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Thread: Egress windows

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Egress windows

    I inspected a house built in 1959 today. The windows have been recently replaced but do not meet current size requirements for 2nd means of egress . Can a window size be grandfathered or should they have been updated to todays standards when they were replaced?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    I run into that quite often.

    The replacement window, if of the same size as the original, is allowed to not meet the egress requirements if the window being removed did not meet the egress requirements - the new window is not allowed to make the condition 'worse' that is was.

    At least that is the way it is done all over Florida and everywhere else I know of.

    Now, if ... *IF* ... that big *IF* ... the old window opening size was large enough to allow for a new window to be installed which does meet the requirements, then the new window will need to meet the requirements. For example, if an awning window were removed (no awning window meets the requirements) then it is allowed to be replaced with a single hung, double hung, casement, or awning-mounted-in-a-casement which has an opening which does meet the requirements.

    If that were not allowed, installing new windows would require major structural alterations, some of which may not be allowed to be done without MAJOR structural work to accommodate the larger window.

    Yes, *I* would like to see manufacturers make their single hung, double hung, or sliders in a casement frame which does allow for the entire window to swing out and provide that full size opening, and in that case - if there were enough choices - then most definitely go with a window which meet EERO requirements. However, the only window I am aware of which was made that way 'was' (and may no longer even 'be' made that way) ... was the awning-mounted-in-a-casement.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: Egress windows

    Window replacement ain't what it used to be. Years ago when you replaced a window you replaced everything, sashes, frame, brick mold and interior trim.

    What we use to call a sash kit in a frame is now a replacement window, where you remove the sash and tracks and install the replacement window in the existing frame.

    All of that to say this, here in the city (county is different) if you replace the window, frame and all, then it has to meet current codes. If use the existing frame then you are not technically changing the window so it does not have to meet the current requirements.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    Thanks for the info guys. I called it out as a safety hazard because there is no secondary means of egress.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    Window replacement ain't what it used to be.
    It is down here.

    All of that to say this, here in the city (county is different) if you replace the window, frame and all, then it has to meet current codes.

    That is what is replaced down here - the ENTIRE window ... to the rough opening ... then a COMPLETE new window is installed in that rough opening, with 1/4" maximum shim thickness ... so EACH window is custom made to EACH opening, and all of this is done as "standard" windows.

    That is because, down here in Florida, windows have to meet minimum required wind pressure and water entry resistance requirements, and the only way to do that is by replacing the complete window as an assembly.

    You guys in other states may do it piece meal, but here a "window replacement" is a "window replacement" as complete units.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Jonathan Cartwright's Avatar
    Jonathan Cartwright Guest

    Default Re: Egress windows

    What is an "awning mounted in a casement" window?


  7. #7
    Philip's Avatar
    Philip Guest

    Question Re: Egress windows

    Just about all (I say just about all to CMA) vinyl replacement windows diminish the actual egress. What is going to happen in FL where you remove everything with the new LEAD Paint law.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Cartwright View Post
    What is an "awning mounted in a casement" window?

    Jonathan,

    That is a complete awning window, frame and all, mounted in a casement window frame and mounted so the entire awning window swings open on one side, which now leaves the entire window opening of the casement frame "open" for egress or rescue. Think of it as a casement window where the casement sash which swings open is a complete awning window, complete with the operator, everything, you can swing the awning window open and open then open and close the awning windows as though it were still 'mounted in the wall'.

    Really pretty cool.

    Except I'm not sure they are still being made - but think of the possibilities for replacement windows where full EERO size is needed ... install a complete double or single hung window in a casement frame (yes, all would need to be designed together as a window unit), then you have a single or double hung window installed, except that it does not meet EERO size - until you slide a lever and the entire single or double hung window swings on out on hinges, leaving the entire large opening as the EERO.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Philip's Avatar
    Philip Guest

    Question Re: Egress windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Jonathan,

    That is a complete awning window, frame and all, mounted in a casement window frame and mounted so the entire awning window swings open on one side, which now leaves the entire window opening of the casement frame "open" for egress or rescue. Think of it as a casement window where the casement sash which swings open is a complete awning window, complete with the operator, everything, you can swing the awning window open and open then open and close the awning windows as though it were still 'mounted in the wall'.

    Really pretty cool.

    Except I'm not sure they are still being made - but think of the possibilities for replacement windows where full EERO size is needed ... install a complete double or single hung window in a casement frame (yes, all would need to be designed together as a window unit), then you have a single or double hung window installed, except that it does not meet EERO size - until you slide a lever and the entire single or double hung window swings on out on hinges, leaving the entire large opening as the EERO.
    Would that be a window that operated like a functual shutter. The kind of window the French woman closed when the shelling started in "The Longest Day."


  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    Ah ... I think I understand your question now ...

    This shows some "awning" windows: Aluminum Awning Windows and Doors | Victor Sun Control of Philadelphia

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    erika krieger's Avatar
    erika krieger Guest

    Default Re: Egress windows

    Anto Glass Block Co. makes a double hung that also opens like a casement, altho inward; useful in basement applications.
    antoEGRESSwindow.jpg

    Appendix J of the IRC states:
    AJ401.2 Door and window dimensions.
    Minor reductions in the clear opening dimensions of replacement doors and windows that result from the use of different materials shall be allowed, whether or not they are permitted by this code.
    Commentary❖
    During many renovation projects, it is common for existing doors and windows to be removed and replaced. Quite often the new doors and windows are of different materials and do not provide the same clear opening dimensions as the originals. Reductions in opening dimensions beyond those allowed by the code are permitted provided they are minor in nature. While not specifically defined, a minor reduction would remain consistent with the intent and purpose of the provisions.




  12. #12
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Egress windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Yes, *I* would like to see manufacturers make their single hung, double hung, or sliders in a casement frame which does allow for the entire window to swing out and provide that full size opening, and in that case - if there were enough choices - then most definitely go with a window which meet EERO requirements. However, the only window I am aware of which was made that way 'was' (and may no longer even 'be' made that way) ... was the awning-mounted-in-a-casement.
    There are manufacturers who produce single hung (top glazing fixed lower operable sash) and double hung units as well as hopper style, which are mounted in an overall casement type hinged operable frame in-frame which then open and afford EERO, usually with a simple handle latch which requires no special knowledge or equipment not unlike a door handle/latch. Examples of such mfg's and links have been previously posted on similar threads in this forum.


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