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  1. #1
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    Default Fire rated doors

    How do I tell if the door between the house and attatched garage is a fire rated door? Are they suppoed to be labled as such?

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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    How do I tell if the door between the house and attatched garage is a fire rated door? Are they suppoed to be labled as such?
    There is no requirement for them to be fire rated. That is ONE option.
    If a door is fire rated, it will have a label attesting to the fact on the edge of the door, even though the manufacturer says to paint all 6 sides of every door.

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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    And while the door should be painted on all 6 sides - the label shall not be painted.

    And the rating is not of the "door", the rating is of the door, jambs, hardware, and threshold.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    "suppoed"? sic. How embarrassing.
    Ok, from your responses I gather that I best bone up on this topic. Apparently I have forgotten some of what I was supposed to have learned. Thankyou guys!


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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    There is no requirement for them to be fire rated
    They are around here...

    R309.1 Opening Penetration
    Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and the residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8? (35 mm) in thickness, solid- or honeycomb-core steel doors not less than 1-3/8? (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.



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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    There is no requirement for them to be fire rated. That is ONE option.
    If a door is fire rated, it will have a label attesting to the fact on the edge of the door, even though the manufacturer says to paint all 6 sides of every door.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Lewis View Post
    They are around here...

    R309.1 Opening Penetration
    Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and the residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8? (35 mm) in thickness, solid- or honeycomb-core steel doors not less than 1-3/8? (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.
    Roy,

    I think if you re-read that, you will see that Jim is correct.

    From that code section (bold and underlining are mine): "Other openings between the garage and the residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8" (35 mm) in thickness, solid- or honeycomb-core steel doors not less than 1-3/8" (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors." (I replaced " ? " with " " ", 'inch symbol).

    There is an OPTION for a rated door in that code section, it is one of THREE OPTIONS.

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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Roy,

    solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8" (35 mm) in thickness
    Then if the above is used it would be rated for fire..
    Anything other that the 3 options would not..Correct?


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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Lewis View Post
    Then if the above is used it would be rated for fire..
    - - - Added this clarification with edit - - -

    I originally said: "It would have a fire rating, yes, but a fire rating is not required."

    - - - The clarification is this: I was referring to the 20 minuted rated door, not just a "solid wood door" - - -
    - - - A "solid wood door" has NO fire rating by virtue of it being a "solid wood door", regardless of the door's thickness, without being tested to the appropriate standard, and if that door assembly passed the test, it would be labeled as a rated door to the test it passed. - - -

    Anything other that the 3 options would not..Correct?
    Only the 20 minute rated door would have a fire rating ... the other two allowed options have no fire rating.

    Correct - only those three options are allowed.

    Now a couple of things to think about:

    a) Is a 'solid core' (particle board) a "solid wood" door?

    b) Is a 1-3/4" raised panel door a minimum 1-3/8" thick door?

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-15-2019 at 04:08 PM. Reason: for clarification
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Now a couple of things to think about:

    a) Is a 'solid core' (particle board) a "solid wood" door?

    b) Is a 1-3/4" raised panel door a minimum 1-3/8" thick door?
    Anyone have thoughts on those?

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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Now a couple of things to think about:

    a) Is a 'solid core' (particle board) a "solid wood" door?

    b) Is a 1-3/4" raised panel door a minimum 1-3/8" thick door?
    a) Yes. Particleboard is primarily wood with an adhesive binder. A solid wood door would also consist of wood with an adhesive binder (since there really aren't enough 36+" diameter trees from which you could make a solid wood door out of a single-piece of wood). Around here, the AHJ accepts 1-3/8" particleboard door as "solid wood".

    b) No. The code does not say "average of 1-3/8"".

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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    (bold and underlining are mine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    a) Yes. Particleboard is primarily wood with an adhesive binder. A solid wood door would also consist of wood with an adhesive binder (since there really aren't enough 36+" diameter trees from which you could make a solid wood door out of a single-piece of wood). Around here, the AHJ accepts 1-3/8" particleboard door as "solid wood".
    First bold and underlined part: "primarily" wood, yes, but is not "solid wood".

