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  1. #66
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Boyz: True to form, Nick has hired the best and brightest to run forward patrol. This lass is not to be out-written by those with a paucity of synapses. I would take her to task (so to speak), but happen to agree with a large amount of the information she is imparting.

    In the event that you believe NACHO's online exam experience to be much different than many of the state-required exams, look again. The TACO (read TREC) exam, at least when I took it, was simplistic beyond description. The only difference was that they were not sophisticated enough to put the damned thing online, so to further embarrass me, I was forced to drive 7 hours round trip to participate in the farce in Austin.

    This is all very closely related to many other topics which are discussed at length on this forum. The bar has been lowered friends, but not as low as it will go; that is yet to come. So then, look around at the plethora of under-educated, under-experienced, price-cutting, agent-ass-kissing morons that populate this profession. This is not the work of one evil genius in the form of Nick Gromicko. Only the simplistic idiots of the world would believe in an omnipotent anti-deity (or deity for that matter). We have met the enemy, and he is us.

    Last edited by A.D. Miller; 12-29-2009 at 06:36 AM.
    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #67
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Tom, I did some research regarding your "fluff" comment and came up with this.

    InterNACHI's free, online Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course includes:
    • 36 sections;
    • many original graphics and diagrams;
    • 4 quizzes;
    • a 35-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course includes:
    • 25 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Residential Standards of Practices course includes:
    • 12 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 12 quizzes;
    • 100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Residential Plumbing Overview for Inspectors course includes:
    • 15 sections (103 pages);
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 12 quizzes;
    • 70-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Electrical Inspection course includes:
    • 33 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 7 quizzes;
    • 100 question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Roofing Inspection course includes:
    • 32 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 8 quizzes;
    • a 75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online HVAC Inspection course includes:
    • 24 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 8 quizzes;
    • 75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Structural Inspection course includes:
    • 16 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 3 quizzes;
    • 65-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Exterior Inspection course includes:
    • 43 sections;
    • 54,286 words;
    • 135 photos, graphics, and diagrams;
    • 3 tables;
    • 18 quizzes;
    • a 60-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online How to Inspect the Attic, Insulation, Ventilation and Interior course includes:
    • 33 sections;
    • over 40,000 words;
    • 50 photos, graphics, and diagrams;
    • 10 tables;
    • 12 quizzes;
    • a 60-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Deck Inspections course includes:
    • 35 sections;
    • 80 photos, diagrams and custom graphics;
    • 5 quizzes;
    • a 25-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Moisture Intrusion Inspection course includes:
    • 43 sections (31,000 words);
    • 140 photos and diagrams;
    • 5 quizzes;
    • 50-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Green Building course includes:
    • 55 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 54 quizzes;
    • 100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Wood-Destroying Organism Inspection course includes:
    • 30 sections;
    • 131 photos and diagrams;
    • 19 quizzes;
    • 100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Mold Inspection course includes:
    • 30 sections;
    • hundreds of photos and diagrams;
    • 11 quizzes;
    • a 120-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course includes:
    • 37 sections;
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • a 25-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Log Home Inspection course includes:
    • 73 sections (240 pages long);
    • many photos and diagrams;
    • 100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Radon Measurement Service Provider course includes:
    • 20 sections;
    • 216 photos and diagrams;
    • 7 quizzes;
    • 100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    InterNACHI's free, online Commercial Inspection Prerequisite course includes:
    • 32 sections;
    • 49 quizzes;
    • 20-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
    • instant grading;
    • a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
    • accreditations and state approvals.
    Fluff? Really? Fluff?

    And since we are on the topic of education Tom Edwards, I'm sorry to inform you that you are being sent back to remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school in June. LOL

    Last edited by Lisa Endza; 12-29-2009 at 07:02 AM.
    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  3. #68
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    That is correct. There is no extra charge to members for their certification. It is included in their membership fee. But I don't know what you mean by These are very large, approved and accredited inspection courses with numerous quizzes and lengthy exams. Can you explain?

