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  1. #1
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
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    Default Energy Audits Included ?

    A well established and respected area inspector shared a "feeler request" he recently received from a local Realtor lobbyist. They / the Realtors are wanting energy efficiency data included in Home Inspections and soliciting input - - - pro, con and/or how that might look in a report. Wat U Thank ?

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  2. #2
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    The Realtors should have no input on what a home inspection is or isn't or what should be included on an inspection or not.

    An energy audit will double the cost of a home inspection and will have to have two separate inspections and reports. A home inspection is inclusive in many areas of the energy end of things. Poor insulation, poor windows, poor caulking poor HVAC systems etc. etc etc.

    This would also force all home inspectors to more than likely get certified in the energy auditing business or simply lose all the work on the fact that another inspector already is certified in both. I think it is not the Realtors business to be dictating what any other business has to do with the sale of Real property. They need to be finding and showing properties to their clients and leave the rest of the business to others. Like seriously. The electrical efficiency of appliances staying behind. A blower test. They simply need to stay out of any inspection business all togehter. It is not their business. The separation has become more prevalant over the years and they still keep thinking on how they can stay in the inspection business. Didn't you folks recently have to get licensed?

    A Realtor lobbyist? needs to stay involved in Realtors business. Not everyone elses business.


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    The Realtors should have no input on what a home inspection is or isn't or what should be included on an inspection or not.

    An energy audit will double the cost of a home inspection and will have to have two separate inspections and reports. A home inspection is inclusive in many areas of the energy end of things. Poor insulation, poor windows, poor caulking poor HVAC systems etc. etc etc.

    This would also force all home inspectors to more than likely get certified in the energy auditing business or simply lose all the work on the fact that another inspector already is certified in both. I think it is not the Realtors business to be dictating what any other business has to do with the sale of Real property. They need to be finding and showing properties to their clients and leave the rest of the business to others. Like seriously. The electrical efficiency of appliances staying behind. A blower test. They simply need to stay out of any inspection business all togehter. It is not their business. The separation has become more prevalant over the years and they still keep thinking on how they can stay in the inspection business. Didn't you folks recently have to get licensed?

    A Realtor lobbyist? needs to stay involved in Realtors business. Not everyone elses business.
    I agree with Ted 100% on this. I don't want realtors having any say or influence in regard to what should be included in an inspection and report any more than they want me involved in the negotiation process or settlement. Realtors should stick to the sales end of things and leave it at that. This just sounds like a way for realtors in that area to start having some control of the inspection process. No thank you.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Blankenship View Post
    A well established and respected area inspector shared a "feeler request" he recently received from a local Realtor lobbyist. They / the Realtors are wanting energy efficiency data included in Home Inspections and soliciting input - - - pro, con and/or how that might look in a report. Wat U Thank ?
    Garry, you need to post this over on The Inspectors Journal. I'm sure Mike O will have several paragraphs of comments on this since he serves on the WA home inspector board.

    My personal take is that the agents should not have any say in what the report or inspection should cover. Energy rating and home inspections are two totally different animals.

    I would ask the agents what are they going to do when they discover that about 80% of the homes they are selling are not energy efficient and are in need of correction!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    .......

    I would ask the agents what are they going to do when they discover that about 80% of the homes they are selling are not energy efficient and are in need of correction!
    True dat.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    I agree with the others but keep in mind "energy efficiency data" isn't necessarily an "energy audit".

    A true energy audit involves blower doors, duct blasters, etc. Energy efficiency data could be as simple as insulation R-Value, thermal pane window presence and other stuff we already put in our reports. I've actually thought of adding a section to my report to incluce a basic look at the energy efficiency of the house.

    In my area a lot of window salesman and other contractors run around offering free "energy reviews". I recently chased one off my front porch who swore he wasn't sellling anything... just "giving away" free energy reviews.


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    The Realtors should have no input on what a home inspection is or isn't or what should be included on an inspection or not.
    I agree, but ...

    An energy audit will double the cost of a home inspection ...
    What to heck is wrong with that?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I agree, but ...



    What to heck is wrong with that?
    The problem with that in my area is that buyers like the idea of additional tests and services.......until they find out they have to pay for them.

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I agree, but ...



    What to heck is wrong with that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    The problem with that in my area is that buyers like the idea of additional tests and services.......until they find out they have to pay for them.
    Okay ... point taken - would that cause the buyers to then NOT have it inspected at all?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Okay ... point taken - would that cause the buyers to then NOT have it inspected at all?
    No, but they would either opt out of the additional service if that was an option or they would just find somebody who is will do everything and charge less. It's amazing how much buyers around here will spend on a house but they'll let $10-$20 decide who will inspect their house.

