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  1. #1
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    Default Framing on Double Top Plate

    I saw this at a pre-drywall inspection. The pictures show the framing of the bearing wall between the living room and dining room. The wall is providing end bearing support for the dimension lumber ceiling joists at the mid point of the 1st floor. The double top plate on this wall is not continous and is done with what I can only describe as doubled 2x4 blocks.

    I've never seen any wall framed this way and it just doesn't look right. While some of the joist ends appear to bear directly over the wall stud, some of the locations have one or more joist ends that do not and are offset. It looks too much like a teeter totter for my liking. Is it unreasonable to say in a worst case scenario that the joist ends could rotate the doubled 2x4 blocks off the studs? Some of the wall studs appeared bowed.

    It really looks wrong to me. In particular, look at the bottom plate above the middle wall stud in the 3rd pic. They used two pieces of lumber and the smaller piece on the right is only about 3-4 inches long and the two bottom plate pieces each have less than 1 inch of bearing surface on top of the wall stud.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Really weird. It's not even really a top plate, as the cross pieces are between the verticals rather than on top of them. I can't even see how that saved any time or material. Do the plans call for a double top plate, or don't they mention that detail on the interior wall.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    It looks like the double plate that was there has been cut away in two places to accommodate duct work or plumbing. It definitely needs repair, and the tradesman or boy who did that should get a slap to the head.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    It looks like the double plate that was there has been cut away in two places to accommodate duct work or plumbing. It definitely needs repair, and the tradesman or boy who did that should get a slap to the head.

    Looks like the cuts were made prior to the install; in any event very wrong.

    Needs to be corrected.

    We know why you fly: because the bus is too expensive and the railroad has a dress code...
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    Really weird. It's not even really a top plate, as the cross pieces are between the verticals rather than on top of them. I can't even see how that saved any time or material. Do the plans call for a double top plate, or don't they mention that detail on the interior wall.
    Looks to me like they saved at least 20 linear inches of material!


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    It does no make much sense to cut those sections out. From what I can see the loads from the ends of the joist are being transferred to just a single 2x4.

    I would call it out as in need of additional framing to properly transfer and support the load from the ends of those joist. Most likely that detail was not specced in the plans.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Issues abound beyond.

    I wouldn't touch with an 8-foot-plus pole, nothing is right or safe here.

    Tension, osb web and fasteners are what is holding up. This isn't even a satisfactory temporary brace or support for anything. All photos display "F" (even fore & background) and the AHJ should be notified immediately so can shut down.

    What are you doing (or trying to do, e.g. your purpose) there?

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 07-10-2010 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Issues abound beyond.

    I wouldn't touch with an 8-foot-plus pole, nothing is right or safe here.

    Tension, osb web and fasteners are what is holding up. This isn't even a satisfactory temporary brace or support for anything. All photos display "F" (even fore & background) and the AHJ should be notified immediately so can shut down.

    What are you doing (or trying to do, e.g. your purpose) there?
    Ummmmmm.......pre-drywall inspection?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Ummmmmm.......pre-drywall inspection?
    DUH.

    FOR WHAT PURPOSE and HOW ARE YOU QUALIFIED to be performing a pre-drywall inspection?

    Cripes!

    Are you there to report or verify for your client (buyer, owner, builder, owner acting as own GC, construction loan/bank, etc.) a condition warranting a progress payment?

    Are you functioning as an AHJ?

    Frankly if you cant identify what is wrong in those photos you shouldn't be doing a pre-drywall inspection.

    No one has any business installing ANY drywall ANYWHERE seen in those pictures.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Ladies and gentlemen, that was H.G. Watson Sr. for your enjoyment. Give him a big round of applause.

    For his next act, he's going to pull his head out of his ass and try to act like a normal person who can respond like a rational human being and doesn't expect people to read his mind. Stay tuned, it should be good.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, that was H.G. Watson Sr. for your enjoyment. Give him a big round of applause.

