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  1. #1
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    Default Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    I inspected a manufactured home where the carport had been enclosed as a garage. Is the standard side door which is now the garage entry door considered to be fire rated? (Perhaps I should be asking the same question about the wall.... And the skirting.)

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni Shaw View Post
    I inspected a manufactured home where the carport had been enclosed as a garage. Is the standard side door which is now the garage entry door considered to be fire rated? (Perhaps I should be asking the same question about the wall.... And the skirting.)
    Nope if it's the standard foam core door with a thin fiberglass skin.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    Nope if it's the standard foam core door with a thin fiberglass skin.
    ........you're correct to cite the entire wall assembly-none of it meets fire seperation standards..........Greg.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Depends ...

    First thing to keep in mind is that normal building codes *are not applicable* to mobile homes.

    Second thing to keep I mind is that the normal building codes *are applicable* to the garage addition.

    Third thing to keep in mind is that the garage should be constructed as a separate free-standing structure with the only connection to the mobile home being the flashings between the two independent structures.

    What are the separation requirements for the mobile home? Are there any?

    The final thing to keep in mind for your client's knowledge is whether or no a fire in that garage will be any different than a fire in a garage which is attached to a regular house ... and, code or no code, how do you explain the difference to your client while knowing that the mobile home will burn down *faster*?

    Now, add in the fact that, in the normal codes, carports are treated the same as garages.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 10-27-2012 at 09:34 AM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post

    Now, add in the fact that, in the normal codes, carports are treated the same as garages.
    Are you sure about that?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Depends ...

    First thing to keep in mind is that normal building codes *are not applicable* to mobile homes.

    Second thing to keep I mind is that the normal building codes *are applicable* to the garage addition.

    Third thing to keep in mind is that the garage should be constructed as a separate free-standing structure with the only connection to the mobile home being the flashings between the two independent structures.

    What are the separation requirements for the mobile home? Are there any?

    The final thing to keep in mind for your client's knowledge is whether or no a fire in that garage will be any different than a fire in a garage which is attached to a regular house ... and, code or no code, how do you explain the difference to your client while knowing that the mobile home will burn down *faster*?

    Now, add in the fact that, in the normal codes, carports are treated the same as garages.
    .............you ought to move into the 21st century, and understand that today's manufactured home is not your father's mobile home, or your gramma's trailer.........Greg.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    Rick,

    I thought I was ... ... but after going back and reading it again, no, carports do not require the same separation in the IRC as garages do.

    One more thing I remember from the old days that went the way of the dinosaur when the codes changed to the ICC codes and, not having seen a new house constructed with a carport in over 30 years I "assumed" that had not changed - but it had - and I had apparently not looked it up because I had no need to.

    Oops!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Rick,

    I thought I was ... ... but after going back and reading it again, no, carports do not require the same separation in the IRC as garages do.

    One more thing I remember from the old days that went the way of the dinosaur when the codes changed to the ICC codes and, not having seen a new house constructed with a carport in over 30 years I "assumed" that had not changed - but it had - and I had apparently not looked it up because I had no need to.

    Oops!
    Whew.. Thanks for clairifing that..
    I've done 500ish homes with carports and I don't believe any of them had firedoors, and 90%ish had windows on the carport side, or non-fire rated siding ..

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    Whew.. Thanks for clairifing that..
    I've done 500ish homes with carports and I don't believe any of them had firedoors, and 90%ish had windows on the carport side, or non-fire rated siding ..
    In new installations in California when I see a "garage" next to a mfd. home ( 76' and newer) the door and the wall to the garage are fire rated. If a garage is installed on a mobile home (71'-75') the it must meet the regualtions at the time of the build, usually meaning a fire rated wall and door all instances only attached at the flashings (as previously stated).

    A carport (not a garage but an aluminum awning or wood cover) has ventilation requirements and cannot be completely closed. Here the fire rating is not required, windows are allowed.