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    I have never, not once, been asked about an energy audit. I know some guys with the equipment and they get business, but even they admit that Joe and Sue Average won't spend money that way.

    It absolutely should not be required........so no doubt someone will make it required. There is an attempt here right now to make radon testing required so something like this is sure to be next.

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    If energy audits were required or expected, I would get properly trained and do them. It would mean more work for me and a higher income. I don't see a downside. If there is was a market for them around here, I would have already taken the plunge and be offering the service as a supplemental. There isn't and I haven't.

    I see no problem in responding to the question with a straight answer. "An energy audit will increase the cost of a home inspection".

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    If the state of PA wanted energy audits included, I'm OK with that. But I don't want the PA realtor board making that call.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    My bad; I got the jest pretty good, but misinturpreted where the interest in this energy data is coming from, ( it's NOT the bad Realtors Ted ). Scott, all area heavy-weights are in the loop. Recent dialogue "
    I would like to have a conference call with at least you three, and any other folks from your industry to discuss the bill. It is clear from a couple of the emails Larry received that there are some misconceptions about what we seeking to achieve. Realtors goal with this bill is to prevent costly mandates like energy audits, thermal imaging, blower door tests, energy rating systems, etc. from being imposed in real estate transactions. These types of costly mandates are being proposed at the local and legislative levels, and we believe the industry and consumers are being served by putting forward legislation that makes some sense. By including some discussion of energy efficiency information in home inspection reports, we think it benefits consumers by using a process that our members advise their clients to use, and which occurs 80% of the time. Importantly, we don’t want the Legislature to mandate what the inspection report must say about energy efficiency, which is why we leave those details up to your industry to determine through the home inspector licensing advisory board. "


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Blankenship View Post
    . Realtors goal with this bill is to prevent costly mandates like energy audits, thermal imaging, blower door tests, energy rating systems, etc. from being imposed in real estate transactions.. "
    Good for the Realtors. Of course, they probably don't want it because energy audits are likely to create yet another problem in completing a home purchase, but regardless of their motivation, things like this or radon testing, should not be mandatory. It's great to recommend these things, but to require them, is wrong.

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  16. #16
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Blankenship View Post
    My bad; I got the jest pretty good, but misinturpreted where the interest in this energy data is coming from, ( it's NOT the bad Realtors Ted ). Scott, all area heavy-weights are in the loop. Recent dialogue "
    I would like to have a conference call with at least you three, and any other folks from your industry to discuss the bill. It is clear from a couple of the emails Larry received that there are some misconceptions about what we seeking to achieve. Realtors goal with this bill is to prevent costly mandates like energy audits, thermal imaging, blower door tests, energy rating systems, etc. from being imposed in real estate transactions. These types of costly mandates are being proposed at the local and legislative levels, and we believe the industry and consumers are being served by putting forward legislation that makes some sense. By including some discussion of energy efficiency information in home inspection reports, we think it benefits consumers by using a process that our members advise their clients to use, and which occurs 80% of the time. Importantly, we don’t want the Legislature to mandate what the inspection report must say about energy efficiency, which is why we leave those details up to your industry to determine through the home inspector licensing advisory board. "
    So then. I am not sure at all what you want then. Home inspectors already write up poor insulation, ventilation, windows etc. Most also talk to their clients of the benefits of more insulation, getting the HVAC system running properly and efficiently, radiant barriers.

    I find no need to put anymore than that into a home inspection report. I see no need to even discusss mandates of energy audits and such. After a poor evaluation by a home inspector you folks could mention further inspecvtions such as energy audite if you wish.

    The complete wording of the original post left almost all believing that Realtors were going to have some input totaly out of there field of selling homes. I did not use the word bad Realtors. As a matter of fact I am quite sure that most, uh hum, Realtors are upstanding citizens looking out for their clients and not wanting to be involved in home inspection at all. I am quite sure as in this state Realtors are looking to separate themselves from the home inspection industry altogether. As a matter of fact year after year that separation becomes greater.

    I would say to leave it up to the home inspection industry as to who lobbys whom about anything to do with anykind of inspection. When any legistlature actually thinks about it for half a second they will find that eve3ry home on the market needs energy updates/upgrades etc. All this should fall on remodelling contracts or permit\s for insulation, windows etc.

