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  1. #1
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    Default Threshold height.

    Egress opening, leading to a concrete covered wood framed exterior balcony.
    Sliding door/window, threshold height. Material in use.
    NBC would be prefered.



    Thanks in advance.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Egress opening, leading to a concrete covered wood framed exterior balcony.
    First, to be an "egress" opening, the door would need to be side-hinged, sliding doors are not "egress" openings.

    Secondly, a door going to a balcony is not an "egress" opening

    CEC would be prefered.
    CEC? Isn't that Canadian Electrical Code?

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    CEC? Isn't that Canadian Electrical Code?
    I know Robert is in Canada, but it might be California Electric Code. (or Colorado, or Connecticut, or Calcutta...)

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Obvious Flashing defect.

    Wayne Soper answered my poor worded/phrased question.
    3. The height of floors at exterior doors other than the exit door required by Section R311.4.1 shall not be more than 73/4 inches (186 mm) lower than the top of the threshold.
    The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.
    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...ench-door.html

    NAHB has a good article.
    Section R703.4 of the 2015 IRC requires flashing to be in accordance with the following:

    Revised Section 9.27 for the 2005 NBC

    Revised Section 9.27 for the 2005 NBC
    3) Where masonry serves as cladding on wood-frame or masonry walls exposed to precipitation, the cladding assembly shall comply with a) Subsections 9.27.2. to 9.27.4., and Section 9.20., or b) Part 5.

    9.27.3.7. Flashing Materials
    1) Flashing shall consist of not less than
    a) 1.73 mm thick sheet lead,
    b) 0.33 mm thick galvanized steel,
    c) 0.46 mm thick copper,
    d) 0.46 mm thick zinc,
    e) 0.48 mm thick aluminum, or
    f) 1.02 mm thick vinyl.
    9.27.3.8. Flashing Installation
    1) Except as provided in Sentence (2), flashing shall be installed at
    a) every horizontal junction between claddings elements,
    b) every horizontal off-set in the cladding, and
    c) every horizontal line where the cladding substrates change and
    i) differ sufficiently for stresses to be concentrated along that line, or
    ii) where the installation of the cladding on the lower substrate may compromise
    the drainage of moisture from behind the cladding above.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    1008.1.7 Thresholds of the 2009 IBC. The question is does the exception to section 1008.1.7 allow an exterior sliding glass door to have a threshold height of 7 3/4 inches, meaning the "floor" on both sides of the door being 7 3/4 inches below top of threshold.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    First off Robert (with due respect), exactly what code are you looking for? If this is a Quebec property, would the relevant code of Quebec, or at least the NBC (National Building Code of Canada) apply.

    I find it a bit of misinformation to not clearly state what your are looking for. You cannot just pick or choose another code that is not enforced in the applicable jurisdiction.

    Typically in Canada, the maximum riser height is 7 7/8" inches. Again in condo or apartments it is not uncommon to see a sill height constructed to that requirement. Based on the photo you provided there is not a lot of protection between the current door sill, and the top of the balcony floor level. Let alone the missing and poorly sealed base at this door/balcony floor detail.

    Again with due respect, it is also good to see others offer their comments, but again, bottom line - what code or building standard applies is critically important to seek the correct answer.


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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    To add to Claude's comments - and this applies to all questions by everyone - we also need to know if it is:

    - single family detached

    - single family attached (townhouses with a property line between each)

    - single family attached (townhouses without a property line between each) ... which are really multi-family in the most technical sense

    - conds/apartments

    - two-family

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Single family attached.
    2.5 story.
    Finished basement.
    2012 build.

    Curious, as to post #1, edited version, your thoughts on; Sliding door/window, threshold height.
    An AHJ told me sliding glass doors have been amended into Quebec building code as long as width height and ability to travel through/over are not compromised.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 08-19-2017 at 05:00 PM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Single family attached.
    2.5 story.
    Finished basement.
    2012 build.

    Curious, as to post #1, edited version, your thoughts on; Sliding door/window, threshold height.
    An AHJ told me sliding glass doors have been amended into Quebec building code as long as width height and ability to travel through/over are not compromised.
    Provide a link to the applicable code - I did a Google search and found a cod which makes no sense in its layout, and does not appear to be applicable to single family - unless I keep scrolling through and missing the section numbers which refers to single family ... is there a separate 'residential code'?

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Provide a link to the applicable code - I did a Google search and found a code which makes no sense in its layout, and does not appear to be applicable to single family - unless I keep scrolling through and missing the section numbers which refers to single family ... is there a separate 'residential code'?
    Evening Jerry.
    Post #1 question, minimum threshold height.
    The link might have been an error.

