I know the install instructions for Hardiplank says that caulk is needed between joints. However, just about every hardiplank house I inspect has the caulk coming loose and not being effective. How big of a deal is that? I always recommend it needs to be caulked again, but isn't that siding pretty darn...er...hardy? What are the ramifications if it's not caulked? Siding would deteriorate over...10 years?

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Scott Dana
Dana Home Inspections, Inc.

I think that you will find an alternate method to caulking, in the manufacturer's installation instructions, to allow a sheathing strip at the joints. The ramification of failing caulk would be water penetration, not much of an issue for the siding itself, but water infiltration into the wall would be an issue.
Jim

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

Yeah, I guess it's really a matter of water penetration as opposed to deterioration with the siding, good point. I guess I was thinking there would still be that protective barrier (assuming it was installed) that would help keep water out. But I guess that is only what it is, protective, and not a water-proof barrier.

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Scott Dana
Dana Home Inspections, Inc.

May be issue for siding itself also.

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Dave

David is that Hardi plank brand of siding or hard board siding?
IF that is Hardi plank, that is the first time I have seen an issue with water degradation with any cemetious(sp?) siding product.
Not saying it can't or won't happen, but Hardi plank is pretty resistant to water damage in my experience.
Of course your picture is of a installation that violates all siding installation instructions that I have seen.

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

That is Hardi plank. Confirmed by seller who was a contractor.
I do not see much of it here in New England. Thanks to this forum I called out poor installation in different new house last week. Sent client Hardiplank PDF. He was very grateful.
I doubt the joints would get same deterioration.

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Dave

That damage could be a regional thing, we don't see nearly as much freeze/thaw damage as your part of the world.
Where that product is damaged, I could easily understand it staying wet and having multiple freeze/thaw cycles.
Any type of siding would have problems there and no amount of caulk would help, that 2" clearance to roof shingles would though.
Think maybe that's why the manufacturer instructions say that?

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

How old was the siding in that picture? Granted, I am a relatively new inspector but I have not come across such bad deterioration. Like Jim, we don't have the freeze/thaw issue here in Georgia, so we may not come across something so damaged. But very interesting to see. Thanks.

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Scott Dana
Dana Home Inspections, Inc.

Scott. House was built in 1998.

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Dave

Just as I said I don't see much damage to Hardi plank, I saw some today where it was installed against shingles. Not nearly so bad as what your picture showed, but definite moisture damage. Clearance to the shingle is important and moisture damage is possible on Hardi plank!
Jim

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

Our house has hardie plank siding that has large gaps between the planks. In some cases, the planks are cracking near the nails as the siding has apparently expanded and contracted too much. Our house is only 7 years old and we live in Boise, ID where it's pretty dry - high desert plains, but we do get snow and rain too.

How often should I expect to need to recaulk hardi siding? Do these photos look "normal"? It doesn't look like this siding was caulked during installation to me...

Regards,
Randy

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Part of the problem is the caulking gets hard and another part is inadequate application. I wouldn't be surprised if some has to do with your dry climate as well. Doesn't look like much caulking has been used, maybe none at some of the joints. The polyurethane caulks stay really soft and rubbery for a long time and that would be my first choice. Check with Hardie to see what type/brand they recommend. Now that the house has done its "settling", large scale movement is likely to be minimal. There will be some movement, but not as much. Use a good flexible caulk and it should last as long as the paint job. However, the paint probably will not be as flexible as the caulk. So, if you can, match up the caulk color with the paint so the lines won't be quite as noticeable when the paint separates from the caulking. In your case, you probably won't be able to because I doubt it will come in blue.

The fractures probably were caused by the nail too close to the corner/edge. Or, the siding might have been hit and weakened when the nail was driven and the crack opened up later.

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The apostrophe troll.

Cracking is the issue I see In California. Once it has a crack then it starts to fall apart. SEE PIC ATTACHED.

Best

Ron

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There are two approved methods to install Hardieplank siding - and your photo shows neither method.

Looks to me as though the cracking is a result of improperly placed nails - nails too close to the ends, nails where they are not supposed to be nails, etc.

Depends entirely on the quality of the caulking/sealant used.

A cheap caulking/sealant might not last but a year or two, while a high quality caulk/sealant might last 20 years or more. All depending on proper installation of the caulk/sealant too.

"Normal"? Unfortunately, yes, all too "normal", however, also not correct too.

I agree.

The two methods I mentioned are:

1) Install a flashing behind each joint, the flashing can be a piece of 30# felt cut to proper size and installed such that the joint lands over the center of the flashing.

2) Leave 1/8" between the ends and caulk/seal the joints.

Method 1) is the preferred option.