    To add it to every home that is for sale is ludicrous. I believe they still do this in the South Texas area but as foolish as it may sound the audits were mandated but nothing had to be done after the fact. I will have to check on it but I do believe they dropped that.

    Just to add one more time. I am for the separation of selling homes and home inspection 100%. This does not mean I am saying there are a bunch of bad Realtors and inspectors out there. There are some and because of that some that always will be there should be a complete separation. S eparate the conflicts of interest and then no one has to worry about it anymore. If one gets caught crossing the line......remove their licesne. Once that happens even the bold will take hede.

    Back to Realtor lobbyists lobbying for the addition of, the non addition of, the content of anything to have to do with inspections or anything but selling homes is all a Realtor lobbyist should have anything to do with. Once they have a say in any of that the law has included them in the decision making and it will and always does get deeper from there. There is no good ending to that.

    What would be next. They dont like this or that mentioned in Home Inspection reports....precident already set?


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    If energy audits were required or expected, I would get properly trained and do them. It would mean more work for me and a higher income. I don't see a downside. If there is was a market for them around here, I would have already taken the plunge and be offering the service as a supplemental. There isn't and I haven't.

    I see no problem in responding to the question with a straight answer. "An energy audit will increase the cost of a home inspection".
    My thinking also.

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Aren't they doing something like this in Austin, TX?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Aren't they doing something like this in Austin, TX?
    Already touched on that


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    So then. I am not sure at all what you want then. ?
    I do not want anything - - - then. This whole include an energy audit thing is not coming from Realtors and I do not yet know who or what $ is behind it. Realtors do not want this possibility further complicating the sales process. They are trying to head this off with something relatively quick & easy to answer the legislative request / desire for a full energy work-up by working with us - - - not against us. Most of what is desired is already in our reports, ( visable insulation levels in attics & crawls, window types and ventilation. I think they want some specific verbiage showing what energy info. is addressed to make this energy audit legislation go away. If we don't like the evil Realtors approach, we can sick our own lobbyists on the issue, ( we do have a bunch of our own lobbyists don't we ? ). My personal response was that I did not want to see the H.I. profession become the dumping ground for potentially limitless data desires. As Jerry & others expouse, what's so bad about more work, more money?


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    In my little bit of experience, in this region a new requirement results only in more work and more risk, not more money. There are so many inspectors low balling prices that inspection market prices don't increase for any reason. Even when Texas required mini phase inspections for a few years, the bottom feeders drove prices so low that it was not profitable to do them.


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Actually the Department of Energy has developed such a thing and InterNACHI has a system where an energy report, which includes an energy rating something like that on new appliances can be available at very little cost. It is far from perfect but it was developed by the DOE's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. I think it does not take a number of things into account but it does give a buyer a way to compare two homes.

    InterNACHI's Home Energy Inspection Program - InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Sole View Post
    Actually the Department of Energy has developed such a thing and InterNACHI has a system where an energy report, which includes an energy rating something like that on new appliances can be available at very little cost. It is far from perfect but it was developed by the DOE's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. I think it does not take a number of things into account but it does give a buyer a way to compare two homes.
    Over the next year you should see the DOE program being rolled out through the DOE partners or providers, I believe the name it will be under is called the Home Energy Score. You can find the DOE partners on the DOE website Building Technologies Program: Home Energy Score Partners

    Both ASHI and INACHI are listed. Right now only one organization is listed as being able to provide this on a national basis.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 01-11-2013 at 07:56 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Garry, you need to post this over on The Inspectors Journal. I'm sure Mike O will have several paragraphs of comments on this since he serves on the WA home inspector board.

    My personal take is that the agents should not have any say in what the report or inspection should cover. Energy rating and home inspections are two totally different animals.

    I would ask the agents what are they going to do when they discover that about 80% of the homes they are selling are not energy efficient and are in need of correction!
    I strongly believe that anyone that stands to profit from the sale of a building should not be involved in the inspection process, especially in the selection of the inspector or anyone else that may effect the sale.

    But I see nothing wrong with including energy efficiency in the SOP. Yes, it will effect the fees. That may be a good thing.

    As far as the how the agents will handle the additional information effecting the sale, well I'm sure they will handle it the same way that they handle it now.

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  25. #25

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    I came up with an idea that I would market and include a free estimated energy rating report from InterNACHI with every home inspection to see if it would boost my business I am allready in the house doing my normal inspection, take a few more minutes to gather my data "15 min. max to complete energy report" if it doesn't boost biz I will stop offering it.