    Greg Filian
    http://www.MobileHomeInspectors.com
    714 612-3564

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni Shaw View Post
    I inspected a manufactured home where the carport had been enclosed as a garage. Is the standard side door which is now the garage entry door considered to be fire rated? (Perhaps I should be asking the same question about the wall.... And the skirting.)
    No, no, and no.

    Greg Filian
    http://www.MobileHomeInspectors.com
    714 612-3564

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Thanks for the answers and feedback! One of the things that makes this board so valuable is that there always much more knowledge and info in the answers and responses than sought in the original question. For a rookie, that makes it priceless. (Also continues to remind me how much there is to learn... every day.) Thanks all around!


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Correct me if I am wrong. I see a garage door and three sides. Enclosed garage. The intent of the code is to protect life. The garage,living space seperation is the time to allow life to escape a disaster. Can this be considered differently? The client needs to be aware of the safety issues. In my code book a 1/2" sheetrock seperation with a fire rated door is required


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Cline View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong. I see a garage door and three sides. Enclosed garage. The intent of the code is to protect life. The garage,living space seperation is the time to allow life to escape a disaster. Can this be considered differently? The client needs to be aware of the safety issues. In my code book a 1/2" sheetrock seperation with a fire rated door is required
    I thought 5/8 Type X sheetrock was required on the garage side of a wall.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    I thought 5/8 Type X sheetrock was required on the garage side of a wall.
    I believe 5/8 Type X is required on the ceiling when there is habitable space built over the garage. 1/2 is what is required on the walls.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    I believe 5/8 Type X is required on the ceiling when there is habitable space built over the garage. 1/2 is what is required on the walls.
    Nope....5/8" Type X on walls or doubled 1/2" on walls. All joints taped and bedded.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    The nice and dry paper, coated... with petroleum (insulation) on the ceiling is also appealing and should burn hot enough to roast weenies from the lot across the street.

    With something like this I would and do call out a couple of the problems, and then "judicially" point out, you suspect that this enclosure was not constructed under a required building permit and that it is a major concern with regard to safety. It will be a major expense for the client to bring it up to "acceptable standards"...Now see, I did that without ever saying the "C-word".


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Larry makes a good point. Giving too much opinion has it's own risk.
    Having said that, for edification, the IRC states in 309.2 that 1/2" gypsum board or equivalent is required on garage side. This is stated in R302.6 in the CRC (California) and includes carports. If we are to quote codes, it is a good idea to procure an applicable code book, or at least a code reference booklet.
    Just for reference, I received my contractors license in California in '92 after 11 years in the trades. I have been a certified building inspector since 2000 and have certifications in the legacy UBC and current IRC/IBC codes.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    Nope....5/8" Type X on walls or doubled 1/2" on walls. All joints taped and bedded.
    I just looked it up in the 2006 Virginia Building Code and the 2012 IRC.

    Both codes cite what I originally wrote above.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Cline View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong. I see a garage door and three sides. Enclosed garage. The intent of the code is to protect life. The garage,living space seperation is the time to allow life to escape a disaster. Can this be considered differently? The client needs to be aware of the safety issues. In my code book a 1/2" sheetrock seperation with a fire rated door is required
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    I thought 5/8 Type X sheetrock was required on the garage side of a wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    I believe 5/8 Type X is required on the ceiling when there is habitable space built over the garage. 1/2 is what is required on the walls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    Nope....5/8" Type X on walls or doubled 1/2" on walls. All joints taped and bedded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    I just looked it up in the 2006 Virginia Building Code and the 2012 IRC.

