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  1. #1
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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  2. #2
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    Kevin Luce Guest

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Here's the picture.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    Here's the picture.
    Kevin, it is common to find weeps under windows in masonry walls.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  4. #4
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    why?


  5. #5
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    Talking Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Because a window is basically just another hole in the wall where water seepage occurs quite often.

    rick


  6. #6
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    why?
    The are to help with any water/moisture that might seep in through the masonry around the windows. Then further down the wall as the brick joins the foundation you should see additional weeps.

    Some AHJ's require weeps at just about every window and door opening in a home and some could care less about them.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Shouldn't the flashing be visible beneath those weeps?


  8. #8

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Kevin,
    Check out: BIA.org The tech notes have great diagrams or weep and flashing placement, etc.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    Shouldn't the flashing be visible beneath those weeps?
    Nah, because it was probably never installed!

    Sometimes you can see it and sometimes the mortar over it.

    Weep holes are home inspection 101 basics. I would have thought that this was being taught in every HI school around the country. Y'all need to know about this stuff or it's going to get ya in trouble sooner or later.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Referencing the 2003 IRC R703.7.6 then R703.7.5 then the location where flashing needs to be installed R703.8, there is no mention of flashing or weepholes under the window. Around here, I'm happy to see weep holes at all.

    I'll check out the BIA.org. It will be interesting to read because at this time, I think their purpose of being there is pretty weak. But I like to think I have an open mind.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    Referencing the 2003 IRC R703.7.6 then R703.7.5 then the location where flashing needs to be installed R703.8, there is no mention of flashing or weepholes under the window. Around here, I'm happy to see weep holes at all.

    I'll check out the BIA.org. It will be interesting to read because at this time, I think their purpose of being there is pretty weak. But I like to think I have an open mind.

    I think that it is coverd under the flashing section.
    R703.7.6 Weepholes. Weepholes shall be provided in the
    outside wythe of masonry walls at a maximum spacing of
    33 inches (838 mm) on center.Weepholes shall not be less
    than 3/16 inch (4.8mm) in diameter.Weepholes shall be lo-
    cated immediately above the flashing.


    R703.8 Flashing.Approved corrosion-resistive flashing shall
    be provided in the exterior wall envelope in such a manner as
    to prevent entry of water into the wall cavity or penetration of
    water to the building structural framing components. The
    flashing shall extend to the surface of the exterior wall finish
    and shall be installed to prevent water from reentering the ex-
    terior wall envelope. Approved corrosion-resistant flashings
    shall be installed at all of the following locations:

    1. At top of all exterior window and door openings in such
    a manner as to be leakproof, except that self-flashing
    windows having a continuous lap of not less than11/8
    inches (28 mm) over the sheathing material around the
    perimeter of the opening, including corners, do not re-
    quire additional flashing; jamb flashing may also be
    omitted when specifically approved by the building of-
    ficial.
    2. At the intersection of chimneys or other masonry
    constructionwith frameor stuccowalls,with projecting
    lips on both sides under stucco copings.
    3. Under and at the ends of masonry, wood or metal cop-
    ings and sills.

    4. Continuously above all projecting wood trim.
    5. Where exterior porches, decks or stairs attach to a wall
    or floor assembly of wood-frame construction.
    6. At wall and roof intersections.
    7. At built-in gutters.
    As I said it all depends on the AHJ and what they want.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  12. #12
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    I finally noticed that.


  13. #13
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    Kevin Luce Guest

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    It's nice to see weep holes/wick but do you think they could have installed them in the right place?
    Here's the picture.
    Let me rephrase.

    Look I finally inspected a house that installed the weeps/wicks by the book.

    Last edited by Kevin Luce; 03-27-2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason: I was expecting the picture to be included in the quote

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    Let me rephrase.

    Look I finally inspected a house that installed the weeps/wicks by the book.
    Much betterer!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    I don't know what the deal is in my area, but weep holes are like .99cent gas... non-existent.

    It must be an "east Texan" thang.

    When I was building my home, I came in one day AFTER the brick mason was finished. I asked him where the weep holes were and he looked at me like I was a UFO. He said, "we don't do that anymore".

    I fell out

    and then got my drill and a masonry bit and proceeded to make my own (small as they are).