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    They tried energy audits here in Vegas. It required all the seller's energy bills I believe for the two years prior to the sale.
    That included gas, water, electric, ect. Seller's & buyer's had the option to opt out of the audit. Seller's were not about to give that info & buyer,s would not pay for it. It did not work out so they stopped it. Bottom line unless someone is willing to pay for it it's not going to work


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Scott Patterson writes
    Both ASHI and INACHI are listed. Right now only one organization is listed as being able to provide this on a national basis.
    The U.S. Department of Energy made InterNACHI their national partner today.

    ASHI was dropped and all mention of ASHI was deleted from the U.S. Department of Energy website.

    http://www.nachi.org/homeenergyscore.htm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Scott Patterson writes
    Both ASHI and INACHI are listed. Right now only one organization is listed as being able to provide this on a national basis.
    The U.S. Department of Energy made InterNACHI their national partner today.

    ASHI was dropped and all mention of ASHI was deleted from the U.S. Department of Energy website.

    http://www.nachi.org/homeenergyscore.htm

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    I really do not think realtors should be dictating what should be done in a home inspection - Although I do think a property survey and marking of boundaries is far more important than an energy audit.

    I do energy audits and have for the last 20 years but I do more commercial work than anything else. To really do a good energy audit takes significant amount of time and engineering knowledge. It requires metering and measuring everything. Then there is to what level - what is expected out of the audit ? energy star rating on a house , condo . barn ? - one problem with energy audits has to do with how the occupants use the property - I know people who sleep with a window open - even if it is -10 , well that is going to effect the bottom line on energy usage - so the buyer comes back and says / claims you gave them false rating and now they are paying much more - well the teen ager who leaves the lights on and the front door open in winter is not a factor. It really opens the door to much more useless litigation.

    Energy audits are two parts - one is the physical systems and the second are the inhabitants of the structure. Audits are not only about recommending physical or equipment upgrades but to re-direct human traffic and behavior. Take a 2 story house with 2 zones (heat or ac) you leave the door between the two zones open and you no longer have 2 zones but one with 2 sensors and controls because you have one space and air currents going up and down (incense will often show this in a stairway) .

    So Some clown of a realtor thinks building inspections should include energy audits - are they speaking off the cuff and have no clue what they really are talking about ? Maybe politics is where they belong.

    OK - this just pissed me off and I admit it , Maybe we need a rating system for realtors


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    News flash. In most areas most houses are not very energy efficient, and homeowners don't want to spend money to make them energy efficient.


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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    It's a dead program in most areas of the country. It did not develop across the country like it was projected.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    It's a dead program in most areas of the country. It did not develop across the country like it was projected.
    That's definitely my experience and observation. Not once in 17 years as a HI and over 30 in real estate related biz has a client asked me about doing an energy audit.

    However, some people will pay a little more for a home that has a good energy star rating.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    InterNACHI provides the free software which interfaces with the U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory to generate the full-color report.

    You are right about very few consumers demanding this, yet we are generating many tens of thousands of these reports every year and the program continues to grow, because InterNACHI members use this "While I'm Here" up-sell tool on their home inspections: http://www.inspectoroutlet.com/home-...e-im-here.aspx

    It works.

    Lisa Endza
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    Scott Patterson writes

    The U.S. Department of Energy made InterNACHI their national partner today.

    ASHI was dropped and all mention of ASHI was deleted from the U.S. Department of Energy website.

    Add Home Energy Scores to Your Inspections (online & free for U.S. members) - InterNACHI

    - - - Updated - - -

    Scott Patterson writes

    The U.S. Department of Energy made InterNACHI their national partner today.

    ASHI was dropped and all mention of ASHI was deleted from the U.S. Department of Energy website.

    Add Home Energy Scores to Your Inspections (online & free for U.S. members) - InterNACHI
    Lisa, ASHI is still listed along with a few others…
    Home Energy Score: Information for Interested Assessors | Department of Energy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    InterNACHI provides the free software which interfaces with the U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory to generate the full-color report.

    You are right about very few consumers demanding this, yet we are generating many tens of thousands of these reports every year and the program continues to grow, because InterNACHI members use this "While I'm Here" up-sell tool on their home inspections: Home Energy Inspection Brochure "While I'm here..."

    It works.
    According to the Dept of Energy they have only done 22,001 as of today….? Tens of Thousands might be a little bit of an over exaggeration…...