    For his next act, he's going to pull his head out of his ass and try to act like a normal person who can respond like a rational human being and doesn't expect people to read his mind. Stay tuned, it should be good.
    Nothing that an Rx of Lexapro won't cure!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by James Risley View Post
    Looks like one possibility is that the double plates were cut out in order to lift the sister joists into position and the blocks were then added to tie the wall back together.
    JR
    You got it, James. The joists are sistered in the last two pics. They may have had trouble getting the floor upstairs level, so they cut the plate and jammed sisters in.

    There's no way anybody would build that from scratch, even if it was a tree fort.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    And that was HGs lovely assistant AD Miller boys and girls. He always livens up a room with his bubbly personality and youthful exuberance.

    Seems to me that I did not miss the issue as I took plenty of pics of the framing and literally stopped in my tracks when I saw it. But I appreciate your candid thoughts. I can always count on you two guys to flex your keyboard muscles and send jabs and pokes from afar.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Frankly if you cant identify what is wrong in those photos you shouldn't be doing a pre-drywall inspection.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    I have to agree with HG on this. If you have to ask if the framing in those photos is acceptable, you have no business whatsoever performing pre-drywall inspections.
    Nick,

    Don't be too hard on them, they are just having: a) memory problems from what they read in your original post, or, b) reading and comprehension problems from what they did remember they read in your original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    I've never seen any wall framed this way and it just doesn't look right.

    It looks too much like a teeter totter for my liking.

    Is it unreasonable to say in a worst case scenario that the joist ends could rotate the doubled 2x4 blocks off the studs? Some of the wall studs appeared bowed.

    It really looks wrong to me.

    It really looks wrong to me too, looks too much like a teeter totter for my liking too, it is not unreasonable to contemplate those rotating and falling over, and I too have never seen any wall framed this way, and it certainly just doesn't look right ... and you two guys are DISAGREEING with those assessments?

    If you are, you two guys need to look real hard in the mirror and see what is missing, maybe a brain or two (presuming there is supposed to be two brains between the two of you based on your responses).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    J.P.,Your (predictable and) obvious myopic tunnel vision and conceptual understanding, or rather failure to understand, notwithstanding.There is no failure on this end. As usual, you miss the forest for the tree; heck Peck, you missed everything beyond a single tree.Obvious not your area either.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Issues abound beyond.

    I wouldn't touch with an 8-foot-plus pole, nothing is right or safe here.

    Tension, osb web and fasteners are what is holding up. This isn't even a satisfactory temporary brace or support for anything. All photos display "F" (even fore & background) and the AHJ should be notified immediately so can shut down.

    What are you doing (or trying to do, e.g. your purpose) there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Ummmmmm.......pre-drywall inspection?
    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    DUH.

    FOR WHAT PURPOSE and HOW ARE YOU QUALIFIED to be performing a pre-drywall inspection?

    Cripes!

    Are you there to report or verify for your client (buyer, owner, builder, owner acting as own GC, construction loan/bank, etc.) a condition warranting a progress payment?

    Are you functioning as an AHJ?

    Frankly if you cant identify what is wrong in those photos you shouldn't be doing a pre-drywall inspection.

    No one has any business installing ANY drywall ANYWHERE seen in those pictures.
    I in NO WAY endorsed anything displayed in those six photos. I do question and dispute N.O.'s ability to properly identify and describe what the HOST OF ISSUES ARE. "Something" is JUST NOT RIGHT?!!??? How about nothing is right and not just the s/b bearing partion wall.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    You got it, James. The joists are sistered in the last two pics. They may have had trouble getting the floor upstairs level, so they cut the plate and jammed sisters in.

    There's no way anybody would build that from scratch, even if it was a tree fort.

    Couldn't AGREE more with this statement! Clearly what has happend and whomever did this should be placed in front of the fireing line!!!


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Post a thread looking for feedback and get accused of incompetence. Yep, sounds about right.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    I suspect N.O. thinks what he's identified are the only problems (and that they are exclusively those of the bearing partition wall!


