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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Omaha
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    143

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    Rich

    I found this. At 32 degrees and 100% RH if that air is warmed to 70 degrees the RH drops to 20%. I think increasing your ventilation rate would help with the condensation.


    http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-b...Air-Is-Dry-Air

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  2. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    552

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hronek View Post
    Rich

    I found this. At 32 degrees and 100% RH if that air is warmed to 70 degrees the RH drops to 20%. I think increasing your ventilation rate would help with the condensation.
    http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-b...Air-Is-Dry-Air
    I am constructing a frame to move the Roman shade out 4" from the glass. The frame has large vents at the top to allow air to drop down (gravity) over the window and exit at the bottom. This should provide enough air flow over the window to heat the glass enough to retard condensation.


  3. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    I am constructing a frame to move the Roman shade out 4" from the glass. The frame has large vents at the top to allow air to drop down (gravity) over the window and exit at the bottom. This should provide enough air flow over the window to heat the glass enough to retard condensation.
    I understand that you were planning on doing that. I just wonder if it is necessary. We get a lot of cold weather and I dont see that on my windows. Tonight it is going to be -8. I will probably see some condensation on the bottom of a window or 2 but it wont look anything like your picture. It has been 20+ out today and the humidifier has been set at about 35% but have turned it down for the night.

    The center of glass R value is higher than around the edges. See condensation around the edge is not that uncommon. Condensation across the full face of the window is not normal.

    You original question was the condensation normal. It is not normal for dual pane windows with the proper RH for the conditions. You solution is addressing the symptoms and not the problem. I suggest you go to the Q&A section as this site and post. They have a very knowledgeable group

    GreenBuildingAdvisor.com | Designing, Building and Remodeling Green Homes

    Last edited by Robert Hronek; 01-23-2014 at 08:26 AM.

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    Recently had a contractor tell me that condensation that was running down the window and pooling on the sill was normal for the area (FL) due to a rapid temperature change. He also said there was a lot of moisture in the home from construction. The house has been occupied for a month and the HVAC system has the dehumidify setting on for that period. The inside humidity is around 47% and the outside temp was in the 40's at the time. He also produced a brochure from PGG stating that condensation was normal. I'm from the North and know what consolidation is, but with double pane windows I feel this is excessive. This window set, bedroom, was the only windows that had the condensation in pools. The other windows had small 1" strips on the bottom of the glass---nothing to be alarmed about. What do you think?
    Dew point and materials.
    Now a sill should slope away from the building allowing water to be directed downstream.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  5. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    552

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal? ** UPDATE **

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Parlee View Post
    Rich
    Keep us posted as to the results of your "fix"
    Take a picture of the current view of the wall and another at completion of your correction and post them if you would.
    I finally finished the "frame" and installed it on the window. The day after the temperature went down to around 42-43 degrees, but we didn't have the problem as we had previously. The shade was lowered to about 1' from the sash (as was in the "wet pictures). There was about a 1" condensation band around the lower part of the window (upper sash), but nothing like before. The mullions continued to "weep" as before.

    I will be insulating the mullions with a small "U" shaped insulated channel glued and sealed (not drilled) on the outside and that should stop the weeping.

    The pictures show the installation and the ducts at the top to allow the air to drop over the windows.

    The "before" picture shows paint sticks holding the shade out to dry.

    Everyone, Thanks for all your suggestions.

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  6. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal? ** UPDATE **

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    I finally finished the "frame" and installed it on the window. The day after the temperature went down to around 42-43 degrees, but we didn't have the problem as we had previously. The shade was lowered to about 1' from the sash (as was in the "wet pictures). There was about a 1" condensation band around the lower part of the window (upper sash), but nothing like before. The mullions continued to "weep" as before.

    I will be insulating the mullions with a small "U" shaped insulated channel glued and sealed (not drilled) on the outside and that should stop the weeping.

    The pictures show the installation and the ducts at the top to allow the air to drop over the windows.

    The "before" picture shows paint sticks holding the shade out to dry.

    Everyone, Thanks for all your suggestions.
    The curtains or drapery maybe causing the issue.
    It is not recommended to install a closed of curtain or drapery in the frame.
    It will rot the frames out in the walls over time.


    Take the relative humidity level in the room and the temperate 2 times.
    1: during the hottest part of the day 2: coolest part of the day.
    Post it when you can.

    Warm air can carry much more moisture than cold air can. That is why, when the temperature drops overnight, dew settles on the grass.

    Read more: Why Do House Windows Fog Up? | eHow


    The window pain glazing, will attract any RH. Dew point. It look like your drapes are not allowing air circulation to move off the excess moisture.
    They are ceiling the frame.

    Any draperies should be off the wall 3" to 4" and 12 inches up from the floor
    You could also put a small baseboard heater under the space.

    Best regards.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-17-2014 at 03:24 PM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    A gas filled window that has leaked out will usually show water between the panes indicating a breach in the seal, just a thought for the future.

    Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.

  8. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    so so, California
    Posts
    1,769

    Default Re: Condensation - Is it Normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandi rahmat View Post
    Yupz. Nowadays, the climate cannot be predicted...


    yea,...global warming

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