from a damaged window seal? Thanks.

A major contributor to "seal failure" is poor caulking on the outside of windows. In most cases, as gravity naturally drives the moisture down to the base of the window it collects on the adhesive that bonds the bottom seal to the glass surfaces. Over time the internal pressure created by Solar Pumping and sustained moisture will cause the adhesive between the glass and spacer bar to separate. (i.e., seal failure). Regular maintenance like caulking, and if necessary painting, will greatly reduce seal failure, window saturation, and ultimately extend the life of the window.

The products around your window will determine what the moisture looks like on the interior of a failed glass pac. The mineral deposits are most likely caused by the brick and mortar(Efflorescence).

Originally Posted by Paul Phillips

A major contributor to "seal failure" is poor caulking on the outside of windows. In most cases, as gravity naturally drives the moisture down to the base of the window it collects on the adhesive that bonds the bottom seal to the glass surfaces. Over time the internal pressure created by Solar Pumping and sustained moisture will cause the adhesive between the glass and spacer bar to separate. (i.e., seal failure). Regular maintenance like caulking, and if necessary painting, will greatly reduce seal failure, window saturation, and ultimately extend the life of the window.

The products around your window will determine what the moisture looks like on the interior of a failed glass pac. The mineral deposits are most likely caused by the brick and mortar(Efflorescence).

Thanks for all of the information. Where did you find that?

Originally Posted by Darrel Hood

I see an opportunity to learn. Please, explain the relevance of the roof eave overhang to fogging from a damaged window seal? Thanks.

Like you say, a learning opportunity. Glass seal has failed, no question there. Replacement of glass (to correct) required. Repair of glass is not practical. The cost of reusing the glass and any salvageable materials is not cost effective.

I wanted to understand the relative amount of heat and its distribution during the day. Such as rapid increase, gradual increase and duration. Understanding the dynamics of the installation. The fact that the unit is a single hung metal window may have some bearing on glass, but unlikely.

Have seen glass failure that has had the same appearance on the glass, but the amount of crystal flakes build up at the bottom is interesting (haven't seen that). In the past I have just assumed that it was a mineral buildup onto the glass and left it at that. It is the flakes that have caught my interest. I would have thought that the flakes would have redissolved and would have formed a solid.

Without the opportunity to test the crystalline buildup at bottom of the insulated glass to determine composition. I have been working on determining what the crystals may be and how they developed. First thinking is that the flat crystalline flakes are the result of flaking off the glass as it builds up on the glass surface. The chemical reaction that has been taking place over the past 4+ years is what has peeked my interest. The descants that are used typically are fairly inert. Typically after that long of a period failure mold starts to form, though none is apparent.

Not sure when I will make contact with my factory source or chemist buds to have a good discussion and get some opinions. But, will let you know what I find out.

Paul,
If the IG (insulated glass) had the correct amount of desiccant and the IG unit was correctly sealed and the unit heated to cause the desicant to absorb the moisture where is the moisture coming from to effect the seal? Unless, it is that the edge seal to the IG that is at question, as to material and application method of that edge seal. Most sashes have a gasket that is used to seal the sash to the IG.. I have not seen all possible ways to manufacture IG and the different methods of sash fabrication. I just do not understand what could be caulked that would have an additional affect on maintaining the integrity of the IG.

I am also curious what caused the thick crusting? But, chasing that answer is not as important as understanding and clearly being able to explain why it happens to someone else. The best resource for an answer will be found at Chicago Window Expert.

Nothing man-made has nor will last forever...It's why we are.

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