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Irrational thought processes and wild assumptions are what I've come to expect so you didn't disappoint.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Post a thread looking for feedback and get accused of incompetence. Yep, sounds about right.
    Shoe fits, wear it.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Here's the thing HG........or whoever you are. I never claimed to know everything and I wouldn't be so pompous as to try and belittle somebody for posting up something in an attempt to get more information about something they haven't seen before. That obviously is not your M.O. but I'm digressing.

    You've now stated at least three separate times that there are more issues present in the pics that I have not mentioned and which you assume I am not aware. Yet, you continue to be evasive and do not identify or state the issues which have you so aghast. Why is this?

    I'm not the only person who uses this board as a professional resource but you treat it like it is some game for you. If you actually have something useful to pass along, you have the opportunity to do so. Or......you can continue to play your little mind games and erode your credibility.

    If anybody else sees anything in the pics that they see as an issue aside from the bearing wall framing, please chime in. I come on here to share and learn. But I unfortunately ended up tangled in a pissing match with guys who would rather flex their keyboard muscles than actually be helpful.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    They have the sub-floor in upside down. The writing goes up. I'm surprised you did not catch that!


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    You got it, James. The joists are sistered in the last two pics. They may have had trouble getting the floor upstairs level, so they cut the plate and jammed sisters in.

    There's no way anybody would build that from scratch, even if it was a tree fort.
    I don't understand how come they couldn't just sister from upstairs? If they already laid down the subfloor, it still would have been easier to remove the subfloor and level from upstairs. No?

    I agree Nick. HG is way out of line and down right insulting. By reading some of his posts over the last few weeks, he seems knowledgable, but needs to get the chip off his shoulder.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Nobody takes HG seriously, he or she is always good for a few laughs. It is hard to believe that folks talk and have that type of thought pattern nowadays.

    Now if HG ever did come out of the closet and provide a real identity then their opine might be taken with more than a grain of salt.

    When folks post a question or ask for more opinions, I don't know of anyone who post on this board that has the right or knowledge to question any one's ability if you don't know them on a personal level. It is a glass house so look before you toss that stone, especially if you are hiding behind a false identity.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    I have my suspicions as to who HG is. There was another HI that used to be on here a few years back (from Michigan) who was quite frequently ruffling feathers and then disappeared. I suspect it to be GM but I could be wrong.


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    I saw this at a pre-drywall inspection. The pictures show the framing of the bearing wall between the living room and dining room. The wall is providing end bearing support for the dimension lumber ceiling joists at the mid point of the 1st floor. The double top plate on this wall is not continous and is done with what I can only describe as doubled 2x4 blocks.

    I've never seen any wall framed this way and it just doesn't look right. While some of the joist ends appear to bear directly over the wall stud, some of the locations have one or more joist ends that do not and are offset. It looks too much like a teeter totter for my liking. Is it unreasonable to say in a worst case scenario that the joist ends could rotate the doubled 2x4 blocks off the studs? Some of the wall studs appeared bowed.

    It really looks wrong to me. In particular, look at the bottom plate above the middle wall stud in the 3rd pic. They used two pieces of lumber and the smaller piece on the right is only about 3-4 inches long and the two bottom plate pieces each have less than 1 inch of bearing surface on top of the wall stud.

    Thoughts?
    Whatever the reason for the top plates being cut out it needs to be fixed. The bearing over the stud is correct, always add a stud at any joint in the lower top plates. It is not a fix to add a block between studs when top plates are cut away. Also is the framing up against the masonry wall, it needs to have treated lumber against any masonry.
    You said this was pre drywall inspection? what about tie downs, hold downs, straps, hurricane clips, I didn't see any. how easy is that.
    Also it was hard to see but it looks like the joist goes into a beam with a ledger in front of the exterior wall and not on top of the wall. am I looking at that right.

    Weston Rehab and Construction management
    Orlando, Florida


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    AD, you're too dysfunctional for me to even take seriously anymore. But keep flexing those keyboard muscles. You're doing great.

    Now for those who actually have something to offer here.......

