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  1. #1

    Default Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Found this in the attic at today's inspection. Not sure when the siding was installed, but all four gables were like this: no sheathing, no house wrap. I was unable to see whether the rest of the house had wrap and sheathing.
    Is this acceptable? I've heard that, while it's not "best practice," it's not necessarily a defect, unless the manufacturer states in its installation manual that sheathing must be used.
    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    It's allowed.
    * too many potential problems in my view.
    ** put that photo in the report to show case the Quality of this build.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    I found a very similar situation in a place I inspected a few years ago in Colorado--no sheathing, no wrap, just a lot of light showing through. After a quick telfoncon with the county building department's chief inspector (who stated quite defiantly that "sheathing is not required under exterior siding"), I noted it on my report, mentioning that it was highly unusual but not in violation of current codes.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Would not fly here as we require walls to withstand a horizontal wind pressure of 20 pounds per SF, don't think vinyl without backing would make it. Also required is a water resistive barrier, and all the vinyl I've seen recommend a water barrier of some type behind it. We call out house wrap or foam with taped joints as being an acceptable water resistive barrier, but not duct tape...

    How do you handle wall bracing? I'm guessing there is some type of requirement for angle bracing at corners? The fastest and easiest way around here is to throw up OSB sheathing, takes care of the 20lb/sf and bracing requirements.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Found this in the attic at today's inspection. Not sure when the siding was installed, but all four gables were like this: no sheathing, no house wrap. I was unable to see whether the rest of the house had wrap and sheathing.
    Is this acceptable? I've heard that, while it's not "best practice," it's not necessarily a defect, unless the manufacturer states in its installation manual that sheathing must be used.
    Thoughts?
    Iv'e seen that before over at Harriet Creek near Texas Motor Speedway. What a joke. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.. First 50mph straight line wind will rip that right off.


  6. #6
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Call it what it is-an idiotic installation.

    "While the installation of the vinyl siding without sheathing or housewrap behind it may be technically legal, it is not good building practice and quite frankly, is stupid.
    Vinyl siding is a rain screen only and is not waterproof. This installation will allow moisture intrusion that will lead to rotted structural members and wet, ineffective insulation.
    Have a qualified siding contractor install sheathing and house wrap under the vinyl siding to prevent expensive problems in the future."

    Jim


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Found this in the attic at today's inspection. Not sure when the siding was installed, but all four gables were like this: no sheathing, no house wrap. I was unable to see whether the rest of the house had wrap and sheathing.
    Is this acceptable? I've heard that, while it's not "best practice," it's not necessarily a defect, unless the manufacturer states in its installation manual that sheathing must be used.
    Thoughts?
    That a gable or hip with storage in trusses, 'non-habital attic'? H to ridge >8'?? See no diagonal bracing, nor sheathing nor panels anywhere, irrespective of cladding (covering) "siding" choice which does not afford same, nor wind resistance =/>90. See truss schedule. Vinyl siding must be installed as per mfg instructions and that includes a fastener into sufficient surface through a slot within a distance finite from a panel seam; in and off itself and even when installed upon non-structural foam (foam backed) alone, offers no shear strength, bracing or stability beyond a 0.27 factor. A rain screen, paper or wrap was not required until more recently. Direct to stud not allowed. Unprotected spun insulation, if fiberglass will soak/suck up water like a sponge. The roof structure must be protected via proscribed fire resistant construction. Gable ends must still afford wind resistance and have stability.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 06-22-2013 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    2012 IRC:TABLE R703.4 WEATHER-RESISTANT SIDING ATTACHMENT AND MINIMUM THICKNESS Type of Supports for the siding material fasteners (b.c.d)Direct to studsVinyl siding (l) Not Allowedl. Vinyl siding shall comply with ASTM D 3679See also 2012 IRC: R703.1, R703.2, and ALL of R703.11. I don't "see" silouette of even (the minimum) non-structural plastic foam sheathing (& tape) either. Still wondering if that's a < (less than) 90 degree slope. Minimum H/120, I think not. Some type of backer (gyp, rigid insulation board, traditional sheathing, etc.) has always been required for plane-jane horiz. vinyl cladding/'siding' traditional construction, never direct to open studding north of the freeze line on traditional construction =/+90 winds exposure, & obviously well beyond exposure 5'+ grade plane. An "attic" gable isn't break-away flood wall, isn't pier/beam crawl or mfg' home skirting for sure.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 06-22-2013 at 03:02 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    It was a gable end, so vertical.
    So I'm hearing that in some parts of the country, this is okay, and in some places not. Does anyone know about Maryland in particular?