    Thank you!
    Your association, alone, issues CERTIFICATION, with cute emblems I might add, to all members who achieve a passing score on an UNPROCTORED, ONLINE EXAM, with the accompanying fee, of course.
    There is no other entity, be it a regulatory board or professional association that provides such a low threshold for the awarding of "CERTIFIED" to the submitting parties. Regulatory boards issue licenses but they do not award CERTIFICATIONS to the licensees. Other associations may also place a certification award on their members after certain achievements but, at least one association, requires that the applicant present themselves to a proctor, provide verifiable identification and take an exam in the presence of a proctor. Gosh. I know that sounds really hard but that's how its done in the real world. Just ask those professionals who have earned their certification in that manner. Anything less is simply laughable and a disgrace to this industry.

    I don't have an opinion regarding your supplemental courses and quizzes, Lisa. I'm only concerned about the travesty of issueing CERTIFICATION to applicants in such a manner that there are numerous pets around this nation with CERTIFICATION awards from your organization. If you were serious about the VALUE of your CERTIFICATE you would be concerned about the process that leads to that travesty. In truth, its only about the money that can be taken from the truly desparate.

    This industry is in its infancy as yet. Some day we will look back on how inspectors "earned" certification by taking an unproctored exam online and wonder how anyone could be so gullible to accept it as evidence of competence. Not to say that any other manner of licensing by the states is at the level that it should be but it is head and shoulders above the method of CERTIFICATION in question.

    Did you know that it was once possible to become an Medical Doctor by successfully achieving a passing grade from a correspondence school up through the early 20th century in this country? One successful student was from the Asheville, NC area around the 1920's. Although North Carolina had no provision for licensing such candidates Nebraska was still accepting correspondence school students in that era. The fledgling AMA, along with state governments, were able to force the reckless "doctor and surgeon" to Texas and then across the border to Mexico where he continued to practice. Although he had earned millions, and this continued during the Depression years, from his "surgical practice". He bought a radio station in Mexico to continue his campaign against those mean bureaucrats and medical practioners. (Doctors who had actually been trained in medical schools and taken proctored exams.) He died pennyless years later. Consider all the people, men and their families, harmed during his practicing years. Finally, Nebraska closed the door on that foolishness.

    Wonder why people ever questioned the value of a surgeon who had been awarded his degree from a correspondence school?
    If it is good enough for a Home Inspector on whom buyers place their financial trust why wouldn't it be acceptable for other professions as I've illustrated in this post and others earlier?
    The answer: because the public hasn't demanded it yet. Eventually, they will. It will take generations to occur but it will happen. Meanwhile, you can continue to "soak it up" just like the old medical correspondence schools. If you take any pride in what you do I can find no virtue in it.

    Continuing the story.....
    This same doctor performed thousands of surgeries to restore sexual potentsy in his patients by replacing non-functioning testicals with replacements from a goat. Many of his patients claimed they were cured. Others subsequently died from infections. If you don't see a parallel in this I rest my case for the jury.


  4. #69
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    And since we are on the topic of education Tom Edwards, I'm sorry to inform you that you are being sent back to remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school in June. LOL

    It is clear that you are not taking this discussion seriously.
    I'm through.
    Enjoy the fruits of your deceptive labors.
    I can only point out the fault. I have not the power to correct it.


  5. #70
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Tom Edwards, you harm consumers with your argument against online training, quizzes and exams. And because much of an inspection report includes safety issues, the harm may be physical, instead of merely financial. In some cases, the harm may result in the actual death of either the inspector or the consumer.