    A little background on the house. This is actually an older property that the builder purchased and is using parts of the original structure in the new house. The wood framing against that concrete block to the left in one pic is actually a fireplace chimney for a wood burning fireplace. Not only was wood framing from the old house structure in contact with the chimney, so was some new framing in contact as well. The bedroom in the room above also had newer wood framing in contact with the chimney as well as some romex cables against the chimney (they were run behind the stud and were pinched in between the studs and chimney). When I talked to my client, I asked him about the fireplace and chimney and he said the builders are going to turn it back into a wood burning fireplace. I told him it was wrong. And there were two termite damaged ceiling joists in the basement which were not addressed.

    Even though this was a predrywall, there were a lot of things not done or incomplete that made me think they weren't close to being ready for insulation or drywall. Nail plates missing in many areas, no draft stop or fire stopping at any of the penetrations, no flashing boots on the roof plumbing vents, no exhaust ducts run or installed for any of the bathroom vent fans, light switch boxes not secured to studs, etc. It just went on and on. Plus, they had solid soffits on the roofs.......no soffit ventilation. And the ridge vent when viewed from inside the house appeared to be blocked by the ice and water shield at the ridge.

    Ronin, those joists did bear on top of the exterior facing wall. The angle of the pic and lack of depth perception makes it hard to tell.

    My client told me the builder has a meeting with the township today to get approval on the framing so the results should be interesting.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Kossow View Post
    You said this was pre drywall inspection? what about tie downs, hold downs, straps, hurricane clips, I didn't see any. how easy is that.
    Weston Rehab and Construction management
    Orlando, Florida
    Many areas do not require tie downs, hold downs, straps, or hurricane clips. Look at Nick's location, I don't think they get many hurricanes in his neck of the woods!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    @N.O.: Double top plate on the bearing wall needs to be intact. I would check the plans (and notes) to check for a call-out for double king studs on that doorway. There's no picture of the area to the "right" of the wall/chimney, but I'm curious about the overlap on the framing there.
    What seismic zone are you in there? Does the plan have any engineering?
    The easiest thing to do is for a temp wall to be put up, roll up the wiring (hopefully no plumbing to be removed or it will need to be tested again), construct the wall properly, and use structural ties at the wall.

    As far as snarky comments, ignore the poster. In less professional settings they are called "trolls" and it's just better to let them snarl from under the bridge.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    They have the sub-floor in upside down. The writing goes up. I'm surprised you did not catch that!
    I believe the writeing actually always goes down, next time you see the writeing look and see what it says you my be suprised at what you read! That is unless NC uses some different kind of subfloor, but around here it is always down!

    Last edited by C.Johnson; 12-29-2010 at 02:02 PM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Here's the thing HG........or whoever you are. I never claimed to know everything and I wouldn't be so pompous as to try and belittle somebody for posting up something in an attempt to get more information about something they haven't seen before. That obviously is not your M.O. but I'm digressing.

    You've now stated at least three separate times that there are more issues present in the pics that I have not mentioned and which you assume I am not aware. Yet, you continue to be evasive and do not identify or state the issues which have you so aghast. Why is this?

    I'm not the only person who uses this board as a professional resource but you treat it like it is some game for you. If you actually have something useful to pass along, you have the opportunity to do so. Or......you can continue to play your little mind games and erode your credibility.

    If anybody else sees anything in the pics that they see as an issue aside from the bearing wall framing, please chime in. I come on here to share and learn. But I unfortunately ended up tangled in a pissing match with guys who would rather flex their keyboard muscles than actually be helpful.
    N.O.

    Again you show your snarky true colors.

    Was willing to expound if you had the least bit of courtesy but as usual your responses from the beginning were full of your usual venom.

    Instead of answering the most simple of questions, i.e. your purpose for doing said "pre-drywall inspection" you (as usual) swim at your usual depth in muck and spew it. You started, as usual, and completely unprovoked.

    Obviously, the most basic, escapes you, including civility.

    Then you sink to your usual lower depths and start inventing.

    SP, you're yet again up to playing games and feigning memory lapses. How very creative you have become re-writing history. Big body, green eyes, little man. Wear a hat.


