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  1. #1
    daniel nantell's Avatar
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    Default Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Does all bedrooms windows need to have the 20 inch by 24 inch clear opening for proper egress. I see a lot of casement windows that would not qualify for the 5.7 sq ft. opening. thanks

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Need at least one window meeting the requirements. You can have fixed or other none qualifying windows but at least one in each bedroom must meet the net clear opening requirement.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel nantell View Post
    Does all bedrooms windows need to have the 20 inch by 24 inch clear opening for proper egress. I see a lot of casement windows that would not qualify for the 5.7 sq ft. opening. thanks
    Me too. It was a bit of a shock.

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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel nantell View Post
    Does all bedrooms windows need to have the 20 inch by 24 inch clear opening for proper egress. I see a lot of casement windows that would not qualify for the 5.7 sq ft. opening. thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Need at least one window meeting the requirements. You can have fixed or other none qualifying windows but at least one in each bedroom must meet the net clear opening requirement.

    I would always explain it to my clients this way: Your child is in the bedroom and there is a fire, so he/she goes to the window, only IT IS THE WRONG WINDOW ... how many precious and needed seconds do you think they just lost toward getting out of there alive?

    Or.

    The firefighters put their ladder up to the window to rescue your child from the fire, only IT IS THE WRONG WINDOW and they can't get in ... how many precious and needed seconds do you think they just lost toward getting your child out of there alive?

    Not pretty when you think about it.

    Code is MINIMUM ... only ONE complying window is *required*, but that does not mean the room is now safe for use.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Jerry, I'm surprised you didn't jump on the "20 inch by 24 inch clear opening" thingy.

    20x24 does NOT equal 5.7 sq. ft.

    20 is the minimum width.
    24 is the minimum height

    but 20x24 does NOT equal 5.7 sq.ft.

    but then there's the exception for grade floor openings minimum of 5.0 sq.ft.

    20x24 = 480 square inches
    5.0 = 720 square inches
    5.7 = 820.8 square inches

    The window has to be bigger than 20x24 to meet EERO.

    -

    Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY - Read my Blog here: Erby the Central Kentucky Home Inspector B4 U Close Home Inspections www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    If there is another 2nd means of egress such as a DOOR to a balcony, deck, stairway landing, fire escape stair/ladder, etc. then the secondary means doesn't have to be a singluar escape WINDOW (but there still needs to be natural ventillation/natural light provisions and or via exceptions, met in total for the bedroom).

    Window 2nd means of egress also has to meet height from the floor provisions (or exceptions).

    One more thing, some egress windows actually have a second operation, whereby the entire window frame which contains the "window" is hinged and opens/swings so the escape opening is larger than the everyday operable openings. I have seen this in both double hungs, single hungs and casements (with or without fixed lights) awning & hopper windows (again with or without fixed lights included) - either appearing mullioned or with fixed, set in a frame which the entire frame containing the whole glazed area was hinged and set in the installed to the opening frame and operable for egress. It can be VERY EASY TO MISS if you don't look behind window dressings (drapes, etc) and visualize the entirety of the window/trim perimeter or "look" for the release handle as some units have hidden (when closed and esp when viewing from interior) hinge systems.

    If the bedroom is part of a continuous set that includes a windowed closet, sitting area, or bathroom such as a master bedroom suite - the "escape" window 2nd means of egress MAY be in those contiguous rooms.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 01-09-2010 at 08:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Erby Crofutt View Post
    Jerry, I'm surprised you didn't jump on the "20 inch by 24 inch clear opening" thingy.
    Erby,

    Because I (erroneously) interpreted that "20 inch by 24 inch" as meaning the minimum dimensions are 20 inches and 24 inches, but ... ... that was not what was said.

    I've pointed out just what you have on many occasions - that a minimum height of 24 inches and a minimum width of 20 inches does not equal the minimum opening size of 5.7 square feet. That a window with a 24 inch opening height needs to be at least 34.2 inches wide for the opening. Likewise, a window which meets the minimum width of 20 inches must be at least 41.04 inches high for the opening.

    Another thing I have frequently pointed out when the size of EERO windows is discussed is the exception which allows an opening size reduction to 5.0 square feet - that is only allowed when BOTH the interior floor-to-sill (bottom of opening) height is less than 44 inches AND the exterior grade-to-sill (bottom of opening) height is less than 44 inches. Which means that if the interior sill height is 44 inches and the interior floor is above ground outside, then the opening is not allowed to be reduced down to 5.0 square feet as the opening sill height outside exceeds the maximum height of 44 inches. The height is for two reasons and for two directions: 1) for escape as measured from the inside; 2) for rescue as measured from the outside.

    The latter one, for rescue from the outside, is the one which is overlooked the most often. Thinking of it this way makes it easier to remember: A firefighter standing on the ground outside, with full gear and SCBA, trying to climb into the open window ... if the opening is greater than 44 inches above outside grade, the firefighter will likely need to get a ladder, and that ladder takes up precious window opening space, thus the opening needs the full 5.7 square feet minimum.

    If you are outside and the bottom of the opening is greater than 44 inches above ground ... it does not matter if the bottom of the opening is at interior floor level - the opening size needs to be 5.7 square feet minimum.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    One more thing, some egress windows actually have a second operation, whereby the entire window frame which contains the "window" is hinged and opens/swings so the escape opening is larger than the everyday operable openings. I have seen this in both double hungs, single hungs and casements (with or without fixed lights) awning & hopper windows (again with or without fixed lights included) - either appearing mullioned or with fixed, set in a frame which the entire frame containing the whole glazed area was hinged and set in the installed to the opening frame and operable for egress. It can be VERY EASY TO MISS if you don't look behind window dressings (drapes, etc) and visualize the entirety of the window/trim perimeter or "look" for the release handle as some units have hidden (when closed and esp when viewing from interior) hinge systems.
    "It can be VERY EASY TO MISS if you don't look behind window dressings (drapes, etc) and visualize the entirety of the window/trim perimeter or "look" for the release handle as some units have hidden (when closed and esp when viewing from interior) hinge systems."