    InterNACHI's free online and online video courses are perfect for educating and improving the competence of home inspectors and providing options for their primary and Continuing Education. Advantages over classroom courses include:

    Cost of Course: Online courses are inexpensive or free. Dollar for dollar, an inspector can complete many online courses for the same cost as a single classroom course. The more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

    Cost of Travel: There are no travel or hotel costs associated with online courses. By contrast, relevant classroom courses, which are few and far between, cause the inspector to incur out-of-pocket travel and accommodation costs. Again, the more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

    Cost of Lost Work: An inspector need not take off work to complete online courses. Online courses can be taken at night, on the weekends, or whenever an inspector doesn’t have any inspections scheduled. By contrast, classroom courses are often offered only during the day and require the inspector to suffer lost business. Again, the more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

    Cost Advantage to Consumers: Online inspection courses are simply more affordable to inspectors. With reduced course costs come an increase in the number of courses an inspector can afford to complete each year, with a corresponding rise in the level of inspector competence. Increasing the level of inspector competence is a direct benefit to consumers. Lower-cost education also gives inspectors the opportunity to pass on savings to consumers. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by delaying the inspector's professional progress.

    Accessibility: Online courses are available all the time, anytime, from anywhere. By contrast, classroom courses for the inspection industry are few and far between. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by limiting access to education for inspectors.

    Collaboration in Development: Online course development often includes collaboration among many experts and inspectors from around the world. For example, it is not unusual for InterNACHI’s online courses to be the product of dozens of contributors. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by often lacking in international collaborative development.

    Expert Instruction: Online course developers can hire many experts to contribute to each course. Often in online video courses, the instruction is presented by one or more renowned experts. By contrast, classroom instructors, though perhaps competent to teach about a particular subject, are rarely international experts. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by denying renowned expertise instruction to inspectors.

    Number of Instructors: Online courses often utilize more than one instructor with more than one area of expertise. By contrast, most classroom courses are taught by one instructor. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by limiting the number of expert instructors per course.

    Accuracy: Online courses are reviewed for accuracy before being released. Online courses are also subjected to industry-wide peer review forever. By contrast, classroom instruction is rarely reviewed by anyone. The author of this article personally knows of a physics professor who had been teaching the use of an incorrect formula for over 30 years before the error was ever caught. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by failing to correct misinformation given to inspectors in a timely fashion.

    Current Course Material: Downloadable, printable online course material is reviewed, edited and improved over time. By contrast, classroom texts are less frequently updated. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less able to provide inspectors with current course material.

    Pictures and Video: Online courses contain pictures and on-location video that permit the inspector to virtually accompany the instructors on inspections of many actual structures and components. By contrast, classroom courses can’t take inspectors into crawlspaces or on roofs. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by failing to provide inspectors with virtual, real-situation training.

    Pace: Online courses move at each inspector’s desired pace. Online courses can be stopped and re-started. Online video can be paused. By contrast, classroom courses move at only the instructor’s speed. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to teach at each inspector’s own pace.

    Wasted Time: Online courses are edited to cut out set-up time, off-topic discussions, bathroom breaks, lunch time, etc. By contrast, classroom courses contain much wasted time. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by diluting the training time with things that don't increase inspector competence.

    Schedule: Online courses are available when each inspector wants to take them. By contrast, classroom courses have inflexible schedules that require inspectors to attend when it is inconvenient, when the inspector is ill, when the inspector is tired, etc. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by forcing inspectors to study and learn at a preset schedule.

    Quizzes and Exams: Online courses contain numerous short quizzes that assure the inspector has learned each section before moving on to the next. These quizzes are graded instantly, and often alert the inspector to incorrect answers immediately. Some even have built-in intelligence which recognizes each inspector’s unique areas of weakness, and reviews those areas until the inspector grasps them. Classroom courses typically have fewer quizzes, without instant grading. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less diligent about assuring that each inspector has learned every concept being taught.

    Review: Online courses permit inspectors to go back and review areas of weakness. For example, InterNACHI’s online video courses permit the inspector to rewind and replay them over and over. By contrast, classroom material is typically covered only once. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to allow inspectors go back and repeat material to strengthen his/her particular areas of weakness.

    Repeat: Online courses permit inspectors to take the course over again. By contrast, classroom courses are typically taken only once. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being all but impossible for inspectors to re-take over and over.

