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Thread: plates

  1. #1
    dean whited's Avatar
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    Default plates

    I am framing two non-loading partitions at right angles to each other to make a corner in the basement. One of the plates will be directly under and can be nailed to the floor joist. Can I do this, or will I need another horizontal 2x4 between the top plate and the joist? The other wall will be between and parallel to the above joists. I was considering putting bridge 2x4 s between the joists and nailing the top plate perpendicular to these bridges. Can I do this, and if so, do the studs need to be directly under the bridges (which would be at 16 in. centers)?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by dean whited View Post
    I am framing two non-loading partitions at right angles to each other to make a corner in the basement. One of the plates will be directly under and can be nailed to the floor joist. Can I do this, or will I need another horizontal 2x4 between the top plate and the joist? The other wall will be between and parallel to the above joists. I was considering putting bridge 2x4 s between the joists and nailing the top plate perpendicular to these bridges. Can I do this, and if so, do the studs need to be directly under the bridges (which would be at 16 in. centers)?
    Dean,

    If I am visualizing this correctly, I believe the answer is yes to both, with a qualification.

    Standard wall framing practices generally have a double top plate. This is partly intended to spread the load out over a larger area, but also provides a place to lap so that the wall is tied together at corners and intersections. With a single top plate, it would be necessary to use metal strapping.

    On the wall that is parallel to the joists above, the bridging to anchor the top of the wall will also give you a place to nail-off your gypsum wall board. 16" OC should be enough to provide adequate nailing and since this wall does not support the floor, it should not be necessary to place them directly above the studs. I even think it might be better if you didn't, so any flexing in the joists would be less likely to be transferred down to the slab.

    However, the one thing that I can think of is that this wall will be resting on a 3 1/2 inch thick slab. Even though it is not a support wall, deflection/pressure from the floor above could crack the slab. If I remember correctly, even non-bearing walls are required to have a footing under a slab foundation, albeit a much smaller one than a supporting wall would.

    Please keep in mind that I am not an engineer and my comments are based only on a written description. I have not actually seen the area and there may be factors that I am unaware of.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: plates

    Dean,

    The easiest way to frame that wall and make it suitably strong and easy to install gypsum board (drywall) on it will be to make the wall with a top plate and bottom plated connected together with studs, tip them up into a space between the joists, then slip them under the joists, either parallel with and under, parallel with and between with bridging holding the wall in position, or perpendicular with, the floor joists.

    Then secure the bottom plate to the floor and the top plate into position, either to the joists or to bridging the top plate is under if between floor joists.

    To try to not use top plates will make it quite difficult and time consuming to later up block in the spaces so you will have a nailer for the top of the gypsum board.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: plates

    " I am framing two non-loading partitions at right angles to each other to make a corner in the basement. One of the plates will be directly under and can be nailed to the floor joist. Can I do this,"
    Yes
    or will I need another horizontal 2x4 between the top plate and the joist?"
    No
    The other wall will be between and parallel to the above joists. I was considering putting bridge 2x4 s between the joists and nailing the top plate perpendicular to these bridges. Can I do this,"
    Yes
    " and if so, do the studs need to be directly under the bridges (which would be at 16 in. centers)?"
    No

    Contact you local building dept, they will often give advice.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: plates

    Contact you local building dept, they will often give advice.
    RC: That is true everywhere, but I would not trust the advice given by these wackos in my area. Most could not frame a picture, much less a wall.


  6. #6
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Dean,

    The easiest way to frame that wall and make it suitably strong and easy to install gypsum board (drywall) on it will be to make the wall with a top plate and bottom plated connected together with studs, tip them up into a space between the joists, then slip them under the joists, either parallel with and under, parallel with and between with bridging holding the wall in position, or perpendicular with, the floor joists.

    Then secure the bottom plate to the floor and the top plate into position, either to the joists or to bridging the top plate is under if between floor joists.

    To try to not use top plates will make it quite difficult and time consuming to later up block in the spaces so you will have a nailer for the top of the gypsum board.
    JP: As this is a non-bearing wall, perhaps easier yet would be to frame this with steel studs and plates. Lighter and easier to work with, no noisy saws, no sawdust, no termite worries.


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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    RC: That is true everywhere, but I would not trust the advice given by these wackos in my area. Most could not frame a picture, much less a wall.
    Aaron
    That may be true, however, it is a good place to start.
    They may also refer him to a qualified and competent contractor they know of, that can help him plan.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Dean,

    The easiest way to frame that wall and make it suitably strong and easy to install gypsum board (drywall) on it will be to make the wall with a top plate and bottom plated connected together with studs, tip them up into a space between the joists, then slip them under the joists, either parallel with and under, parallel with and between with bridging holding the wall in position, or perpendicular with, the floor joists.

    Then secure the bottom plate to the floor and the top plate into position, either to the joists or to bridging the top plate is under if between floor joists.
    That's what I thought he was describing.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  9. #9
    David DelVecchio's Avatar
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    Default Re: plates

    I thought this site was devoted to inspections, not giving design advice during construction. Perhaps you should consult with a licensed design professional, so as to avoid being the subject of a future post.

    Any construction official that gives design advice is overstepping their authority, and in my opinion may open themselves up to liability beyond tort claims protection; but you should consult with an attorney for that advice.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by David DelVecchio View Post
    I thought this site was devoted to inspections,
    David,

    If you have been a long time participant or reader, you would know that this site if geared toward, but not strictly devoted to, inspections.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: As this is a non-bearing wall, perhaps easier yet would be to frame this with steel studs and plates. Lighter and easier to work with, no noisy saws, no sawdust, no termite worries.
    Aaron,

    My preference is also metal studs, however ... the metal stud wall still has a top plate (top track) and a bottom plate (bottom track) and studs.

    With metal stud framing I prefer to install a 2x PT plate under the bottom track (to serve as a nailer for the base) and 2x up the jamb studs on each side of each door opening in the jamb stud, with a 2x header in the track used as a header over the door, extending the 2x in the jambs all the way to the top track. That helps take the shake out of the door framing when the door is opened and closed, in addition to the wood around the jambs serving as a nailer for the trim and for attaching the door to.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    David DelVecchio's Avatar
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    Default Re: plates

    Regardless, that shouldn't allow those who are not licensed design professionals to give design advice, and especially without making a personal inspection of the premises.

    Done improperly, these non-bearing walls may take some unintended, and unaccounted, loading and may damage the floor slab without a proper footing or at least a haunch.

    Advice on how to inspect and what to look for is one thing, abetting illegal practice is another.

    I wish the original poster the best of luck with that. It might mean more work for some architect that does forensic investigations.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: plates

    As long as we are giving free advice let me add this. When you build that wall on the floor with top and bottom plates. Be sure to measure from the bottom of the joist to the floor at all points along the line where the wall will set. Not many basement floors are perfect and it will ruin your day when the wall is 1/8" too tall at one end. Leaving a little room for error will also reduce the possibility of pressure damage to the slab, which I think is minimal anyway.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: plates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    As long as we are giving free advice let me add this. When you build that wall on the floor with top and bottom plates. Be sure to measure from the bottom of the joist to the floor at all points along the line where the wall will set. Not many basement floors are perfect and it will ruin your day when the wall is 1/8" too tall at one end. Leaving a little room for error will also reduce the possibility of pressure damage to the slab, which I think is minimal anyway.
    I wish the contractors who pour and finish the concrete basement floor could keep it level within 1/8". The last basement I was consulted for advise about, regarding finished rooms had a floor out of level 1 1/2" in 8 feet. This was a dwelling less then 15 years old.

    Steve Bowman
    Top To Bottom Home and Property Inspections

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