    Bruce
    We don't do that anymore, TX

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  16. #16
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    and then got my drill and a masonry bit and proceeded to make my own (small as they are).
    You are kidding, right. Without the flashing they are useless. If you drill any hole a little too deep you could damage the weather resistant barrier, which would provide an easy path for water to enter the wall assembly.


  17. #17

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Scott,

    Technical Notes

    Under flashing and weeps (tech note 7b) they clearly indicate that the flashing should extend beyond the surface of the brick/ mortar the way I read it.

    As far as weeps at windows.. good practice-- yes. Required... not according to the 2003 IRC if you believe in self flashing windows, and I can't tell you the last time I saw weeps at windows.


  18. #18
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Weep holes are home inspection 101 basics. I would have thought that this was being taught in every HI school around the country.
    I think you give these schools too much credit. When I moved up to Indiana and took the ITA class in Illinois so I can get state licensed in Illinois, I was very disappointed on what was taught, and how fast it was taught.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    As far as weeps at windows.. good practice-- yes. Required... not according to the 2003 IRC if you believe in self flashing windows, and I can't tell you the last time I saw weeps at windows.

    Brandon,

    First, re-read that code. That is not what it says. Then, look at the drawing on the next page.

    From the 2003 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - R703.8 Flashing.
    Approved corrosion-resistive flashing shall be provided in the exterior wall envelope in such a manner as to prevent entry of water into the wall cavity or penetration of water to the building structural framing components. The flashing shall extend to the surface of the exterior wall finish and shall be installed to prevent water from reentering the exterior wall envelope. Approved corrosion-resistant flashings shall be installed at all of the following locations:
    - - 1. At top of all exterior window and door openings in such a manner as to be leakproof, except that self-flashing inches (28 mm) over the sheathing material around the perimeter of the opening, including corners, do not require additional flashing; jamb flashing may also be omitted when specifically approved by the building official.
    - - 2. At the intersection of chimneys or other masonry construction with frame or stucco walls, with projecting lips on both sides under stucco copings.
    - - 3. Under and at the ends of masonry, wood or metal copings and sills.
    - - 4. Continuously above all projecting wood trim.
    - - 5. Where exterior porches, decks or stairs attach to a wall or floor assembly of wood-frame construction.
    - - 6. At wall and roof intersections.
    - - 7. At built-in gutters.

    That self-flashing exception ONLY applies to the TOP flashing.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Chew View Post
    You are kidding, right. Without the flashing they are useless. If you drill any hole a little too deep you could damage the weather resistant barrier, which would provide an easy path for water to enter the wall assembly.
    Why would I kid?

    Besides that, I was referring to bottom course of brick (not a window). Code or no code, flashing is rarely, if ever, used at the bottom sill around here.

    I feel fairly certain that I did not drill too deep as to puncture the brick ledge.

    Bruce

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  21. #21

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    over the sheathing material around the perimeter of the opening, including corners, do not require additional flashing; jamb flashing may also be omitted when specifically approved by the building official.
    I would take that to mean no flashing is required around the window opening. Not saying I am right... just wish things were worded better.

    Say there is no through wall flashing at the sill area of a window, and the housewrap and flashing was properly installed. Most of the water should drain down the backside of the brick veneer, and the water that seeps onto the housewrap should drain down the housewrap onto the through wall flashing at the base of the wall.... that water should then drain out of the wall cavity.

    Nothing listed above is best practice, just bare min. standards being applied.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    over the sheathing material around the perimeter of the opening, including corners, do not require additional flashing; jamb flashing may also be omitted when specifically approved by the building official.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    I would take that to mean no flashing is required around the window opening.
    No, that is not what it is saying.

    It is saying flashing is required at the top of the window ... unless it is a self-flashing window which meets those requirements.

    It is also saying that flashing is required at the jambs of the window ... unless the building official *SPECIFICALLY* approves it otherwise ... not 'approves it' by virtue of signing the inspection card, but *SPECIFICALLY* approves it.

    ... just wish things were worded better.
    Yeah, like deleting the part about the building official having the right to approve no jamb flashing.

