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Thread: Egress question

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Egress question

    The scenario...

    An addition is put on the side of a home (family room with 2 exits).

    This addition abutts the guest bedroom.

    The means of egress for that bedroom is no longer to the outside of the home but into the addtion...

    Does any code reference state that means of egress is to the exterior of the home?

    This home was built in 77 & the addition was put on in the mid 80's according to the listing agt. No permit I am assuming.

    1. Am I right in calling it out?
    2. What do they do to correct it if it is wrong? There is no other outside wall to install another window.

    Chris

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Egress question

    1: You are correct. It must exit to the outside, which is what exit means.
    2: Don't sleep there. Make it the new office.

    You know in reality what will happen anyhow, but you made the right call to flag it on the report.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  3. #3
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Egress question

    Is there no window from the bedroom???


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Egress question

    If the addition was installed on the side of the house and if the addition covered the existing windows of the sleeping room, aka bedroom, yep... now you have what I would call a store room or bonus room, but not a code complying bedroom.
    So besides creating a safety hazard to occupants what else comes into play?
    Glad you asked, what was a 2, 3 or 4 bedroom home is now one bedroom less. Think this might impact the home's sales value? You bet and guess who will be sued to make up the difference?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  5. #5
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
    Richard Pultar Guest

    Default Re: Egress question

    If there are two remote paths to a means of egress , this room might still be called a bedroom .A sleeping room does not always need a window or door directly communicating with the outdoors. per the old BOCA and now the IRC


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Egress question

    Start here:

    From the 2006 IRC.
    - SECTION R310
    - - EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGS

    - - - R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required. Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening. Such opening shall open directly into a public street, public alley, yard or court. (not posting the rest of that code section as that answers your question right there)


    Then, as WC Jerry said, you are now one bedroom short, that = $$$

    You are also not meeting the required natural light and ventilation requirements.

    What do they do to correct it?

    Make that into one large bedroom suite, with the bedroom in the addition, and the sitting room/office area of the suite in the original bedroom area.

    One less bedroom, but one large suite.

    Or, install a hall to the addition to give access to the bedroom and use the now smaller left over area as storage closet (again, as WC Jerry said).

    No matter how you slice and dice it, it will be like an onion ... it will make one cry.

    Just to name a few issues.





    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Egress question

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stichter View Post
    The scenario... An addition is put on the side of a home (family room with 2 exits). This addition abutts the guest bedroom. The means of egress for that bedroom is no longer to the outside of the home but into the addtion... Does any code reference state that means of egress is to the exterior of the home? This home was built in 77 & the addition was put on in the mid 80's according to the listing agt. No permit I am assuming. 1. Am I right in calling it out? 2. What do they do to correct it if it is wrong? There is no other outside wall to install another window. Chris
    2006 IRC 310.1
    ... shall open into a public street, public alley, yard or court.

    Seems quite clear to me. The specific code reference and wording would be different in the '80s, but would still have had the same requirements.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  8. #8
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
    Richard Pultar Guest

    Default Re: Egress question

    Exception#2 An outside window or exterior door for emergency escape is not required in buildings where the sleeping room is provided with a door to a corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions. BOCA ..There is not enough specific information given to make a call without being there.
    Why even get into the issues of code compliance since it is almost impossible to determine what issue of what code might have been in force by the AJH.
    Some codes sections are modified and some deleted in my state ,so it is not possible to know what was what and when..


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Egress question

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    Exception#2 An outside window or exterior door for emergency escape is not required in buildings where the sleeping room is provided with a door to a corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions. BOCA
    This is what Richard is referring to:

    From the 1997 Standard Building Code (same or similar in other model codes). (underlining is mine)
    - B1005.4 EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGS
    - - B1005.4.1 Where required. Every sleeping room located on the first, second, and third story or within basements of Group R occupancies shall have at least one exterior emergency escape and rescue opening.
    - - - EXCEPTIONS:
    - - - - 1. Buildings equipped with an approved automatic sprinkler system.
    - - - - 2. Sleeping rooms provided with a door to a corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions.
    - - - - 3. The emergency escape and rescue opening may open onto a balcony within an atrium provided the balcony provides access to an exit and the dwelling unit or sleeping room has a means of egress which is not open to the atrium.

    "Sleeping rooms provided with a door to a corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions."

    Something which did not apply to virtually and single family home ever built, and, when used, was thus mis-applied.

    When have you ever seen a single-family home which had a "corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions"? First and foremost, how many corridors had to "exits", let alone in "opposite directions"?

    "Exits"? Yes, one much first understand what the term "exit" means in the code:

    - EXIT. That portion of the means of egress which is separated from all other spaces of a building or structure by construction and opening protectives, as required for exits, to provide a protected way of travel to the exit discharge. Exits include exterior exit doors, separated exit stairs, exit passageways and horizontal exits.

    A "corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions" is not a "hallway which runs from the family room on one end to the living room on the other end". No, an "corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions" an "exit" to outdoors on one end to an "exit" outdoors on the other end.

    That exception is no longer in the code (not in the ICC codes), in large part because it was not needed: no dwelling unit provided a "corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions".

    Thus, bringing that exception up is a "non-issue" as it is "not provided" - if "not provided" the exception cannot be applied.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Egress question

    This problem also occurs when folks build patio enclosures that shut out natural light and ventilation to a sleeping room (bedroom) plus screws-up requirements for emergency exiting and rescue. If there's one term every home inspector should be totally familiar with its "habitability" regarding what is and what is not.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  11. #11
    Wayne Price's Avatar
    Wayne Price Guest

    Default Re: Egress question

    The other thing to mention about corridors, other than it is not applicable in this situation, is that they have more restrictive requirements than just a hallway. Corridors generally have a fire rating of one hour or better.


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