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05-01-2008, 08:14 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, Utah
Posts: 184
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Rust in stucco
Is rust in the cracks of stucco created by the metal lath rusting and bleeding through the cracks? This is the conclusion I have come to. Agree or disagree. Just curious on how you report. Cracks were <1/16 inch.
Mat
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05-01-2008, 10:31 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Healdsburg Ca
Posts: 495
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Re: Rust in stucco
I would like to get an INFRARED CAMERA on that.
You got some kind of a moisture condition in that stucco.
FURTHER INSPECTION REQUIRED. Moisture meter and an INFRARED Would help. What the roof line like above this?
Any stains or moisture on the inside ?
Best
Ron
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05-01-2008, 10:34 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Healdsburg Ca
Posts: 495
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Re: Rust in stucco
After looking at the photos one more time thats an inside corner with a gutter down spout. go up top and look at that valley of the roof.
Suspect area.
Best
Ron
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05-02-2008, 05:01 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 48
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Re: Rust in stucco
It's really hard to tell from the pictures that you have posted as to what's going on. If rust is bleeding through, you are probably correct about the mesh or even nails causing the problem.
Traditional sand based stucco is going to absorb water... and dry out, so I don't think an I-Cam is going to help. Unless, the rust problem is in a specific area and you think there is a possibility that the water problem is coming from something other than natural absorbtion.
Last edited by Steven Turetsky : 05-02-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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05-02-2008, 05:26 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,641
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Re: Rust in stucco
How old is that house?
The expanded metal lath is supposed to have been corrosion protected such that that should not be happening for a very long time.
It is also quite likely, in fact 'most probable', that the stucco/metal lath/drainage plane at all incorrect (because few are installed correctly - starting with the building wrap, then the lapping of the paper and metal lath over each other, followed by the attachment of the lath, and ending with the proper application of the stucco).
Frequently, the lath is either upside down or rotated at a 90 degree angle or just rotated off the horizontal to match the slope of the roof on gable ends - expanded metal lath is required to be, it is designed and intended to be, installed horizontally on vertical surfaces, and with the right side 'up', not 'down'.
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05-02-2008, 06:14 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 726
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Re: Rust in stucco
That looks like EIFS. Are you sure it's stucco?
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05-02-2008, 06:27 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
Posts: 1,618
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Re: Rust in stucco
That might not be rust. However it certainly is a sign that you have/had water in that wall. The brown stains could and are most likely from the wood in the wall leaching out tannins as it rots.
As you are in Utah and you have a great deal of EIFS in your area and the resorts, are you sure that is stucco?
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05-02-2008, 07:10 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,641
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Re: Rust in stucco
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
The brown stains could and are most likely from the wood in the wall leaching out tannins as it rots.
Not sure about EIFS as I don't see any, but, if stucco (or even if EIFS?), the only way to see those tannins would be if there was not building wrap and no paper behind the metal lath, unless both of those have also failed miserably.
If it is stucco and if those are tannins from the wood, that would indicate that the stucco was indeed horribly installed, worse than I suspected.
With EIFS, the old barrier type, was there a protective building wrap separating that from the wood sheathing?
The new drainable EIFS has that as well as a drainage plane (as I understand it) which would make it more like stucco - two layers of protection, with the drainage plane being between them. |
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05-02-2008, 07:52 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
Posts: 1,618
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Re: Rust in stucco
Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
With EIFS, the old barrier type, was there a protective building wrap separating that from the wood sheathing?
The new drainable EIFS has that as well as a drainage plane (as I understand it) which would make it more like stucco - two layers of protection, with the drainage plane being between them.
With the old barrier systems they had no protective wrap. The foam was glued or fastened to the substrate (OSB about 90% of the time). Then it was coated with a basecoat (suppose to be the waterproofing part of the system) and then the lamina or finish coat was to add the final waterproofing to the system.
So the water seeps in and is locked in place! |
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05-02-2008, 08:26 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,641
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Re: Rust in stucco
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
With the old barrier systems they had no protective wrap. The foam was glued or fastened to the substrate (OSB about 90% of the time).
YIKES!
No wonder it was so bad. |
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05-02-2008, 09:18 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, Utah
Posts: 184
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Re: Rust in stucco
Thanks for all the info. The house is seven years old and that is stucco not EIFS. Furtermore, the rust was limited to that area. A valley with a small gutter and kick out flashing was located above the area of concern. My guess is probably Ice damming and ice build up this winter saturated the wall. However due to our very dry climate the moisture is no longer detectable. I checked the area with my flir and moisture meter but got nothing. Any additional thoughts.
Mat
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05-02-2008, 09:21 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Healdsburg Ca
Posts: 495
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Re: Rust in stucco
You may try a water test in the area. and they recheck with the Meter and IR.
Best
Ron
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05-02-2008, 10:05 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, Utah
Posts: 184
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Re: Rust in stucco
That could work, although I recommended further evaluation. Something is not right there. Furthermore, I used to live in the area and the builder has some stucco issues in the past when the project first started.