    The sliding door/s to all bedrooms lead onto a balcony sloped away from the envelope 1°.
    There are set of stairs that lead to a walkway to return to the of the home.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 08-19-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Evening Jerry.
    Post #1, edited, has no link I am aware of.
    Robert,

    That's why I am asking for a link.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    R311.3.1 Floor elevations at the required egress doors.
    Landings or finished floors at the required egress door shall not be more than 11/2 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold.

    R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors.
    Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold.

    For myself, the NBC is far from IRC or NBC when it comes looking up code.

    Clude, with all due respect, my question is, threshold height.
    Post the NBC standard to see if they have relevance. When it comes to NBC provincial amended building amended articles, I think they do a sorry job of communicating to North America's most used language.
    Best.


    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 08-19-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Egress opening, leading to a concrete covered wood framed exterior balcony.
    Sliding door/window, threshold height. Material in use..........
    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Obvious Flashing defect..........
    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Evening Jerry.
    Post #1 question, minimum threshold height......................
    Robert, Is it a question about threshold height or flashing? Then if you want code references for Canada, why not ask for the specific Canadian code source that you want. Most of the board is U.S.A. based. (((just to not confuse those that may stop into view forum)))...

    Please explain how the picture you posted, without a means of reference like a tape measure, is a relative point to question. And in real life what it has to do with reality???


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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Robert, Is it a question about threshold height or flashing?
    Mr. Sorrell's, it appears you can write to read.
    Posts reads as follows.
    Subject: Egress opening, leading to a concrete covered wood framed exterior balcony
    Sliding door/window, threshold height. Material in use.
    NBC would be prefered.
    PS:
    Please excuse the lack of punctuation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Then if you want code references for Canada, why not ask for the specific Canadian code source that you want. Most of the board is U.S.A. based. (((just to not confuse those that may stop into view forum)))...
    I asked for Canadian NBC reference.
    Actually I see many codified references, UBC, IBC, NPC but let's move on.
    As well, most Canadian members site IRC if you look back through the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Please explain how the picture you posted, without a means of reference like a tape measure, is a relative point to question. And in real life what it has to do with reality???
    Why would one require a tape measure to recite code?
    The image was posted as a visual aid.
    Sliding door sill. Below, threshold and floor surface.

    Hope that helps.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Please explain how the picture you posted, without a means of reference like a tape measure, is a relative point to question. And in real life what it has to do with reality???
    If you look to the extreme center left in the picture/image, you see a gloved hand laid flat on the ceramic tiled balcony, as a means of reference.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    I Google; code for egress threshold.

    08-06-2012, 12:06 AM
    Howdy, Installing sliders for egress which will be at grade. Will be pouring concrete for a patio. It looks like the maximum step down from threshold is 7 3/4". What would the minimum be? I am wondering what the code is and I obviously do not want rain water entering the dwelling. Thanks In advance.

    No, the MAXIMUM is 1-1/2".
    UNLESS the door does not swing out over the landing (a sliding glass door does not swing, so this part is no problem), in which case the MAXIMUM is 7-3/4".


    Now, with all due respect, it appears there are member biases at Inspectionews.
    In the future I will post, write to read, more clearly.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Reminds me of if the glove fits statement....


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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    I concur. And my closing argument, "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit".

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Here is a link to International Code Requirements for Windows & Doors.

    I find this paragraph particularly interesting.
    Manufacturers and dealers that sell products in several states should be aware that at this point, multiple editions of the International Codes are being enforced by various U.S. jurisdictions. Most jurisdictions are currently using the 2009 editions of the three codes. As of fall 2011, the 2009 IBC is being enforced in 24 states, the 2009 IRC is being enforced in 20 states and the 2009 IECC is being enforced in 22 states. Each of these is also being enforced by local jurisdictions in other states as well. There are, however, also several states and local jurisdictions that are still using the 2003 or 2006 editions of the three codes. Some states are even still enforcing the first edition of the International Building Code–the 2000 edition.

    Thank you for all your replies.

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    Reminds me of if the glove fits statement....
    Let's move on from the glove thing, shall we?

    Claude, seeing you are one of the few canadian colleges that frequents Inpsectionnews, could you please indicate to me, a National Building Code Of Canada Section in reference to Section R311.3 of the IRC that restricts threshold height for an exit door in residences to 1 1/2" or 3/4". depending upon the type of door, from the top of the threshold to the floor or landing on each side of the door?
    Awaiting your reply.
    Robert

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    It is still a tripping hazard no matter what the code is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    First, to be an "egress" opening, the door would need to be side-hinged, sliding doors are not "egress" openings.

    Secondly, a door going to a balcony is not an "egress" opening
    Where did you get that from? Just asking?


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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Roy, not to answer for Jerry, but I did a component inspection, fire prevention related, although I looked at the overall request as a reinspection.
    I cannot go into specifics/details, but will say I jumped at the opportunity. This was 2012.
    The reinspection was being coordinated, I believe, by someone then considered to be one of Montreal's leading authorities on NBC code and building compliance. I will end there.