    Welmoed Sisson
    Inspections by Bob, LLC, Boyds, MD
    "Given sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    No manufacture will allow there sidding to be installed without house wrap. That makes it against code.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    No manufacture will allow there sidding to be installed without house wrap. That makes it against code.
    While that may be the case in and for a jurisdiction which as adopted the 2006 or later edition of the IRC, it was NOT TRUE (unammended) to the 2003 nor to the 2000 edition (UNAMMENDED) of the IRC. The IRC did NOT envoke "manufacturer's installation instructions" for same until the 2006 edition, AND expressly indicated it (building paper) was NOT REQUIRED (Table R703.4) prior to 2006 IRC (and for detached accessory buildings it remains not required under R703.2 exception ordered list item 2 unless required under mfg instructions envoked under R703.11)

    It remains to NOT BE REQUIRED as an exception, to DETACHED ACCESSORY buildings, unless expressly required for same by the manufacturer regarding same.

    However, not since the origination/inception of the IRC, has it ever been permitted to install vinyl siding (nor uninsulated aluminum (horizontal - lap) siding, for that matter) direct to stud (i.e. not allowed) under the unammended IRC, to any exterior wall of any covered structure.

    2000 & 2003 IRC Table R703.4 WEATHER-RESISTANT SIDING ATTACHMENT AND MINIMUM THICKESS


    Vinyl siding under "Sheathing Paper Required": "NO"
    Vinyl siding under "Direct to stud": "NOT ALLOWED"

    2000 - 2012 R703.2 exception still permits sheathing PAPER or equal, to be omitted for detached accessory buildings.

    2006, 2009, 2012 IRC Table R703.4:

    Vinyl siding under "Sheathing Paper Required": YES
    Vinyl siding under "Direct to stud": NOT ALLOWED.

    2006, 2009, 2012 IRC R703.11 Vinyl Siding subsection invokes mfg installation instructions.

    2000 - 2012 R703.2 exception still permits sheathing PAPER or equal, to be omitted for detached accessory buildings.





  12. #12
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    Default Re: Vinyl siding with no sheathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    No manufacture will allow there sidding to be installed without house wrap. That makes it against code.
    While that may be the case in and for a jurisdiction which as adopted the 2006 or later edition of the IRC, it was NOT TRUE (unammended) to the 2003 nor to the 2000 edition (UNAMMENDED) of the IRC. The IRC did NOT envoke "manufacturer's installation instructions" for same until the 2006 edition, AND expressly indicated it (building paper) was NOT REQUIRED (Table R703.4) prior to 2006 IRC (and for detached accessory buildings it remains not required under R703.2 exception ordered list item 2 unless required under mfg instructions envoked under R703.11)

    It remains to NOT BE REQUIRED as an exception, to DETACHED ACCESSORY buildings, unless expressly required for same by the manufacturer regarding same.

    However, not since the origination/inception of the IRC (unammended), has it ever been permitted to install vinyl siding (nor uninsulated aluminum (horizontal - lap) siding, for that matter) direct to stud (i.e. not allowed) under the Table at R703.4, unammended IRC, to any exterior wall.

    2000 & 2003 IRC Table R703.4 WEATHER-RESISTANT SIDING ATTACHMENT AND MINIMUM THICKESS


    Vinyl siding under "Sheathing Paper Required": "NO"
    Vinyl siding under "Direct to stud": "NOT ALLOWED"

    2000 - 2012 R703.2 exception still permits sheathing PAPER or equal, to be omitted for detached accessory buildings.

    2006, 2009, 2012 IRC Table R703.4:

    Vinyl siding under "Sheathing Paper Required": YES
    Vinyl siding under "Direct to stud": NOT ALLOWED.

    2006, 2009, 2012 IRC R703.11 Vinyl Siding subsection invokes mfg installation instructions.

    2000 - 2012 R703.2 exception still permits sheathing PAPER or equal, to be omitted for detached accessory buildings.





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