    Instant Grading: Online courses contain quizzes and final exams that are graded instantly. Instant grading permits the inspector to be alerted to areas of weakness while still engaged in the course. By contrast, classroom courses typically don’t grade instantly. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to instantly grade each quiz and exam.

    Consistent Grading: Online courses and quizzes are graded consistently over time and around the world. By contrast, classroom courses grade easier or harder, depending on where and when the inspector takes each course. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to grade inspectors consistently.

    Advanced Courses: It is financially feasible to offer advanced courses online. An online course need only be developed once, yet can run for years. By contrast, classroom courses usually must be of an introductory nature to attract enough students to pay for an instructor each time it is offered. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to financially sustain advanced course offerings.

    Specialty Courses: It is financially feasible to offer specialty courses online. An online course need only be developed once, yet can run for years. By contrast, classroom courses usually must have a common enough appeal of subject matter in order to attract enough students to pay for an instructor each time it is offered. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to financially sustain specialty course offerings.

    Choice: Online courses offer inspectors a wide variety of choices in both level and subject matter. By contrast, classroom courses are fewer and farther between. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less likely to offer the training inspectors need, when and where they need it.

    Communication: Online courses often provide an Internet forum for all current students, graduates, instructors, experts, developers and interested parties from around the world to interact with each other and discuss the course. These course-specific forums provide continuing education to inspectors long after completing the course. Classroom courses harm consumers by rarely providing such widespread, post-course interaction.

    Harvard, Yale, and the U.S. Military agree with InterNACHI. InterNACHI's courses are widely accepted, approved, and accredited. Even the U.S. Department of Education agrees with InterNACHI and after a 12-year study released this 93 page report admitting that online education is better than classroom: U.S. Department of Education study showing online courses are better than classroom courses.

    In summary, InterNACHI's online courses allow inspectors to study and learn at little or no cost, without having to travel or lose business, when and where they want, with well-developed, accurate courses, taught by experts, using updated course material, pictures and video, at their own pace and schedule, with the ability to review and repeat, and with the assurance of full understanding in the topics they choose to increase their competence in.

    As for me trying to counter your argument in opposition to online education, quizzes and exams, where you eloquently point out:
    This same doctor performed thousands of surgeries to restore sexual potentsy in his patients by replacing non-functioning testicals with replacements from a goat.
    All I can say is that you'll have to pack your own lunch each day come June, as there is no cafeteria service at the remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school.

    Last edited by Lisa Endza; 12-29-2009 at 08:10 AM.
    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  6. #71
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    It is clear that you are not taking this discussion seriously.
    I'm through.
    Enjoy the fruits of your deceptive labors.
    I can only point out the fault. I have not the power to correct it.

    I see I must repeat myself for the intellectually challenged.


  7. #72
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quite frankly, the sanctimony of some members here is enough to send me to another certification course of study, one that allowed me to learn the trade at my own pace and review and improve my retention and progress. Nice post Lisa.
    That said, there is no substitute for some field trade experience prior to becoming an inspector, all things being even, that experience will prove itself more valuable than classroom learning alone. Some people still don't get that, sadly.

    I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...

  8. #73
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    there is no substitute for some field trade experience prior to becoming an inspector
    JC: Therein lies the rub. I know of no licensing authority that stipulates residential building trade experience as a prerequisite for licensing HIs. Even if they did, which trade would one choose to the exclusion of the others?


  9. #74
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    I would take her to task (so to speak), but happen to agree with a large amount of the information she is imparting.

    In the event that you believe NACHO's online exam experience to be much different than many of the state-required exams, look again. The TACO (read TREC) exam, at least when I took it, was simplistic beyond description. The only difference was that they were not sophisticated enough to put the damned thing online, so to further embarrass me, I was forced to drive 7 hours round trip to participate in the farce in Austin.

    Only the simplistic idiots of the world would believe in an omnipotent anti-deity (or deity for that matter). We have met the enemy, and he is us.