You can read it here in the HardiePlank installation instructions for the West (there are different installation instructions for different areas of the country). http://www.jameshardie.com/pdf/insta...plank_west.pdf

On the second page you will notice that there are two nailing methods also:

1) face nailing

2) blind nailing

If your was face nailed, it was nailed incorrectly.

If yours was blind nailed, it was nailed incorrectly.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Thanks for the replies guys - I really appreciate it. You've confirmed what I suspected was the case.

I guess my next line of questioning has to to do with what my next step should be from an accountability standpoint. I have sent my pictures to the builder and his siding contractor. On the one hand, recaulking is a normal maintenance item that I might expect. But on the other hand, the siding should have been caulked properly when it was installed the first time (I already paid to have it caulked - they just didn't caulk it). My hunch is that the unusually large gaps and shifting are due to magnified expansion/contraction caused by the siding getting wet because of lack of caulking during installation. I'm not sure whether to expect this amount of gapping to show up only 7 years after the house was built. I have a friend and coworker who lives in the same neighborhood and whose house was built at the same time as mine by a different builder: his siding looks about the same as when his house was built and he's definitely NOT experiencing what we are. I'm considering whether to just hire someone to fix things up and pay for it myself as a normal maintanence item, whether to insist that my builder share in the expense or whether to pursue legal action.

Does anyone have any experiences (good or bad) to share to help me choose a course of action from here?

Thanks again,
Randy

By far 'the cheapest' and 'least aggravating' way is to pay to correct it yourself. Talking about caulking/sealing it.

To go after the builder and his siding contractor to back the job will (in most cases) be an 'aggravating job' - are you up for it? However, it is at least worth your first try, that will not take a lot of effort on your part.

If indeed the siding was installed improperly (all we have are a couple of photos so we cannot make that determination) and you want the siding removed and replaced with properly installed siding ... then you are talking big money and a lot of effort.

Unless the builder steps up to the plate freely and willingly, you are talking about an attorney, expert witness, legal action, etc.

With no guaranty of winning your argument, without regard to whether you are right or not.

All the above said, put together as much information and photos as you can to document your case, send it to the builder and wait for their response.

This would be the first prerequisite step before any legal action anyway - giving the builder the opportunity to check it out and repair it, or respond as to what he will or will not do.

After you get the builder's response, you will need to decide your next step.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I'm painting the house, so I've used some good caulking to put between the small gaps (.125" or less). I can tell the caulking is making a good seal, however because of the nature of caulking, a seam is always noticed (by the wife). I'm telling her it's a seam, it's outside, (get over it) it's only raised off the surface of the lap hardy plank siding about 1/16". She says "it's unacceptable, and unprofessional" I want to tell her to go back inside and bake some cookies or something. But, I didn't because I know better, so I'm going to use my grey caulking to seal the seams, and to "fix" the corners where the contractor broke it. Is this the best I can do? I have to report my findings to the bossssssss. Thanks

Mike, caulk the GAP. Don't create a raised bead of caulk on the surface. Pump it INTO the gap and smooth it out like bondo on a car. The seam will never disappear totally, but the caulked joint should look better than a empty butt joint.
I hate to say it, but your wife is right.

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

First, though, remember what caulking/sealant is for.

It is to fill a space between to materials, usually two dissimilar materials, and needs to be able to do three main things: 1) BOND to what you are caulking/sealing; 2) be ELASTIC enough to allow for contraction of what it is bonded to; 3) be COMPRESSIVE enough to allow for expansion of what it is bonded to.

That means there will be times when the caulk/sealant is 'stretched', leaving an indentation, and other times when the caulk/sealant is 'compressed', leaving a ridge. SELDOM, if ever, will it be flat and smooth across. Tell your wife I said to go inside and bake some cookies for you before you will never be able to 'make it right' for her in that she wants the gaps flat and smooth with the siding. Tell here 'Honey, I have tried, and tried, but I just cannot do it, the siding keeps changing lengths on me (expanding and contracting), I am frustrated about not being able to do what you want, would you bake some cookies for me while I try to figure this out.'

Now, also, "Pump it INTO the gap" ... you really do not want to do that(the more caulk/sealant you pump in, just makes it worse) ... caulking/sealant has an elasticity rating, typically based on it intended cross section ratio of width/thickness, width should typically be 2/1 of thickness, i.e., if the joint is 1" wide, the thickness should be 1/2" or less, usually with a minimum thickness of 1/4" and a minimum width of 1/4" (I know, that is a 1/1 ratio, but those are typical minimums). Caulk/sealant should also ONLY be adhered to two surfaces, let's say the two ends of the Hardieplank siding. That caulk/sealant is now free to expand/compress across the joint. Now consider what happens when the caulk/sealant is adhered to a third side, like the back of that joint ... chances are the caulk/sealant will pull