    Which is why some AHJ *do not allow* those windows to be used for EERO.

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining and bold are mine)
    - R310.1.4 Operational constraints. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge.

    If the bedroom is part of a continuous set that includes a windowed closet, sitting area, or bathroom such as a master bedroom suite - the "escape" window 2nd means of egress MAY be in those contiguous rooms.

    Basically, no to the above, however, if "sitting area" is removed from the above, then basically yes to the above.

    - R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required. Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening. Such opening shall open directly into a public street, public alley, yard or court. Where (blah, blah, blah as this section continues) ...

    "every sleeping room", not "or adjoining bathroom" and not "or adjoining closet", but "every" "sleeping room".

    I say "basically yes" if "sitting area" was removed from that statement because the "sitting area" is usually part of the sleeping room with no separating walls and doors. Yes, I have seen a few master suites where the sitting areas - more than one sitting area *in* the master suite - were separated by walls and doors and in those cases the answer it that windows in those areas do not count toward EERO either - the EERO must be directly IN the "sleeping room".


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  9. #9
    Mark Tran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    This is a very interesting thread, but I just want to jump in and ask when we're talking about window openings people seem to over look at windows sill 24" above grade.

    The code in BC requires
    If door sill is above 600mm/2 the floor or other constructed surface or ground level, it shall be protected by a guard or prevent a maximum opening of the door to 100mm/4
    So my question is, does this apply to your area?

    Cheers,


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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    I'm not sure what you are asking about, but I think the answer in my area is no. Is this referring to a guard rail to prevent someone from falling out of a window? Or, to limit the opening size so someone will not fall out?

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  11. #11
    Mark Tran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    What I mean is, I've seen so many windows on the second story, the sill is under 24" in height but yet they install a windows that is open able more than 4". What about the kids that are gonna play near these windows, they could easily clime out so that's my question.


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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    The old South Florida Building Code, both the Miami-Dade County Edition and the Broward County Edition, addressed that specifically.

    The new Florida Building Code, Residential, along with the IRC addresses that in a more vague manner, which I have pointed out on previous occasions:
    - From the IRC. (underlining and bold are mine)
    - - R312.1 Guards. Porches, balconies, ramps or raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in height. Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads.
    - - - Porches and decks which are enclosed with insect screening shall be equipped with guards where the walking surface is located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below.

    Now, when you have a window, which is open, and the sill height is less than 36" high, and the ground below is over 30" below the interior floor level ... what do you have?


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post

    Now, when you have a window, which is open, and the sill height is less than 36" high, and the ground below is over 30" below the interior floor level ... what do you have?
    Fresh air?

    Are you saying what I think you are saying? That a guard rail is required.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    Are you saying what I think you are saying? That a guard rail is required.

    Well ... you have a floor area which is greater than 30 inches above the "floor or grade below", you no longer have a "wall" there, you now have an "opening in that wall" (window is open) ... what do you think is needed at that "opening"?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  15. #15
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Well ... you have a floor area which is greater than 30 inches above the "floor or grade below", you no longer have a "wall" there, you now have an "opening in that wall" (window is open) ... what do you think is needed at that "opening"?
    OK, I'll play along .

    Would this apply to only egress widows, or all windows?


  16. #16
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Is this where you are going on windows safety
    see attached


  17. #17
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacey Van Houtan View Post
    Is this where you are going on windows safety
    see attached
    Attached what?


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    OK, I'll play along .

    Would this apply to only egress widows, or all windows?

    "only egress widows or all windows?"

    How about "all openings in the wall" ... REGARDLESS of what you call those openings ... whether "windows", "egress windows", "non-egress windows", "doors", or ... "holes or openings in the wall".

    By the way, yes, I did catch the "egress widows" part but presumed that also applied to "egress widowers" too.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
    Stacey Van Houtan Guest

    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Sorry i am on dial up today
    this has other info but the window info there

    Attached Files Attached Files

  20. #20
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Jerry,
    Is this what you referring to, or are you saying all windows.

    From Stacey's link....

    To reduce the number of falls
    through windows for small children
    the 2006 IRC requires that any
    window where the opening part of
    the window is more than 6' above
    the finished grade the lowest part of
    the opening must be a minimum of
    2' above the finished floor of the
    room. The 2006 code allows the
    window if it only opens to where a 4
    ball will not pass through the
    opening. Or, a special window guard
    must be installed up to the 2' level.

    If a window does not meet egress, by code it is a window that you can't get out of so you would not need a guard rail, right.



  21. #21
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    If a window does not meet egress, by code it is a window that you can't get out of so you would not need a guard rail, right.
    Quite an incorrect statement you made there.

    If a window does not meet egress, by code it is a window ... which you CAN get out of ... just not GET INTO (or out of) in a way which meets code - which in no way is implying that it is "a window you can't get out of".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  22. #22
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quite an incorrect statement you made there.
    Well I guess I will put this one under the, you are technically right, but is never enforced category.

    I'll take my chances, I'm not going to start adding guardrails at every window that meets that criteria.

    I just hope that if I end up in court over it, it is not in an Ormond Beach court room .


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Re; window opening in bedroom above ground

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    I just hope that if I end up in court over it, it is not in an Ormond Beach court room .
    I travel.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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