    Both codes cite what I originally wrote above.
    I'm not sure where all of the above numbers are coming from, maybe some local code (?), but the following is from the 2012 IRC:
    - R302.6 Dwelling/garage fire separation.
    - - The garage shall be separated as required by Table R302.6. Openings in garage walls shall comply with Section R302.5. This provision does not apply to garage walls that are perpendicular to the adjacent dwelling unit wall.
    - - - TABLE R302.6 DWELLING/GARAGE SEPARATION
    - - - - SEPARATION
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - MATERIAL
    - - - - From the residence and attics
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the garage side
    - - - - From all habitable rooms above the garage
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Not less than 5/8-inch Type X gypsum board or equivalent
    - - - - Structure(s) supporting floor/ceiling assemblies used for separation required by this section
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent
    - - - - Garages located less than 3 feet from a dwelling unit on the same lot
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the interior side of exterior walls that are within this area
    (hopefully the above somewhat resembles the table in the code - the words are copied and pasted, but the rows and columns did not copy and past as rows and columns)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    My comments were based on what we do around here.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Thank you Lon, Jerry, and Robert,
    You have helped point out a problem with an inspectors opinion and a code quote. In California most builders still sheet the garage side of the common wall with 5/8" because it is what they have always done (per the UBC). The current code only requires 1/2", per Table R302.6 in the CRC and (I believe) Section 309.2 in the IRC (don't have reference in front of me). Local codes can require more (never less if IRC adopted). So best to leave code quoting out if unfamiliar, or take a code class from a local instructor.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Many States have separate codes for manufactured/mobile homes. In California it is Title 25 (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/codes/mp/MPReg...s2-18-2011.pdf) which still requires the garage wall adjacent to the unit to be "...constructed of materials approved for one (1) hour fire-resistant construction...", which means 5/8" type 'x' gyp board. Even the definition of a carport is different in Title 25 than the IRC (2 sides 50% open vs 2 sides entirely open). Title 25 supercedes the IRC/CRC for manufactured homes in California.

    Last edited by Thom Huggett; 10-30-2012 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Additional information.
    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Correct Thom,
    Although, the construction of an "attached" garage would require a letter from the manufacturer for the additional load carried. Title 25 does govern the manufactured home. The IRC and local codes, (CRC in california), would govern the site built garage.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Cline View Post
    Correct Thom,
    Although, the construction of an "attached" garage would require a letter from the manufacturer for the additional load carried. Title 25 does govern the manufactured home. The IRC and local codes, (CRC in california), would govern the site built garage.
    I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, William.

    1000 of Title 25 states:
    "...the provisions of this chapter shall apply to the construction, use, maintenance, and occupancy of mobilehome parks, mobilehome and special occupancy lots, permanent buildings, accessory buildings or structures, and building components wherever located, both within and outside of mobilehome parks, in all parts of the state."

    Title 25 supercedes CRC for manufactured home installations, including building accessory to them. HCD is responsible for adoption of all residential codes in California, both the CRC and Title 25, and they specifically separate the code requirements for manufactured homes, and their accessory structures, from site built homes.


    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Thank you Thomas,
    Appreciate the education without condescension. Looks like I have another discussion topic for code class.
    Some interesting items I noticed, ( may not apply to Oni's case in Oregon).
    Section 1443(a) indicates that the openings adjacent to the building that are not 1hr. rated require a 3 foot separation, if construction is not 1hr. rated, a 6 foot separation.
    1443(b)- a 3 ft separation from lot lines, not bordering roadway.
    1443(c)- requires garage to be freestanding.
    Am I interpreting that correctly?


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    William,

    Yes, that's right on all counts. The Title 25 requirements do not necessarily keep up with the currently adopted building code, although they do get upgraded from time to time. When I first encountered them in the 1980's they were still at 1950's standards! The garage must have a separate fire separation wall constructed adjacent to the MH, and not supported on the MH. Same for awnings and porches, unless specifically approved by the State. If a homeowner wants to make a modification to the MH, they must be go to Sacramento to have it approved and permitted by HCD (in California, that is).

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    A little more thread drift.....

    Just a little information as to why everything needs to be independent of a manufactured home...

    The MH are designed to only support their own weight, their wall framing system is not strong enough to support additional structures. I can't tell you how many MH I have seen with bowing walls due to porches, carports, etc being attached to the structure.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Manufactured Home Door Fire Rated?

    Here in Washington if there is any modification to the MH it has to be permitted via the L&I who has jurisdiction on MHs. This includes even adding a AC unit.

    Like many here state no ancillary structure can be bearing on the original structure unless it has been engineered and signed off.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

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