    Say there is no through wall flashing at the sill area of a window,
    You can say that, but one is required.

    and the housewrap and flashing was properly installed. Most of the water should drain down the backside of the brick veneer, and the water that seeps onto the housewrap should drain down the housewrap onto the through wall flashing at the base of the wall...
    ... if that flashing is installed ...

    that water should then drain out of the wall cavity.
    Yes, but why risk putting more water into the wall cavity than necessary, if, when done correctly, that will not happen.

    That's like saying the speed limit is 70 mph, but, if I drive careful, and there is little traffic, I might be able to drive 120 mph and never have an accident.

    Yeah, maybe, but ... maybe not.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  23. #23

    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Every time I read R703.8 I get confused on exactly what it says... I am not a code official and don't get paid to interpret the codes.

    I may just write up the lack of flashing as being questionable at this location, and let the buyer know they would have to contact the AHJ to determine their take on it.

    For the record, I hope you are right since it would be better to have the flashing at this location. It just seems dumb that they would allow head flashing to be omitted while requiring sill flashing beneath the windows... it doesn't make sense to me.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    It just seems dumb that they would allow head flashing to be omitted while requiring sill flashing beneath the windows... it doesn't make sense to me.
    Think of it this way ...

    The head flashing is to keep the water out from getting into the top of the window.

    With a self-flashed window, you don't have to worry about that ('should not have to' worry about that).

    The sill flashing is a through the wall flashing and is intended to bring any water back out to the exterior face of the wall. Thus, because you have a rather large opening in the brick veneer (the window), all the water which passes through that opening (and hits the window) should be, to the best extent possible, taken back out to the exterior face of the brick veneer.

    Sure, there is a weather resisting barrier, house wrap, (WRB) on the house, but you don't want anymore water on it than need be. The more water you keep off of it, the less chance there is of water penetrating through flaws in the WRB.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    These installation details have been around for a while.

    Where did they drill the alarm sensor holes?
    I hope not through the sill, like most that I see.
    Window warranty shot along with any attempts at properly flashing the sill.

    Attached Files Attached Files
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    While we're on this subject...what is the name of the product or group of products that looks like one-sided fly paper and is stuck above a door or window? It has an adhesive on one side and presses over the item to be flashed.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  27. #27
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    While we're on this subject...what is the name of the product or group of products that looks like one-sided fly paper and is stuck above a door or window? It has an adhesive on one side and presses over the item to be flashed.

    Peel and stick flashing.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Peel and stick flashing.
    Thanks.

    So, (and I don't have a diagram) is it to be stuck over the building wrap or under?

    The reason I'm asking is that I did some draw inspections yesterday on new const. I had seen the peel/stick flashing previously but not used in the same manner as I did yesterday.

    I wish I had a picture but I was a long way from the truck.

    I was over the building wrap and had been secured with nails and staples.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  29. #29
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    Thanks.

    So, (and I don't have a diagram) is it to be stuck over the building wrap or under?
    Depends. (Dang, don't you hate answers like that?)

    Some say 'over the building wrap', some say 'directly on the sheathing with the building wrap over it', some say either way, some 'allow' the other way not stated (i.e., at least one brand states 'directly on the sheathing with the building wrap over it and taped and sealed to it', then the manufacturer will send a letter stating it 'may be applied over the building wrap').

    The reason I'm asking is that I did some draw inspections yesterday on new const. I had seen the peel/stick flashing previously but not used in the same manner as I did yesterday.
    The best way to find out is to read of box left on the job, or, if nothing is left on the job, look the manufacturer up on the internet and look for installation instructions on their web site ... then call them and ask them (to verify that is what they really mean).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  30. #30
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    Default Re: I found a house that installed weepholes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Depends. (Dang, don't you hate answers like that?)

    Some say 'over the building wrap', some say 'directly on the sheathing with the building wrap over it', some say either way, some 'allow' the other way not stated (i.e., at least one brand states 'directly on the sheathing with the building wrap over it and taped and sealed to it', then the manufacturer will send a letter stating it 'may be applied over the building wrap').



    The best way to find out is to read of box left on the job, or, if nothing is left on the job, look the manufacturer up on the internet and look for installation instructions on their web site ... then call them and ask them (to verify that is what they really mean).
    Didn't think of that. That's why you're master.

    PS, I felt fairly certain the mfr. wouldn't recommend the staples and nails.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

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