  33. #33

    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Shoe fits, wear it.
    Oh my goodness!!! what a Troll Mr. Watson... someone needs a meds refill

    can someone just freeze this high yacked thread... PLEASE


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Once in awhile I get on here to read the post, Then I read all this negative, putting people down, making fun of their knowledge and just plain nasty comments. So these kind of abusive statements keep a lot of good people off of this sight. I would love to come on here and make comments or ask for advice but its not worth the stress. It has been about six months since my last post and I stated I would never post again,but I keep hoping some of you guys would change or just move on. I know there are a lot of people who would use this site if was different. I know I would.


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    N.O.

    Again you show your snarky true colors.

    Was willing to expound if you had the least bit of courtesy but as usual your responses from the beginning were full of your usual venom.

    Instead of answering the most simple of questions, i.e. your purpose for doing said "pre-drywall inspection" you (as usual) swim at your usual depth in muck and spew it. You started, as usual, and completely unprovoked.

    Obviously, the most basic, escapes you, including civility.

    Then you sink to your usual lower depths and start inventing.

    SP, you're yet again up to playing games and feigning memory lapses. How very creative you have become re-writing history. Big body, green eyes, little man. Wear a hat.
    Good heavens.

    Some people are so used to being adversarial and abrasive on a regular basis and having their jabs go uncontested that when somebody jabs back, they are suddenly the victim. You need look no further than your 2nd reply on this thread to see why it took the turn that it did.

    I wish you nothing but good luck and good health in your life HG. But you and I are obviously oil and water and should never mix again. Good luck with everything you do.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Thomas View Post
    Once in awhile I get on here to read the post, Then I read all this negative, putting people down, making fun of their knowledge and just plain nasty comments. So these kind of abusive statements keep a lot of good people off of this sight. I would love to come on here and make comments or ask for advice but its not worth the stress. It has been about six months since my last post and I stated I would never post again,but I keep hoping some of you guys would change or just move on. I know there are a lot of people who would use this site if was different. I know I would.
    Darrell, I was thinking the same thing yesterday as all the crap was being spewed. I don't mind so much about myself getting this crap as I'm not going anywhere and I know who is not to be taken seriously anymore. But the insults and angry personalities can definitely keep some people off the board who want to learn. You probably know by now from the time you've spent on here who will throw the jabs and punches. You can put those names on your IGNORE list and you'll never see anything they say on here ever again. It would definitely make for a more positive and educational experience.

    There's enough good on here to stick with the site Darrell. Think about using that IGNORE option. Some people will say "don't take it personal, it's just business". That's nothing more than an excuse for bad behavior.

    Last edited by Nick Ostrowski; 07-12-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Sob Sisters:

    I joined this forum the first time several years ago and was summarily blasted from all sides by every manner of a$$holes available (and there was no shortage of them). I was a bit surprised, but soon learned to go with the flow. While I do like to practice my own brand of defensive offensiveness, it may not appeal to you. Get over it.

    Every day I see and hear things in this world that I do not agree with and/or do not appeal to me. I choose not to sit around and moan about it, for it will be to no avail.

    So then, either buy stock in the Kleenex brand, or grow up and act like the men you are currently merely impersonating.
    They are simply saying that the negative comments are making people think twice about posting their pictures and asking for feedback as Nick did with his pictures out of fear of "looking stupid" for not knowing something. That is not good for this site, as it is intended to help someone "when they don't know something".

    Keep the critism to a low and just write your educated opinions What do you care if he's certified or what capacity he's working in? Do you work for the building department where he did the predrywall inspection?


  38. #38
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Johnson View Post
    I believe the writing actually always goes down, next time you see the writing look and see what it says you my be surprised at what you read! That is unless NC uses some different kind of sub floor, but around here it is always down!
    I was trying to be funny and lighten the mood. It looks like I failed miserably!


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    GS: I understand the issue and will have to respectfully disagree with your premise. The one thing that any HI is certain to encounter during the course of his or her job is criticism. If one cannot abide it here, in cyberspace, how will he be crippled by its effects in the real world?



    GS: Though I can empathize with your concern, I also have a right to speak my mind here, or elsewhere, in any fashion I deem appropriate. Or do you live in a jurisdiction which does not cater to free speech?

