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  1. #1
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    Default Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Is the paper facing on fiberglass insulation allowed to be exposed on the interior walls of a detached, unheated garage?

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Is the paper facing on fiberglass insulation allowed to be exposed ...

    No.

    That is an all encompassing "No.".

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Every paper faced insulation I've ever seen has virtually the same warning. It's tough to find on older stuff because it's dirty and torn but it's there somewhere.

    It should just say in big letters "If you can read this it's WRONG"


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    If there is living space above that garage, the bearing walls need to have the same fire rating/separation as the ceiling.

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    I just want to verify: There is absolutely NO residential application in which standard (i.e. non-fire retardant) exposed paper facing is allowed - this has nothing to do with "accessible", "habitable", "interior/exterior", etc. - anyplace such exposed paper faced insulation is visible, it's incorrect? This is a 100% no-exception prohibition?

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    I just want to verify: There is absolutely NO residential application in which standard (i.e. non-fire retardant) exposed paper facing is allowed - this has nothing to do with "accessible", "habitable", "interior/exterior", etc. - anyplace such exposed paper faced insulation is visible, it's incorrect? This is a 100% no-exception prohibition?
    It is even printed on the Kraft paper that this side will burn and must be covered with drywall or other approved covering. If you can see the Kraft paper and or read the print on the insulation it is wrong 100% of the time.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    I just want to verify: There is absolutely NO residential application in which standard (i.e. non-fire retardant) exposed paper facing is allowed - this has nothing to do with "accessible", "habitable", "interior/exterior", etc. - anyplace such exposed paper faced insulation is visible, it's incorrect? This is a 100% no-exception prohibition?

    This is a typical warning on the facing (see attached photo):

    "Warning: This facing will burn. Do not leave exposed. Cover with approved building material in contact with facing." (then more follows)

    Some will say to the effect of "Facing must be installed in substantial contact with gypsum board or other approved building material.)

    Regardless, the answer is "The facing is not to be left exposed." As Scott said, if you can see it, it is wrong. I have not seen anything which allows for anything else (i.e., nothing which allows for the facing - paper or foil - to be left exposed) under any conditions.

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Thanks to you both.

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    So, other than am approved finish material or replacement with FS-25 insulation, are there any other options to remediate exposed paper facing?

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Also, are the seams of gypsum board used to cover the facing required to be taped?

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    They should be taped to prevent airflow through the seams which would slow down a fire from spreading.


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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe S View Post
    They should be taped to prevent airflow through the seams which would slow down a fire from spreading.
    Best practice, or code requirement (as for example at gypsum board installed on roof undersides common walls for fire separation)?

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    are there any other options to remediate exposed paper facing?
    Burn it off.

    Since this is in an un-heated garage, I'm curious as to whether the paper side can just be turned towards the wall sheathing so that it is not exposed. I can't imagine that it would hurt anything.


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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    So, other than am approved finish material or replacement with FS-25 insulation, are there any other options to remediate exposed paper facing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Also, are the seams of gypsum board used to cover the facing required to be taped?

    The approved finish material you are referring to is gypsum board, and, no, the joints do not need to be taped.

    The intent is to place the facing in substantial contact with the gypsum board to slow, limit, or stop the spread of fire.

    I say the joints do not need to be taped as those are apparently not walls which need to be fire protected, otherwise THAT would be the problem, not the exposed facing, and resolving that fire protection problem would also resolve the other exposed facing problem - and - joints which land on the studs do not need to be taped for that purpose anyway (unless that is truly supposed to be a fire-resistance rated wall, and it if was ... the entire thing was done wrong anyway.

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Thanks.

    Michael Thomas
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    What's the purpose then of the insulation (I mean if it's unheated)? Just remove it.

    I wouldn't turn it around because in the future someone might finish it and add a plastic vapor barrier on the studs thinking there was none to begin with. That would create a sandwich and nowhere for moisture to escape to.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe S View Post
    What's the purpose then of the insulation (I mean if it's unheated)? Just remove it.
    It's only unheated on one side......the garage side.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    You said it was a "detached" garage. What exactly did you mean by that? I take it to mean it is not attached to anything.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe S View Post
    You said it was a "detached" garage. What exactly did you mean by that? I take it to mean it is not attached to anything.
    In my Midwestern City, a parking structure whose exterior walls are surrounded by open space, located more than five feet from any permanent structure.

    In California, I suppose it might mean a garage indifferent to or remote from the concerns of other garages - an aloof garage, insulated from and unable to properly face the concerns of other garages.

    In Brooklyn, I don't know.

    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 07-03-2010 at 09:54 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe S View Post
    You said it was a "detached" garage.
    I missed the "detached" part, so disregard my previous post, I'm not sure but I think this is the first time I have missed something on this forum.....today.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    I missed the "detached" part, so disregard my previous post, I'm not sure but I think this is the first time I have missed something on this forum.....today.
    Oops. I thought you were the original poster.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    detached, unheated garage?

    Why insulate a garage, detached or not?

    To keep it cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. Make a lot of sense to me.

    Why do you think them make insulated garage doors?

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    OK, have I got this right?

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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    OK, have I got this right?
    I would re-word it more like this:

    - A. Leaving the paper and/or foil facing of insulation exposed is prohibited by International Residential Code (IRC), which is the most common building code adopted and used in the United States for one and two family dwellings and townhouses. 1


    1 The relevant section of the IRC is R316.1:

    R316.1 Insulation. Insulation materials, including facings, such as vapor retarders or vapor permeable membranes installed within floor-ceiling assemblies, roof-ceiling assemblies, wall assemblies, crawl spaces and attics shall have a flame-spread index not to exceed 25 with an accompanying smoke-developed index not to exceed 450 when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84.
    Since the standard paper and/or foil facing of insulation does not meet these standards, the insulation is not allowed to be installed with the facing left exposed. Additionally, the insulation is required to be installed in accordance with the installation instructions from the manufacturer, these instruction state (refer to the labeling on the insulation in the photo) "Warning: This facing will burn. Do not leave exposed. Cover with approved building material in contact with the facing." or similar wording, depending on the manufacturer of the insulation.


    I did not read through the rest of the text.





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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Thanks for your suggestions, both are improvements.

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Jerry,

    Thanks for your suggestions, both are substantial improvements - not surprising as you have likely reviewed a lot more such technical writing - good and bad - than I have.

    Anyone else?

    I'd especially like to improve the discussion of the situation with reversed vapor retarders as I frequently encounter this in combination with exposed facings.

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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Jerry,

    Thanks for your suggestions, both are substantial improvements - not surprising as you have likely reviewed a lot more such technical writing - good and bad - than I have.

    Anyone else?

    I'd especially like to improve the discussion of the situation with reversed vapor retarders as I frequently encounter this in combination with exposed facings.
    The vapor barrier should be on the "warm in winter side". Is that what you were asking?


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    I like the "warm in winter" terminology.

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Exposed paper facing in detached garage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    I like the "warm in winter" terminology.
    Good, because that is what the code uses too.

    - N1102.5 Moisture control. The building design shall not create conditions of accelerated deterioration from moisture condensation. Above-grade frame walls, floors and ceilings not ventilated to allow moisture to escape shall be provided with an approved vapor retarder. The vapor retarder shall be installed on the warm-in-winter side of the thermal insulation.
    - - Exceptions:
    - - - 1. In construction where moisture or its freezing will not damage the materials.
    - - - 2. Frame walls, floors and ceilings in jurisdictions in Zones 1, 2, 3, 4A, and 4B. (Crawl space floor vapor retarders are not exempted.)
    - - - 3. Where other approved means to avoid condensation are provided.


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