    I was offered the original report. I refused. I prefer a null hypothesis or clean slate approach. As well, SoP vary by degree.

    From my understanding, code used mirrored IRC. The only codes I read were all International Building Code / ICC related. Roy Cooke sent me his copy of The Ontario Building Code.
    Trying to purchase a NBC hard or soft cover copy at that time was frustrating to order, took up to 3 months to be delivered, and the expense, $850+, to a new home inspection business startup was a hard close to make. I still use Roy's/my OBC.

    Sliding exit door to an egress was #1 on the 7 point list they had.

    First question, by the individual in charge, "there is no hinge. The door does not swing." In your view Robert, is this correct?
    I replied, I will get back to them later, but as far as I was concerned, it covered all the necessary prerequisites. Height, width and ability of travel through.

    I was again questioned about width. I had forgot the requirements. I replied, depending upon code, to which I did not have at the time, and/or if an AHJ made amendments to that specific building/s.

    So, the question you asked Jerry, is fair. BUT, I have been asked that vary question several years back. A leading Montreal authority said the same thing. Egress doors require hinges.

    Looking forward, as always, to Jerry's reply.

    All the best Roy!

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    First, to be an "egress" opening, the door would need to be side-hinged, sliding doors are not "egress" openings.

    Secondly, a door going to a balcony is not an "egress" opening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Lewis View Post
    Where did you get that from? Just asking?
    First item: (underlining is mine)
    - R311.2 Egress door. - - At least one egress door shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The egress door shall be side-hinged, and shall provide a minimum clear width of 32 inches (813 mm) when measured between the face of the door and the stop, with the door open 90 degrees (1.57 rad). The minimum clear height of the door opening shall not be less than 78 inches (1981 mm) in height measured from the top of the threshold to the bottom of the stop. Other doors shall not be required to comply with these minimum dimensions. Egress doors shall be readily openable from inside the dwelling without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.
    - - - Exception: Buildings that are 400 square feet (37 m2) or less and that are intended for use in conjunction with one- and two-family residences are not subject to the door height and width requirements of this code.
    - - - (Jerry's note: "other doors" ... means 'other than egress doors'; and those "other doors" are exempt only from "dimensions" requirements, not the "shall be side-hinged" requirement, i.e., bedroom doors and the like.)

    Second item: (underlining is mine)
    - R311.1 Means of egress.
    - - All dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.
    - - - (Jerry's note: "at the required egress door", meaning 'to one of the' "At least one" egress doors.)
    - R311.4 Vertical egress. - - Egress from habitable levels including habitable attics and basements not provided with an egress door in accordance with Section R311.2 shall be by a ramp in accordance with Section R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.7.
    - - - (Jerry's note: "not provided with an egress door", the interior door, side-hinged, exempt from the required dimensions, which leads to the required egress door ... or to one of the "At least one" egress doors ... serves as the egress from that room. If there was no door serving as the egress from that room, then a stair or a ramp would be required to allow occupants to egress to the required egress door.) - - - (Jerry's note: "other doors" ... means 'other than egress doors'; and those "other doors" are exempt only from "dimensions" requirements, not the "shall be side-hinged" requirement, i.e., bedroom doors and the like.)

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    In bold mine, and with all due respect, and consideration of your underlied, one could/would consider a/the front door, if hinged, as, R311.2 Egress door. - - At least one egress door shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The egress door shall be side-hinged...
    If so, is this a logical consideration?

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    In bold mine, and with all due respect, and consideration of your underlied, one could/would consider a/the front door, if hinged, as, R311.2 Egress door. - - At least one egress door shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The egress door shall be side-hinged...
    If so, is this a logical consideration?
    There shall be "at least one" "egress door".

    However, if you provided two or more doors to serve as "egress doors", then those shall also meet those requirements in order to be "egress doors" ... "other doors" ... other than "egress doors" (egress doors are doors which go from the building interior to the outdoors and lead to the public way) ... "other doors" which serve in the egress path within the dwelling unit are not required to meet those "dimensions".

    Does not say they are allowed to 'not meet' the side-hinged requirement.

    The best way to understand egress requirements is to become familiar with the various egress terms in the building code, which (because they do not address 'within dwelling units') are much more well defined and have more requirements. Get 'within a dwelling unit' and ... as the old saying goes ... a man's house is his castle ... and the requirements are much less restrictive - but there are still those requirements which are stated in that code section (to be "egress doors" ... which go to the outdoors ... interior doors which are part of the egress path are those "other doors".

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    Default Re: Threshold height.

    Thank you for the clarity.
    Always appreciated, from those who appreciate clarity, from my end.

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