    While HG and I may have been a little harsh with NO, he has been on the other side of the equation more than once. One should not dish it, if one cannot take it.
    Didn't realize there was history between the two of you.

    Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want wherever you want. But that's another debate that's probably not suitable for this forum.


  40. #40
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    While HG and I may have been a little harsh with NO, he has been on the other side of the equation more than once. One should not dish it, if one cannot take it.
    I have? Where have I ripped somebody who simply asked for feedback, in the same vein as I did in starting this train wreck of a thread?


  41. #41
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    See, this is where guys like you keep up the same act because nobody calls you on what you say. Well, I'm calling on you to show me where I ripped somebody who simply asked for feedback, as you said I have done in the past.

    It's not about getting over anything AD. It's about credibility and the things you say or allege. You made the statement. You should back it up with facts.

    And as for your statement "We simply had a bit of fun - at your expense", you've just exposed yourself and the juvenile mind games you play. Just another person who is eroding his own credibility

    OK, now that I have lowered myself even further and played a role in dragging this thread (which was supposed to be useful) down into the gutter, I am bowing out of it for good. I apologize to everybody that the thread became what it did.


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    See, this is where guys like you keep up the same act because nobody calls you on what you say. Well, I'm calling on you to show me where I ripped somebody who simply asked for feedback, as you said I have done in the past.

    It's not about getting over anything AD. It's about credibility and the things you say or allege. You made the statement. You should back it up with facts.

    And as for your statement "We simply had a bit of fun - at your expense", you've just exposed yourself and the juvenile mind games you play. Just another person who is eroding his own credibility

    OK, now that I have lowered myself even further and played a role in dragging this thread (which was supposed to be useful) down into the gutter, I am bowing out of it for good. I apologize to everybody that the thread became what it did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, that was H.G. Watson Sr. for your enjoyment. Give him a big round of applause.

    For his next act, he's going to pull his head out of his ass and try to act like a normal person who can respond like a rational human being and doesn't expect people to read his mind. Stay tuned, it should be good.

    Giving up my Starbucks Recovery meeting to check out the Ass Chewer's Anon Group. I have no need to pucker or lick. Am due to get new kicking boots though, sure would make my Dentist happy if I stopped unnecessary stress on whats left of my aging teeth.

    ----, ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------ -------- -- --- --- ------- - ------- ----- ------- --------- --- ---- --- --- ---- ----- ---- ----- ----- --------- ---- ----- ----- -- --- ----------. -------, ---- - ---- ----- --- -------- ---- -- --------- -- ---- --------.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 07-15-2010 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Removed content per request

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    jeez..this is gets out of hand quickly..I could not go for a beer fearing that some of you guys would wipe my rear for something trivial.

    edited BTW: This to me is a bearing wall. Facing this condition I would recommend top double plate and horizontal blocking (some ppl calle it fire blocking) to prevent the studs from buckling.

    Last edited by Joao Vieira; 07-12-2010 at 08:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    i thought i only would read this soap opera stuff on facebook. i was wrong. thanks guys. nice to see the elderly can act like us youngins still


    jk fellas


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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    InspectionNews, sounds professional, but once I got in and started reading some of these comments I was surprised and disappointed. There is more soap opera on here than television, which I don't watch. I am new to the HI profession (if this is what it's like maybe it should not be called a profession) and was hoping to find sites with good CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and feedback.
    Unfortunately I think this is why a lot of sites charge fee's, to control this type of discouraging, nonprofessional gibberish.
    I would love to pick the brains of some of the few seasoned professionals on here but not at the risk of having to waste my time dealing with (or even reading) rubbish.
    Before the rubbish comes out on what I have stated, let me tell you, I can take whatever crap people feel they need to dish out at me for whatever reason. After serving in the Marine Corps I wanted to work in a field of professionals to be able to discuss ideas, give and receive positive feedback and be able to rely on others in the profession for solid guidance. The tough talk and negative feedback from a few is not helpful and may be the demise of this forum. It is unfortunate, this could be a really helpful and insightful, fun place.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rhodes View Post
    ...The tough talk and negative feedback from a few is not helpful and may be the demise of this forum...
    Yep. It can be a nasty and poisonous atmosphere at times, can't it. I know I'm sick of it.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Ok, I know you guys are tough behind a key board and you talk about the real world and how tough it is. I realize you think your a man with more knowledge than everone else. The one who knows everything. And thats ok, In your own mind. We don't want to go there... when you talk your crap just to stimulate your sexual urges and get off on putting people down is perverted. So is this hostility a manifestation of you feeling inadiquite around other men, that you must lash out to satisfy your perverted urge?

