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11-29-2007, 11:37 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 1,316
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Re: Tight as a drum
Structural gutter?!
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11-29-2007, 12:09 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 436
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Re: Tight as a drum
Originally Posted by Darren Miller
That would be a great place to scan with an IR cam. |
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11-29-2007, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Memphis TN.
Posts: 1,602
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Re: Tight as a drum
Darren,
Did you get a picture of the bottom of the wall under that gap? Had enough rain & time
passed to show the water damage?
__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.
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11-29-2007, 06:22 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Succasunna NJ
Posts: 144
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Re: Tight as a drum
Home was a foreclosure;
Gaps galore; here other beauties; gaps at windows, stairs 'stuccoed' (is that really a word?) around and another downspout.
Darren
New Jersey Home Inspection - About the House! |
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11-29-2007, 06:33 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Memphis TN.
Posts: 1,602
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Re: Tight as a drum
Originally Posted by Darren Miller
Darren,
I don't think there is a word for it. 
Some come to mind but........!!!!
__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.
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11-30-2007, 01:16 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
Posts: 94
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Re: Tight as a drum
Hi Daryn,
It is hard to tell but I think you have EIFS and if thats the case you should report the fact that it is treminated inside the EIFS system. And you should say that it is EIFS and let them decide if they want to have it inspected by an EIFS inspector who has the moisture meters to do the job right.
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Bill Brady
American Home Inspections
Las Cruces, New Mexico 88011
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11-30-2007, 02:29 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rockwall Texas
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Tight as a drum
With those types of openings around a window frame it not going to take a EIFS contractor or a rocket scientist to tell you there's going to be some moisture problem in that wall.
Was this a condo also?
If so, the HOA is probably responsible for the exterior wall although the client is probably responsible for the repairs beyond the wall if damages have occured.
EIFS is the work of Satan a homeowner told me the other day. Nothing but hell with it she said. 
rick |
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12-01-2007, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anacortes, Washington
Posts: 92
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Re: Tight as a drum
You don't need vinyl siding - we'll just use stucco! I got a cuzin who will give you a deal!
Regardless of the type of material - this place has major issues. Pull out your moisture meter and start taking readings!
//Rick
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12-02-2007, 11:53 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Succasunna NJ
Posts: 144
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Re: Tight as a drum
It was a two-family house located in a urban area. It looked like a homeowner special or possible a training project (worst I've ever seen).
Yes, it is EFIS and some sections of the insulation was never attached, I was able to pull it about 3/4 inch away from the house.
No need to have it re-inspected, I recommended (and buyer agreed) a complete removal is needed.
Darren
New Jersey Home Inspection - About the House!
Last edited by Darren Miller : 12-02-2007 at 04:29 PM.
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12-02-2007, 02:26 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
Posts: 94
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Re: Tight as a drum
This may be beating a dead horse but just a suggestion. If this buyer is going to factor in the tear off of the EIFS and the seller goes along and gives up money on the sale then a buyer may want to have a home like this inspected by someone who know what they are doing. I just may be that a complete tearoff is not necessary. A good applicator who know EIFS can work with a home like this and just fix the problem areas. I know there are many but it is worth a shot. A complete tear off cost lots of money and it is probably called for on this house but he or she should look into it before getting someone to just TEAR IT OFFF. They just might get this thing fixed for a lot less money. One thing however, the sub-straight should be moisture tested before anything is done. A tear off is great but you have to have something to put the new siding on. In this case nothing may be left under the EIFS.
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Bill Brady
American Home Inspections
Las Cruces, New Mexico 88011
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12-02-2007, 06:37 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,635
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Re: Tight as a drum
Originally Posted by William Brady
then a buyer may want to have a home like this inspected by someone who know what they are doing.
I suspect that Darren knows what he is doing, and that, even if you are some type of EIFS expert, to suggest you (if that is the implication) or someone else knows better without being there is ... let's just say 'in poor taste'.
I just may be that a complete tearoff is not necessary. A good applicator who know EIFS can work with a home like this and just fix the problem areas.
One thing however, the sub-straight should be moisture tested before anything is done.
If it is as bad as has been presented, and the buyer and seller agree to tear it off, why interfere and suggest leaving a siding which has known problems?
A tear off is great but you have to have something to put the new siding on. In this case nothing may be left under the EIFS.
Precisely why tearing the EIFS off and installing something else is a good idea.
Why entertain notions of saving the seller money when the buyer is the client - not the seller - is also beyond me, but it seems that some HIs think in those terms. |
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12-02-2007, 07:46 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
Posts: 1,750
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Re: Tight as a drum
IMHO and with 178 EIFS litigation cases under my belt since 1999, that is a tear off! Typical botched EIFS installation. I would bet my eye teeth that you won't even find any substrate. It has all turned to mulch!