    Mr. Miller.
    It seems to me that you have missed the point of my message with Lisa. The core issue is the offering of CERTIFICATION to any candidate who successfully completes an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED QUIZ OR EXAM.
    I have highlighted the two issues for your notice.

    Taking an exam on a PC or online is certainly acceptable as long as it is carefully (1) PROCTORED and the (2) identification of the examinee is verified.
    I hope you will agree that it is much more difficult, and perhaps impossible, to provided for these two crucial factors when an exam or quiz is taken both online and in the comfort of your own home, don't you agree? The fact that certificates have been provided bearing the names of pets rather than humans should be accepted as evidence of this truth.

    If we agree on this then we are not far from agreeing that the issuance of any form of CERTIFICATION after completion of an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED exam is absolutely rediculous.
    By doing so, the organization that provides such documentation has no desire to (1) verify the identity of the examinee and that the examinee is taking the exam without help from other sources and as a direct result of item #1 (2) that the documentation of CERTIFICATION has any recognizable value, even though there is an ongoing effort by the issuing organization to assign significant value to the CERTIFICATION document for the purpose of gaining favorable placement of the holder in the marketplace.

    I hope the progression of logic used in this missive is acceptable to you. I have tried to keep it unencumbered with superfluous issues.

    Moving to another of your comments.....

    I gather that it is your desire that any LICENSING EXAM required by a state regulatory board be psychometrically analyzed with the intent to test applicants knowledge base at a higher level than is now required. I would agree with you, however, you must understand that they have a legislatively-driven responsibility to use an exam that tests for the "minimum level" of knowledge necessary to perform as a licensee in their respective state. That issue was discussed each time I participated in the construction of the National Home Inspector Exam, which is used by roughly 20 states to license inspectors.
    The state's citizens and the members of the legislature require that the regulatory board set the knowledge base required for licensing no higher than they can justify. However, everyone who takes a licensing exam must take it in a PROCTORED ENVIRONMENT WITH POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION.

    That very fact makes the licensing exams acceptable. They have verified the identity of the examinee and there is no possibility that the examinee could enlist help from any outside source while taking the exam. Seems like a simple difference, I know. But it is crucial to the argument of CERTIFICATION vs. LICENSING.

    Universities, on the other hand, can set their standards for successful graduation at any level and may change them as they wish. They have different rules entirely. We, the public, recognize that graduation from some graduate schools is a much greater achievement than others which might not have set as high a "bar" for successful completion.

    As for your comments regarding "simplistic idiots" who believe in a deity, I confess. Like most people I have waffled between belief and disbelief during my years as I approach the age of 61. I feel that my belief in a deity has become bolstered by persons with degrees in astronomical physics, of which I know very little about. Naturalists often state how they can't understand why anyone could believe that our beautiful world "just happened". Astronomical Physics doctorates have ascerted that the margins between the placement of the sun and earth that allows for human life to exist are so small that it seems incomprehensible to them how it "just happened". They have similar observances on the key role that our only moon plays as well as the planets and their placement in our solar system. A mentor once asked me "how many times do you think you would have to toss the individual parts of a wrist watch into the air to allow for them to assemble theirselves into a fully operating time piece upon hitting the floor". I can't fathom how that can happen and I believe the universe in which we live is far more complex than any man-made wrist watch.

    We need to remember that Darwin's theory remains unproven, although the scientific community has perpetrated several attempts to scam us with several so-called, man-assembled "discoveries" over the years. Thankfully, each of those were called out for the frauds that they were. There are honest scientists. Just not all.

    I share my beliefs with you only because of your comments regarding us "simplistic idiots". I am happy to identified as a believer. I know I am in good company. A majority, though not all, of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were believers in a deity of one nature or another. One only has to look at their preserved letters and public documents to know that.

    Lastly, I don't have a problem with your disbelief in a deity. I would hope, for the sake of comity, that you withhold your disdain for those of us with a belief.