    Back to the real world: you and others like you a tough behind the key board. In the real world: No one talks this kind of crap with out getting a mud hole stomped in their ass. That sir is the real world.... And another thing; shut your Dame Mouth when it comes to mouthing off about the US Military... They die to keep you and your family, and the rest of the county safe so you can talk your crap. Have some respect.
    So do us all a big favor and never log on to another computer. We don't want people like you. You reccomended that we quit whinning and deal with it. So here it is from now on I will help to stand up for people who are just trying to learn and gain knowledge on this site against people like you guys. So shut up with the trash talk and help people. Or get the hell off my web site. It belongs to us, the ones who dont know everything. So come on you guys that want to learn: Tell the Trash Pervers that we don't want them here.


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    A.D. I find it amazing that you find the time to enlighten us all with your take on reality, while obviously being double jointed and choking on your own gonads. Intelligence is not measured by what you know but, how you impart what you know to others. In this you have failed miserably.


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bell View Post
    A.D. I find it amazing that you find the time to enlighten us all with your take on reality, while obviously being double jointed and choking on your own gonads. Intelligence is not measured by what you know but, how you impart what you know to others. In this you have failed miserably.
    Well put.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    As much as I like to see I am not alone in my feelings about why this thread took the direction it did, I feel it is best that we just let it die here guys. Let's shift our focus back to the purpose of this board......home inspection related topics, constructive opinions, lending assistance, and learning.


  51. #51
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    Exclamation Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Thomas View Post
    Once in awhile I get on here to read the post, Then I read all this negative, putting people down, making fun of their knowledge and just plain nasty comments. So these kind of abusive statements keep a lot of good people off of this sight. I would love to come on here and make comments or ask for advice but its not worth the stress. It has been about six months since my last post and I stated I would never post again,but I keep hoping some of you guys would change or just move on. I know there are a lot of people who would use this site if was different. I know I would.
    Darrell is absolutely right!

    I devote countless hours to develop and maintain this site with the intent that adults in the same profession can come on here, ask questions and help each other out in a professional, respectful way. Help one another whether they are seasoned professional or new into the business. All questions are good questions. People should not be picked on for what they don't know or just to prove that you may think you know more. That is why they are here, to ask questions. You get that? Ask a question, get answers TO THAT QUESTION and move on.

    Asking questions and getting answers is what this site is all about. If people are posting replies to provoke rather than to help and answer that defeats my intent and makes a waste of all the hours I have put into InspectionNews.

    I have received many complaints from many people lately about the rude, aggressive and non-helpful posts throughout many threads on this site and the majority (but not all) of complaints are about the same two people. I finally got a chance to go through and read some of these threads and I can't agree more with the complaints.

    This is hurting the board which in turn hurts me financially. This site may be free for all of you to use but this is my business and just as many of you have turned down clients for the better of your company I will delete users form the site to help my company. I have no problem with that. You are guests here and if you can't be respectful of one another you can go elsewhere. There is always someone to fill your spot. Harsh but true.

    There are over 13,000 members but most of them will not post because they have seen how others have been treated, torn apart for no reason. I can't blame them at all and I will take the blame for not stepping in sooner. These people just become readers hoping that someone else will post the question they would like to ask.

    This is going to end and end now. There are rules on this board as you all know because you all agreed to them when you registered and the "Message Board Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers " along with the "Board Rules Infraction System/Policy" are posted in the announcement at the top of every category.

    If you don't have sincere helpful advice for a question that has been asked, don't answer. Simple as that.