Jerry said it very well....
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12-02-2007, 10:04 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
Posts: 94
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Re: Tight as a drum
Hi Darren. I hope that you understood what I was saying. Jerry always seem to find something wrong with what most say. I know he has lots of experience but his ego seems to always get in the way. I am sure you know about EIFS you live in New Jersey where lots of it can be found. I was just making a point about something I have seen in the past that worked very nicely for another homeowner I did work for in New Jersey. In there case they wanted to tear off the entire system at some expense only to find that their problem could be fixed without going through all that trouble. There were numerous problems like the ones you reported, the house was probed and it was not a wet as one might think. Areas of the home were repaired and they had a good EIFS system from then on. Sorry if my post came out wrong I did not mean to say you were not capable of inspecting that home.
Just one thing Jerry. You might want to consider that not all home inspectors have your knowledge of EIFS since it is not your everyday siding in a lot of areas. Some do and thats a good thing. SOme do but do not have the testing equiptment to do the job without getting in troulbe with some lawyer over a missed wet spot. Try to take a deep breath, and not get so over the top. It's not always comfortable to post something on this site because you are always quick to make some negative comment.
Lastly, I do like most of your wisdom it is just the style that gets to me.
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Bill Brady
American Home Inspections
Las Cruces, New Mexico 88011
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12-03-2007, 03:18 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Georgetown, KY
Posts: 232
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Re: Tight as a drum
Style, you're accusing Jerry Peck of having style. Since when 
Sometimes a guy just can't resist. |
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12-03-2007, 05:13 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Succasunna NJ
Posts: 144
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Re: Tight as a drum
Bill,
When I first read your reply, I did take it as a shot at me, but hey, I have thick skin. I re-read it before Jerry's reply and all is well.
Just for the record, here's my macro for EFIS:
"The siding is Exterior Insulation and Finish System (EIFS), also referred to as Synthetic Stucco. Some homes using this material have experienced moisture related problems inside the walls resulting in substantial damage including rot and wood deterioration to the structure. My visual inspection of the siding showed no signs damage or deterioration. This is a visual inspection only. No destructive testing is performed and many times the damage is not visible during a non invasive inspection. I am NOT a certified EFIS inspector; I do recommend you consider a review by a qualified contractor for a more detailed inspection prior to close. There is a company that will inspect and offer a warranty on EFIS."
It's quite clear this installation did not warrant this in the report.
On another note, way back in the late 70's thru the mid 80's during my days as a construction foreman & super, we were installing 'Dryvit' panels on 5 story, 140,000 sq ft office buildings. So I kinda saw first hand back then, that caulking and sealing was the most important step in installation. The second most important is having a drip edge above windows.
I have to go thru my files and get a few pictures I took last year on what can happen without a drip edge.
Darren
Last edited by Darren Miller : 12-03-2007 at 05:00 PM.
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12-03-2007, 05:25 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Succasunna NJ
Posts: 144
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Re: Tight as a drum
Here's an office building I inspected last year. It's difficult to see but the EFIS has a return in the windows. There was no drip cut into the head and water was flowing back into and behind the window (yes, the stains you see are on the inside of the glass.
Darren
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12-03-2007, 07:39 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
Posts: 94
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Re: Tight as a drum
I think I have to start using some of those smiley faces in my writing since it was taken wrong and I did not intend it to be that way. I know the company that does the warranty on EIFS and they have a great practical training program (CD Based) that you would find very interesting. I would love to talk about testing this stuff with you some time. Sealents and flashing are the key to a good system. The manufactures learned all about that some time ago the hard way. On the other hand applicator are still learning. You still hear the following( I have been going it that way for years) SO the EIFS problem goes on mainly due to ego and cost cutting. My opinion it's a great system but it needs to be installed correctly and inspected every so often. I just move to New Mexico from NYC and I do not see it here mostly hard coat in the southwest. To bad since it is a big ticket inspection. Good luck back their on the east coast I hear it's snowing!!!!!!!!
Bill B
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Bill Brady
American Home Inspections
Las Cruces, New Mexico 88011
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12-03-2007, 08:11 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 70
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Re: Tight as a drum
Not to pile on...but Bill nailed in in his last post on JP.
Agree that at least a partial tearoff is warranted at problem areas. Re-evaluation for further tearoff after seeing the extent of damage would be the most prudent course, along with complete redo of all fenestration areas and implementation of a maintenance program to monitor future developments. Good luck with that one...
All EIFS is not bad, and recommending complete tearoff before determining the extent of damage borders on irresponsibility.
Sheik yer booty! 
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I'm a dyslexic agnostic-Don't believe there is a dog...
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