    Last edited by Tom Edwards; 12-30-2009 at 04:20 PM. Reason: mispelled word

  10. #75
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    The large skill set required to do a proper home inspection is so broad that InterNACHI doesn't believe competence can be confirmed by any ONE exam, proctored or not. And issuing certification based on only one, minimum-standard, beginners exam that states use to license newbies fresh out of school is even more ridiculous.

    InterNACHI's certification is not exam-based and certainly not SINGLE exam-based. It is education based. And yes, for the overall benefit of consumers everywhere, InterNACHI's approved and accredited inspector education is online and free.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  11. #76
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.

    You have guys scrambling to minimize the largest association of home inspectors in the universe for offering on line education , as they come to this very site for education every day.

    (Duh , I just did a home and can you tell me if it looks right.)

    Every single hater (code for jealous) better not ask another question here on this forum as it is online.

    You guys come here everyday because you think you might learn something that your do nothing group has not taught you.

    Knocking any form of education unless the advise is bad ,makes one a hypocritical , ignorant Moran.

    Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

    To bad none of you haters is learning anything here or anywhere on the internet as you are to dumb to learn unless some instructor taking your money is holding your hand.

    First course I suggest is reading 101.


  12. #77
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    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.

    Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

    First course I suggest is reading 101.
    I agree with you Bob.

    I sure don't understand how anyone here would think nachi is stealing their business, when you go the nachi site, the nacho nicki certified eletes are complaining that ASHI members are stealing business from them.

    Of course I still cannot understand why Lisa feels the need to come here and sell her non-stop beginners non verfied crap.
    I believe this is where she should practice reading 101, in her own house, instead of non stop selling of usless BS here

    If what she has to sell was everthing she claimed it to be, every inspector would be begging to be a nacho cetified inspector. Instead nickey is sending here here to beg for $s from us.

    Hmmmm. She cannot convince members of her own org how bogus nachos non verified certificiations, and how elemenatry some of the courses she's bragging about are.
    If she cannot convince many nacho members, how does she expect to convince non nacho members how great nacho and nachos non verfied certificiations are.?
    OH YEA I remember, this board is open to everybody, not censored, and when this topic disclosing the truth about nacho comes up here, it's not deleted here, like it is on the nacho board.

    I do have to admit I am applying reading Home Inspection 102. "" If it doesn't look right it's probley not right. """
    And common sense 103 ... "IF you think some one is going to give you something for free, your a darn fool"
    Logic 101 " If nachos stuff was so good there would not be any reason for Lisa to come here and defend it, or keep trying to shove it down our throats

    Last edited by Dan Harris; 12-30-2009 at 05:21 PM.
    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  13. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    I agree with you Bob.

    I sure don't understand how anyone here would think nachi is stealing their business when you go the nachi site, the nacho nicki certified eletes are complaining that ASHI members are stealing business from them.

    Of course I still cannot understand why Lisa feels the need to come here and sell her non-stop beginners non verfied crap.
    I believe this is where she should practice reading 101, in her own house, instead of non stop selling of usless BS here

    If what she has to sell was everthing she claimed it to be, every inspector would be begging to be a nacho cetified inspector. Instead nickey is sending here here to beg for $s from us.

    Hmmmm. She cannot convince members of her own org how bogus nachos non verified certificiations, and how elemenatry some of the courses she's bragging about are.
    If she cannot convince many nacho members, how does she expect to convince non nacho members how great nacho and nachos non verfied certificiations are.?
    OH YEA I remember, this board is open to everybody, not censored, and when this topic disclosing the truth about nacho comes up here, it's not deleted here, like it is on the nacho board.

    I do have to admit I am applying reading Home Inspection 102. "" If it doesn't look right it's probley not right. """
    And common sense 103 ... "IF you think some one is going to give you something for free, your a darn fool"
    Logic 101 If nachos stuff was so good there would not be any reason for Lisa to come here and defend it, or keep trying to shove it down our throats
    Wow
    Lisa came here and answered all questions in a professional manner and the villagers still hold up torches.