    Second bold and underlined part: would not need any adhesive with 1-3/8" thick wood slats, T&G together, which is the way very old doors were made.

    Third bold and underlined part: as do all AHJ that I know of, and as I would also accept ... even though it is not equivalent to "solid wood" as "solid wood" has strength from its fibers, and particle board, as we all know, lacks strength (but it would have a similar density, but ... is the adhesive similarly fire resistant (flame spread and smoke developed) as a "solid wood" door would be? Why would I accept it? Because I think it would be extremely difficult to not accept it due to the virtual universal acceptance of them, and lack of evidence to state that they are the case of damage or spread of fire beyond which a "solid wood" door would allow.

    b) No. The code does not say "average of 1-3/8"".
    Correct, and even the 1-3/4" door I mentioned (instead of the minimum 1-3/8" thickness) does not meet that minimum - the 1-3/8" raised panel doors I have seen typically measure 1/2" or less thick at the recesses, thus a 1-3/4" thick door would only be around 7/8" thick there (given the presumption that the recesses are the same depth, making the recesses thicker).

    Then there are those fiberglass and other skinned doors (other than metal) which contractors put in 'for style' - not allowed either.

    I have had contractors replace those doors with minimum 1-3/8" solid core doors and apply raised panels to those doors, the look is great, and the doors are not compromised.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I have had contractors replace those doors with minimum 1-3/8" solid core doors and apply raised panels to those doors, the look is great, and the doors are not compromised.
    Or, they temporarily replace the decorative door with the 1-3/8 solid until the final is signed-off and then put the one they wanted back in.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Or, they temporarily replace the decorative door with the 1-3/8 solid until the final is signed-off and then put the one they wanted back in.
    In which case there is a record of the wrong door, followed by a record of an acceptable correction ... after which there is nothing which can be done by the AHJ ... then it is up to you guys, home inspectors, to catch that switcheroo.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Fare rated, or Fire suppression?

    Openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with; A: solid wood door/s, not less than 1-3/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, B: solid and/or honeycomb-core steel doors, not less than 1-3/8 inches (35 mm) thick, C: 20-minute fire-rated doors, as well as, D: products bearing the Warnock Hersey (WH-ETL) Mark and Intertek, indicate compliance to relevant building codes, association criteria, and product safety and performance standards. Nearly 80% of North America's wood fire-rated doors bear the WH Mark, combined with a self closing device.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Some municipalities have a safety inspection requirement for transfers of residential properties. Such as mine was in PA. Included in the inspection was the requirement of a fire rated door between the garage and living space. Since many inspectors have told me that they don't inspect to building code requirements, it's still a good idea to include the door's fire rating status.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Quote Originally Posted by David Crawford View Post
    Some municipalities have a safety inspection requirement for transfers of residential properties. Such as mine was in PA. Included in the inspection was the requirement of a fire rated door between the garage and living space. Since many inspectors have told me that they don't inspect to building code requirements, it's still a good idea to include the door's fire rating status.
    Morning, David and members. Hope to find you all well and in good spirits today.
    I concur. Whenever possible, I note applicable code in a way that limits my PIA liability.

    As for fire rating entry points.
    I note products bearing the Warnock Hersey (WH-ETL) Mark and Intertek, images or doors and frames and include WH numbers in reports and images.
    WH image.JPG

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fire rated doors

    Robert,

    Not sure why you are trying to create a "D" - your "D" is nothing more than one of type of "C" in the code.

    David,

    Local requirements is why we refer to the ICC codes, in this case the IRC.

    Some states have statewide codes which are adopted for enforcement statewide (for theoretical statewide consistency of enforcement) Florida is one of those.

    Some states have statewide codes which are adopted for use statewide ... If a city or county chooses to adopt a code - I think NC is somewhat like that.

    Some states have statewide codes which are adopted for use statewide ... in areas which do not specifically adopt a code - I think Texas is like that.

    Some states don't have statewide adopted codes.

    Now, we get into cities and counties ... and each may have their own code that they adopt ... or no code ... or make their own code requirements.

    Which is why many discussions end up including a statement similar to "home inspectors need to know what their local code is".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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