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Every home in the U.S. is going to be scored. The scores are going to become a field in the MLS. The federal government is then going to provide lower interest mortgages to buyers who are buying a home that scored well. This will cause all sellers to take the actions recommended in InterNACHI's reports to increase their score. Which in turn will drastically reduce America's use of energy.

    It's all happening now. You might as well get on board with the program. Scott, do you need me to send you an InterNACHI membership application?

    Lisa Endza
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    InterNACHI

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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    Every home in the U.S. is going to be scored. The scores are going to become a field in the MLS. The federal government is then going to provide lower interest mortgages to buyers who are buying a home that scored well. This will cause all sellers to take the actions recommended in InterNACHI's reports to increase their score. Which in turn will drastically reduce America's use of energy.

    It's all happening now. You might as well get on board with the program. Scott, do you need me to send you an InterNACHI membership application?
    Lisa, the money for the program is drying up if it is not already gone. Folks are not going to just go out and pay for an energy score… A few towns have or do require a quasi energy rating on homes that are sold, Austin TX comes to mind and it is backfiring. Folks are getting the audits done, buyers are wanting homes corrected and sellers are saying No!

    Everybody loves the sound of it but when it comes down to paying for the audits/scoring and then the corrections, it is a different story.

    And No, I don't need an application to INACH, I'm happy with ASHI.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,246

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    And No, I don't need an application to INACH
    That application is possibly worth the paper it is written on.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    The application may be, but InterNACHI membership is worth abut $75,000.00/year conservatively. Scroll down through Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI

    If you don't recognize the value proposition that InterNACHI provides to your inspection business, you probably wouldn't recognize a damp basement if you were standing in 2 feet of water. In other words, non-members really shouldn't be offering inspection services to consumers.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,246

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    If you don't recognize the value proposition that InterNACHI provides to your inspection business, you probably wouldn't recognize a damp basement if you were standing in 2 feet of water. In other words, non-members really shouldn't be offering inspection services to consumers.
    Lisa has obviously not been around a long time ... maybe been standing in that 2 feet of water trying to find the cause of the mold in that basement ...

    added with edit:
    Reminds of Brother Dave Gardner on his Ain't that Weird album from way back when (I still have some of his albums from way back when) ... Brother Dave said Khrushchev was out there walkin around that Iowa farm ... steppin in what he was tryin to sell us ...

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 07-02-2015 at 08:58 PM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    The application may be, but InterNACHI membership is worth abut $75,000.00/year conservatively. Scroll down through Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI

    If you don't recognize the value proposition that InterNACHI provides to your inspection business, you probably wouldn't recognize a damp basement if you were standing in 2 feet of water. In other words, non-members really shouldn't be offering inspection services to consumers.
    Lisa, Bless your heart! You are just like a little annoying Chihuahua, always yipping and yipping….

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    The application may be, but InterNACHI membership is worth abut $75,000.00/year conservatively. Scroll down through Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI

    If you don't recognize the value proposition that InterNACHI provides to your inspection business, you probably wouldn't recognize a damp basement if you were standing in 2 feet of water. In other words, non-members really shouldn't be offering inspection services to consumers.
    I could give a rat's patoot about the silly squabbles of ASHI and Nachi. I don't have a body at that funeral parlor. It's obvious to me though that Nachi gives a hell of a lot more to both member and non-members than ASHI does. ASHI seems like a staid, stolid, and hide-bound organization while Nachi is constantly striving to add value to a membership in their organization.

    I still belong to both organizations b/c I get a few inspections from the ASHI website each year but I am considering ending my ASHI affiliation.

    Again, I'm not trying to sway anyone or say who's right and who's wrong. I pay real close attention to this stuff and if ASHI doesn't do something drastic they'll go the way of the dinosaur before too long. Lisa, do you have the demographic info on membership for each organization? Just curious.

    Dan Cullen

    Dan Cullen
    www.domicileconsulting.com
    Chicago IL

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cullen View Post
    I could give a rat's patoot about the silly squabbles of ASHI and Nachi. I don't have a body at that funeral parlor. It's obvious to me though that Nachi gives a hell of a lot more to both member and non-members than ASHI does. ASHI seems like a staid, stolid, and hide-bound organization while Nachi is constantly striving to add value to a membership in their organization.

    I still belong to both organizations b/c I get a few inspections from the ASHI website each year but I am considering ending my ASHI affiliation.