    I agree she is wasting her time to preach physics in kindergarten.

    Well I gotta go back as i am in the middle of the new IRC 2009 prep quiz.
    Sorry but only for members.


  14. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    This thread has bounced in a few directions. I would like to respond to a few issues.

    First an formost in my heart is EDI. EDI's reputation is second to none. I have taken both online and classroom courses with EDI, and appreciated both venues.

    The online course gave me the oppertunity spend as much time as necessary to absorb and to retain more content... there was so much information. The classroom gave me the oppertunity interact with the instructors and fellow participants. Each of which was an already accomplished inspector or building envelope professional. I had the oppertunity to question, debate, and to learn from other's experiences.

    Every instructor, was an expert in their field, and they all connected with the class.

    By the way, the final exam for the online course was carefully proctored in a controlled location. It was a respectful experience.

    Regardless of the subject, both on line and classroom have pros and cons.

    A chef fresh out of cooking school, a mechanic out of technical school... or a Home Inspector out of HI school is not going to start out at the top of their game. Those that have related experience will do better than those who have none. The more diversified the experience, better yet.

    What is more important is what one does with the newly aqquired knowledge. Some will continue to grow and get better at what they do, most will fade away, a few will become legends. That is life.

    The same goes for the associations. Each has a different flavor. I know some really good inspectors from all of the associations... and then there are some from all of the associations that are either blind, dumb, or experts at writing RE friendly reports.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  15. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,829

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    This thread has bounced in a few directions. I would like to respond to a few issues.

    First an formost in my heart is EDI. EDI's reputation is second to none. I have taken both online and classroom courses with EDI, and appreciated both venues.

    The online course gave me the oppertunity spend as much time as necessary to absorb and to retain more content... there was so much information. The classroom gave me the oppertunity interact with the instructors and fellow participants. Each of which was an already accomplished inspector or building envelope professional. I had the oppertunity to question, debate, and to learn from other's experiences.

    Every instructor, was an expert in their field, and they all connected with the class.

    By the way, the final exam for the online course was carefully proctored in a controlled location. It was a respectful experience.

    Regardless of the subject, both on line and classroom have pros and cons.

    A chef fresh out of cooking school, a mechanic out of technical school... or a Home Inspector out of HI school is not going to start out at the top of their game. Those that have related experience will do better than those who have none. The more diversified the experience, better yet.

    What is more important is what one does with the newly aqquired knowledge. Some will continue to grow and get better at what they do, most will fade away, a few will become legends. That is life.

    The same goes for the associations. Each has a different flavor. I know some really good inspectors from all of the associations... and then there are some from all of the associations that are either blind, dumb, or experts at writing RE friendly reports.
    Good post Steven, I agree with you 100%.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  16. #81
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Taking an exam on a PC or online is certainly acceptable as long as it is carefully (1) PROCTORED and the (2) identification of the examinee is verified.
    TE: You mean carefully overseen like the folks who let the bomber on the Northwest/Delta flight, or careful like the people who assured us there were WMD, or detail-oriented like the engineers who sent the first Hubble telescope out in non-functional condition, or what?

    I hope you will agree that it is much more difficult, and perhaps impossible, to provided for these two crucial factors when an exam or quiz is taken both online and in the comfort of your own home
    TE: While I do agree, I still do not see much difference than allowing, just for one isolated example, ASHI members to keep track of their own CEUs.

    If we agree on this then we are not far from agreeing that the issuance of any form of CERTIFICATION after completion of an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED exam is absolutely rediculous.
    TE: I would not go that far.

    I hope the progression of logic used in this missive is acceptable to you. I have tried to keep it unencumbered with superfluous issues.
    TE: Quite the stodgy statement.