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    Default Re: Framing on Double Top Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post

    A little background on the house. This is actually an older property that the builder purchased and is using parts of the original structure in the new house.
    Yes, this was obviously a build-out and build-UP addition/remodel/rework no-tear-down attempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post

    The wood framing against that concrete block to the left in one pic is actually a fireplace chimney for a wood burning fireplace. Not only was wood framing from the old house structure in contact with the chimney, so was some new framing in contact as well.
    Good you acknowledge that. You don't mention how or IF that was addressed in the plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostowski View Post

    The bedroom in the room above also had newer wood framing in contact with the chimney as well as some romex cables against the chimney (they were run behind the stud and were pinched in between the studs and chimney). When I talked to my client, I asked him about the fireplace and chimney and he said the builders are going to turn it back into a wood burning fireplace. I told him it was wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostowski View Post
    And there were two termite damaged ceiling joists in the basement which were not addressed.
    Okay, confirmed we have two stories over basement and attic/roof structure. Appreciate other viewers get that from you, for those unable to see the obvious problems not just the specific details you highlighted in your prior post(s) but perhaps more of the significant "issues" above, in front, aside, and behind in your photos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostowski View Post

    Even though this was a predrywall, there were a lot of things not done or incomplete that made me think they weren't close to being ready for insulation or drywall. Nail plates missing in many areas, no draft stop or fire stopping at any of the penetrations, no flashing boots on the roof plumbing vents, no exhaust ducts run or installed for any of the bathroom vent fans, light switch boxes not secured to studs, etc. It just went on and on. Plus, they had solid soffits on the roofs.......no soffit ventilation. And the ridge vent when viewed from inside the house appeared to be blocked by the ice and water shield at the ridge.

    Ronin, those joists did bear on top of the exterior facing wall. The angle of the pic and lack of depth perception makes it hard to tell.
    Much premature, sticking with the basic substandard framing - the rest is a house of cards, premature extra load, the structural remediation is the first and most urgent issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostowski View Post

    My client told me the builder has a meeting with the township today to get approval on the framing so the results should be interesting.
    Still don't know if your client is the homeowner or your "inspecting" for a release of funds, stage payment, insurance, etc. Thanks for clarifying you're not functioning as an AHJ.

    Basics in framing exterior, sheer, and interior bearing walls above basements platform for two stories plus roof/attic. This includes selection of materials and their orientation.

    Requirements when framing openings in walls above. >/= 3', >/= 6'.

    Basics in framing floors/ceiling assemblies.

    Blocking above interior bearing wall not just to fireblock serves a structural purpose.

    The non-bearing partition wall minimally evidenced in one photo is also wrong.

    The photos display some rudimentary "carpentry" errors even for non-structural framing.

    You have made no mention of the approved/stamped plans.

    Yes, electrical at present is wrong in placement, protection, etc. It will have to be removed in order to remediate.

    Should I refer you to a basic framing rudimentary brochure on residential construction? An introduction to reading plans? Do you have practical experience in construction? I don't know your background other than you are a HI 7 or 8 years, can't find your name on ICC certs database inquiry, and profile a "college education", and what you have on your website. I am doing my best to NOT offend. I do not know what you "think" you "know".

    Have you reviewed the plans (are there plans)? The permits? Who was responsible for the plans (and who hired the "planner") your client or the contractor?

    Will you be attending the AHJ inspection? Who do you represent in your efforts, the property owner (acting as own GC - construction consultant?), the bank, insurance/bond, etc.

    The problems are plentiful. I honestly have never met an AHJ who would stick around for more than a moment in such an environment, after 3 major errors in one location with so many others abundantly present, it would fail, potentially a stop work order and unsafe conditions posting.
    So very much is wrong, and on a basic level.

    With the above in mind, reviewing again the original post, and my first two posts on the topic thread, you will find my head was not exactly in the orifice you indicated, and can see my original follow-up question to you was just what it was. I characterized the status, and that it would not pass for drywall, also indicated the "issues" were not limited to the subject title of the post, nor the details you described you were questioning/concerned.


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