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05-02-2008, 05:12 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 48
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Re: Rust in stucco
Scott,
When you mention the "old barrier system", I wonder how often you come across the "new water managed" or "drainable" systems. I know that you are familier with EIFS and wonder what you come across where you are. I do more EIFS inspections than standard home inspections, and I'm sorry to say that I've yet to see a drainable system installed on a residential property.
It amazes me that after all the problems that have been associated with barrier systems, and even with some of the banks refusing financing on homes with barrier systems... years after drainable systems have been introduced, I still don't see them.
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05-03-2008, 06:25 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
Posts: 1,618
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Re: Rust in stucco
Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky
Scott,
When you mention the "old barrier system", I wonder how often you come across the "new water managed" or "drainable" systems. I know that you are familier with EIFS and wonder what you come across where you are. I do more EIFS inspections than standard home inspections, and I'm sorry to say that I've yet to see a drainable system installed on a residential property.
It amazes me that after all the problems that have been associated with barrier systems, and even with some of the banks refusing financing on homes with barrier systems... years after drainable systems have been introduced, I still don't see them.
I seldom see a drainable system and if I do they are installed wrong. They are still leaving out the flashing details and proper sealants around the penetrations.
I have an EIFS inspection on Monday on a new home. Small amount of EIFS on some dormers, under the front porch and I think on a gable over the front door. It is suppose to be a drainable system from what the builder has told me. We shall see. FYI, the only reason they are having an EIFS inspection is that they had the home inspected and their home inspector would not even look at the EIFS, disclaimed it and told them to have a professional EIFS inspection! So now they get to pay me a few hundred dollars for me to spend about thirty minutes at the home and to write a short letter report, because their inspector didn't know about EIFS.
I'm constantly amazed at how many home inspectors disclaim EIFS during a normal inspection, yet they will not say anything when it comes to other types of claddings. Learning about EIFS is not rocket science, you just need to know what to look for and understand that about 95% of all installations are wrong.
Last edited by Scott Patterson : 05-03-2008 at 06:32 AM.
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05-03-2008, 01:02 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KC Metro
Posts: 21
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Re: Rust in stucco
Stucco base cote with acrylic finish!
The Quions and the rest of the trim on the house should have the top sloped instead of flat!
No doubt a moisture problem above.
If they applied the finish before the basecote cured out that could help promote alot of cracking.
If they did the stucco before the sheetrock was hung it would also promote cracking.
Swelling OSB/vertical mulch also promotes cracking.
Hopefully it does not look like some of these under the stucco!
Slide 1
Last edited by carl brown : 05-03-2008 at 01:08 PM.
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05-03-2008, 03:40 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Point Pleasant Pa.
Posts: 7
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Re: Rust in stucco
Could be a number of things or a combination of problems. But it is for sure "Further evaluation by a certified stucco / EIFS inspector". IR would be helpful and could determine extent of moisture behind stucco / in wall, but it will still need to be confirmed with probe moisture meter.
Cracks indicate stucco too thin. (should be 7/8 inch) and / or insufficient drying time between coats.
Stains could be moisture behind stucco rusting the wire lath and bleeding out or OSB tea. (Vertical mulch getting wet causing stains)
Either way moisture should not be behind stucco.
Great forum, great information.
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05-03-2008, 04:47 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mansfield, Texas
Posts: 17
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Re: Rust in stucco
Remember Utah hosted the winter olympics? 2000 or 2002? They built a lot housing in a short time.
I have a friend that is a painter who lives in Ogden. He said that the construction during the time prior to the olympics was huge with a lot of out of state contractors with little knowledge of the effects of the harsh winters in Utah. The city inspectors were overwhelmed /overloaded with work. He said a lot of poor workmanship went un-inspected or not reported.
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05-03-2008, 04:52 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KC Metro
Posts: 21
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Re: Rust in stucco
Was there some of this going on?
Any place you can see yellow/OSB/Vertical mulch in these pictures there is a problem!
After the stucco and or fauxstone is applied how will the inspectors have a clue?
improperprep
These are from the KC Metro!
This one is in Utah!
http://www.mongermusic.com/side-small.jpg |
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05-03-2008, 07:46 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,641
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Re: Rust in stucco
Originally Posted by carl brown
Carl,
Did you notice, on slide 16, where they were pointing out that the lath does not wrap the corner, that the lath on the right side of the corner is turned 90 degrees from horizontal (lath is designed, intended, and required to be installed horizontal, with the right side up too).
Also on slide 18, those two strips being pointed out with the gap between them ... they are installed turned 90 degrees from the horizontal.
Slide 19 shows the entire wall that way, and that's not the reason they posted that photo, they are only pointing it out because of the cracking, not because the stucco could come loose and fall off.
That problem, and other problems which they do not point out, are in many slides.
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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( | | | | |