    I gather that it is your desire that any LICENSING EXAM required by a state regulatory board be psychometrically analyzed with the intent to test applicants knowledge base at a higher level than is now required. I would agree with you, however, you must understand that they have a legislatively-driven responsibility to use an exam that tests for the "minimum level" of knowledge necessary to perform as a licensee in their respective state.
    TE: Psychometricians and legislators have at least one thing in common: they are both slick, manipulative con artists who have been appointed by the sheep to rape them.

    But it is crucial to the argument of CERTIFICATION vs. LICENSING.
    TE: Yes, it is. Licensing is a taxation masquerading as the granting of permission to conduct a business. Certification is an attempt to prove or illustrate one's proficiency in a particular skill.

    As for your comments regarding "simplistic idiots" who believe in a deity, I confess.
    TE: Confess what?


    I am happy to identified as a believer.
    TE: And, that is your cross to bear, pun intended.

    A majority, though not all, of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were believers in a deity of one nature or another.
    TE: You obviously have not done your homework on this one.

    Lastly, I don't have a problem with your disbelief in a deity. I would hope, for the sake of comity, that you withhold your disdain for those of us with a belief.
    TE: I would, except for the fact that the zealousness of the religious man is the bane of civilization.


  17. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    High Point, NC
    Posts
    97

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Mr. Miller.

    You obviously have contempt for anyone confessing a belief in a deity of any nature. I do not proselytize or preach. I am just as wary of someone who claims no belief as of one who is quick to claim one.
    I will, however, point out that the spirit of good will between men originates with a belief that we all are created in the image of our creator and are valued by the creator as a result.
    Humanism, which is what generally serves as a moral code for atheists, does not accept that everyone has such value.
    Socially liberal movements like the National Socialist Democratic Party (NAZI) which began in the 1920's agrees more with your point of view regarding deism. I wouldn't be proud of that.
    There is ample evidence of abuse and torture of humans due to the desires of "the church" as well. Mankind can be just as wrong while wearing the vestiges of a priest as they can swinging a machete.

    Regarding my statement of the signers of the Declaration. You have an opportunity to present your proof. I await your answer.


  18. #83
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    Mr. Miller.

    You obviously have contempt for anyone confessing a belief in a deity of any nature. I do not proselytize or preach. I am just as wary of someone who claims no belief as of one who is quick to claim one.
    I will, however, point out that the spirit of good will between men originates with a belief that we all are created in the image of our creator and are valued by the creator as a result.
    Humanism, which is what generally serves as a moral code for atheists, does not accept that everyone has such value.
    Socially liberal movements like the National Socialist Democratic Party (NAZI) which began in the 1920's agrees more with your point of view regarding deism. I wouldn't be proud of that.
    There is ample evidence of abuse and torture of humans due to the desires of "the church" as well. Mankind can be just as wrong while wearing the vestiges of a priest as they can swinging a machete.

    Regarding my statement of the signers of the Declaration. You have an opportunity to present your proof. I await your answer.
    TE: I just came off a six-in-a-row short week and it's New Year's Eve. Let's give it a break for a day or two and I promise to continue along the same lines.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!


  19. #84
    Joao Vieira's Avatar
    Joao Vieira Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    what was this about


  20. #85
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Joao Vieira View Post
    what was this about
    JV: It was about a month ago . . .


  21. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    a cold night in December...

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  22. #87
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
    Mitchell Toelle Guest

    Default Re: Exterior Design Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.

    You have guys scrambling to minimize the largest association of home inspectors in the universe for offering on line education , as they come to this very site for education every day.

    (Duh , I just did a home and can you tell me if it looks right.)

    Every single hater (code for jealous) better not ask another question here on this forum as it is online.

    You guys come here everyday because you think you might learn something that your do nothing group has not taught you.

    Knocking any form of education unless the advise is bad ,makes one a hypocritical , ignorant Moran.

    Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

    To bad none of you haters is learning anything here or anywhere on the internet as you are to dumb to learn unless some instructor taking your money is holding your hand.

    First course I suggest is reading 101.
    How about writing, spelling, punctuation, grammar and proof reading 101, Bob?


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