What have you guys found are the best ways to tell the difference between hardcoat stucco and EIFS? I have heard that you can find an inconspicuous corner and try and see what is behind the stucco (wire mesh, etc,). There must be a better way and would appreciate your input. Thanks.

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Scott Dana
Dana Home Inspections, Inc.

Take a screwdriver and poke the siding. If the screwdriver pokes a hole in the siding, it's EIFS.
No really.
Tap on siding with the handle,
sounds hollow- EIFS
sounds solid- hardcoat
There are probable beter ways to determine.

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Rick Cantrell
Columbus GA

EIFS can be dented and not hurt to badly (your knuckle, that is).

Trying to dent hard coat stucco is going to be rough, real rough, on your knuckle.

If you use a screw driver instead, with hard coat stucco you will just grind away at it, with EIFS the screw driver will poke right in.

Is that a good way to describe the difference (for you guys and gals who find EIFS)?

Also, with stucco, you can rap the wall and find the studs, with EIFS, I doubt you can.

Talking about hard coat stucco as being 'stucco on frame '.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Some one in the past mentioned try to poke a hole with an awl. If it works they carry a tube of caulking and seal her up.

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Dave

What color of caulk do they carry?

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Rick Cantrell
Columbus GA

I do not remember the post exactly but it is an awl hole. Not a shotgun blast.

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Dave

Still, though, you would be creating a hole in the surface of the structure, not something HIs should go around doing.

I used the screw driver to illustrate 'what the difference would feel like', not 'as something to go around doing'.

Sure, when we probe for rotted (decayed) wood, our probe goes into it, but it *was already* rotted (decayed), meaning that we (the HI) did not damage it. Poking holes in the EIFS of a house will only make an already bad situation worse.

I can just see the complaint come in: "My EIFS inspector told me my house walls were rotted out, and that it looks like some HI went around poking holes in the EIFS with a screw driver or an awl. The damage inside the walls *WOULD NOT BE AS BAD* if not for those holes."

Can you spell 'l-i-a-b-i-l-i-t-y', followed by 'b-i-g t-i-m-e'.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Jerry. What can I say your a master of exaggeration.
My comment mentioned one whole. Where did you get the HI going around poking holes? I would think the Liability would be a lot more if Scott failed to identify the EIFS than one tiny caulked hole. I actually posted the awl thing to get some feedback as around here I have only run across EIFS twice and wondering if this is an option. Obviously you say no.

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Dave

David
Not coming down on you, but why make a hole at all. If there was no other way except to probe with an awl then OK, but it's just not needed.

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Rick Cantrell
Columbus GA

Not needed by you or Jerry who live in Stucco land. But not for people in other parts of the country. Scott asked for a reason. He is not always sure.
EIFS is not something you want to miss identify.

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Dave

"Jerry. What can I say your a master of exaggeration.
My comment mentioned one whole. Where did you get the HI going around poking holes?"

Hmmmm ... did you read *MY* post above?

This is what I said "If you use a screw driver instead, with hard coat stucco you will just grind away at it, with EIFS the screw driver will poke right in."

I did not want, in any way, shape or form, to "imply" that one should go around jabbing a screw driver in to see if it was EIFS - that would NOT BE GOOD.

Got it now? *I* am the one who said what could be taken the wrong way.

"I would think the Liability would be a lot more if Scott failed to identify the EIFS than one tiny caulked hole. I actually posted the awl thing to get some feedback as around here I have only run across EIFS twice and wondering if this is an option. Obviously you say no."

Obviously.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I think that if you went around tapping on it and everyplace sounded 'hollow' and was somewhat 'soft' (as Phillip described), you would recognize EIFS.

If you went around tapping on it and it sounded not-quite-solid, you could tap on it where you know there would be, should be, a back up stud - aligned with a door or a window. There, the not-quite-solid sound would change to a more-like-solid sound. Like tapping on drywall to find a stud. You can typically get close.

If the entire thing sounds solid, then you would have stucco on masonry or concrete.

Another way would be (I think, I have not seen much EIFS at all) to check the bottom edge along the foundation - stucco would end in a weep screed (should anyway) or you would see plywood or OSB (if they did not install the weep screed - the total thickness might be 1/2" for the sheathing and 1/2" for the stucco (I know, it is supposed to be minimum 7/8" for the stucco, but who does that?), whereas EIFS would be much thicker, and soft, and may even have the foam core exposed - EIFS would be that same first 1/2" sheathing, then maybe an inch or more for the foam core insulation, then a thin finish.

Anyone with EIFS experience want to comment on my descriptions, and make them better and more accurate as needed?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I've only seen EIFS on hospitals. As already stated, push on it with your finger/back of pen and it will give. Also tap on it and it has a hallow sound, as already stated..

In the hospital, the EIFS are in large sections that have *control joints* (for lack of a proper term) that are caulked in between which also is a dead giveaway in my opinion.

HTH

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Tim Moreira
Suncoast Home Inspections
Suncoasthomeinspections@yahoo.com

Thanks guys, this turned out to be a very interesting discussion, and a big help. Now if I can just find my hammer drill to check the siding...

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Scott Dana
Dana Home Inspections, Inc.

My first choice is to look at the drip (bottom) edge - A mirror works well for this. Like Jerry said, you can often see the polystyrene (white foam board) and often you will see some plastic mesh ( the color of the mesh may also identify the EIFS system manufacturer) Those are indicative of EIFS. I also may remove the cover from an exterior receptacle. Tapping on the wall surface may give you a clue - I like to make sure. Another clue is that you may find buckets of material (stucco mix) somewhere on the property (garage). The material is usually left to perform repairs when required. The drip edge view usually works for me. Make sure you are looking at the main section of the wall - not the accents/trim areas.

Richard has told Y'all the best way to trying to discover if it is EIFS or Stucco.

Once you see the difference and inspect a few systems it is fairly easy to spot EIFS from the street driving by at 45 mph!

I have been preaching for years that home inspectors should not be scared of EIFS clad homes. If you are inspecting residential construction you should know how to inspect EIFS. It does not take special equipment to see that it is installed improperly. Yes, it does take a good moisture meter to see if you have moisture in the wall. It is no different than inspecting for moisture in the wall of a house that is clad with brick, vinyl, wood, etc. Y'all do check for moisture in all homes under the windows and other penetrations, don't you? I'm dumbfounded at the number of folks who do not check for unseen moisture problems in homes. Moisture problems are the #1 reason that home inspectors are sued.

With a normal home inspection (for a buyer) on a home that has EIFS, you are not performing an in depth EIFS inspection. You will not be probing the walls. You are looking for installation problems. Lack of sealants at penetrations. Lack of or improper flashing (same as any other cladding), and just improper installation. Once you learn what it is suppose to be like, it is no different than inspecting a home with Brick. Brick and Stucco clad homes can have many problems that you can not see, just like EIFS.

IMO, all home inspectors should have a moisture meter like the Tramex Moisture Encounter to scan walls, floors, etc. You will be amazed at what you have been missing once you start using one.

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Remember stucco installed over wood can sound hollow. Look down at the bottom of the wall to see the mesh, EPS panels and draingage if it has one. Take off an outside light and look in to see the same as above. If your not sure drop me a line and will be happy to talk it over. One other thing look for silicone sealant around the windows you should have a half inch joint all around the window. That's EIFS.

I have seen some installations of hard stucco with an outer coating of EIFS such as Pleco or Dryvit. I don't know what to call these, anybody know? I would assume you would have the same issues as with a standard EIFS and usually inspect it as if it is EIFS.

Hybrid?

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002