    Again, I'm not trying to sway anyone or say who's right and who's wrong. I pay real close attention to this stuff and if ASHI doesn't do something drastic they'll go the way of the dinosaur before too long. Lisa, do you have the demographic info on membership for each organization? Just curious.

    Dan Cullen
    Dan, what would you like to see with ASHI? Many, many things have changed over the past three years at ASHI.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  42. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No energy auditors are very specialized and takes a lot of training and need their own accreditation. In essence you would have part time HI and part time auditor. You would have to take 2sets of continuing ed, licenses, insurance, etc.

    HI's have an interest in all the things that make a house. It is this interest that makes them learn. If you broaden that the HI may not be interested in glazing,heat transfer etc and would not master those areas.

    It is just a bad fit.


  43. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Too late. Borrowers with Home Energy Scores of 6 or higher now qualify for higher FHA loan amounts. The scores are done using software developed by InterNACHI in partnership with the U.S. DOE, and available exclusively for InterNACHI members. InterNACHI is the sole approved provider.

    Become a Home Energy Score Assessor (U.S. only) - InterNACHI

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    Too late. Borrowers with Home Energy Scores of 6 or higher now qualify for higher FHA loan amounts. The scores are done using software developed by InterNACHI in partnership with the U.S. DOE, and available exclusively for InterNACHI members. InterNACHI is the sole approved provider.

    Become a Home Energy Score Assessor (U.S. only) - InterNACHI


    Lisa, you are once again posting false and misleading information…. Have you even looked at the Home Energy Score website? It list many provider partners across the country in addition it show and tells how to become an assessor to offer Home Energy Scores and you do not have to belong to INACHI…..

    Home Energy Score Partners | Department of Energy

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    Scott, you have to be an InterNACHI member to use the lone software that interfaces with the U.S. DOE database, that generates the score.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  46. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: Energy Audits Included ?

    That the real estate profession doesn’t want transactions to be saddled with costly mandates such as energy audits, thermal imaging, blower door tests, energy rating systems, etc. is understandable. It’s also clear from the information provided in the original post that there is no agreed upon operational definition of the phrase “energy efficiency information.”

    The term “efficiency” is particularly troubling in light of Section 13.2, General exclusions, Part A. of the ASHI Standard which states: The inspector is NOT required to determine: 3. the strength, adequacy, effectiveness, and efficiency of systems and components.

    Consider the following with regard to evaluating energy efficiency:

    Water heating and space heating equipment:

    The requirements which the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) imposes on manufacturers not only change over time, but also they typically have future rather than immediate dates by which new requirements must be met by manufacturers.

    Thermal insulation requirements for crawl spaces, walls, floors, and ceilings as well as for windows and exterior doors:

    These are driven by local building codes and model energy codes rather than by the DOE.
    Further, model energy codes rather than building codes also address air leakage/infiltration. In the 1970s and 80’s the obsession with home energy efficiency led to tight building syndrome, unintended consequences from trying to reduce energy losses in homes. Those consequences included excessive indoor moisture, mold, stale air, odors, and the deleterious accumulation of chemicals (particularly volatile organic compounds) used in the manufacture of building components such as manufactured wood products, carpeting, plastics, etc.

    Providing information pertaining to the types and approximate R-Values of ceiling, crawl space, and basement insulation (where such areas are readily accessible), the presence or absence of sealed multiple pane exterior glass units or storm windows and storm doors, the presence and condition of or absence of weather stripping for exterior doors, and the presence and condition of HRV or MHRV equipment is relatively easy. Many home inspectors already include such information in their reports.

    Inspectors also typically document damaged, loose, or missing weather stripping; damaged multiple pane exterior glass units; damaged, improperly installed, loose, or missing thermal insulation in readily accessible areas of crawl spaces, basements and ceilings as well as damage to HRV and MHRV equipment as adverse conditions and include appropriate recommendations regarding the appropriate types of individuals to address such conditions. Inspectors typically do not describe the presence of single pane glass units and levels of thermal insulation which do not meet current standards or older energy efficiency ratings as adverse conditions.

    This isn’t intended to suggest that the scope of home inspection hasn’t changed in the past and won’t continue to do so in the future. However, as an industry, home inspection has to achieve a consensus regarding such changes relative to their potential to increase the time, cost, and liability associated with such changes.

    Including general information regarding energy efficiency and the potential benefits of improving energy efficiency may be reasonable. However, describing general or specific levels of energy efficiency in a home for the purpose of determining if such levels qualify as adverse conditions is not.


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