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  1. #1
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    Default Why is this done

    Take a look at this photo of siding on a brick wall, where the siding is around a bathroom window. I feel dumb for asking but I am not sure why this is done (A siding area near a window...most always bathroom windows). I see it all the time. A builder told me the reason once however I seemed to have forgotten. It was something I think about gaining an extra few inches without the brick being there. Anyone know why this wall is built this way? Why not use brick here?

    What say ye experts...

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Guessing on what the circumstance might have been besides just design breaking up field of brickwork.

    Looks like a great place for a walk-out, french doors, etc. Is this at the master bath/suite? or development had one fewer bedroom option for expanded master suite? Private deck off same?

    Flexible floor plan options, i.e. options to modify window opening height and size depending on design options selected by buyer for the bathroom, larger bath vs. walk in closet, etc.?

    Possibly needed depth in wall for plumbing (DWV) and insulation for toilet placement.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Sounds like it's just a design choice. You'd have to cantilever the floor joists to get any extra niches but I guess it'd give you a few.



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  4. #4
    Gabe S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    [quote=Erby Crofutt;137947]Sounds like it's just a design choice. You'd have to cantilever the floor joists to get any extra niches but I guess it'd give you a few.

    Do you mind explaining what you mean by this? I can't quite visualize what you are saying about the cantilevering to get more room for niches?

    Bye the way, I think that design looks awful and wierd. Should be brick all the way. Put in your report that it looks ugly. .


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe S View Post
    Do you mind explaining what you mean by this? I can't quite visualize what you are saying about the cantilevering to get more room for niches?
    From the face of the brick veneer to the wood frame wall is typically 5" +/-. The brick veneer can not carry any load so you can't 'sit' the wall on the brick, plus the wall would be built before the veneer goes up.

    So you would have to cantilever that section of wall to get it out flush with the brick. I don't know about other areas, but around here there are 100's of older homes (mostly split level) that have brick on the lower level and siding above which is the most common use for this method.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    This type of siding configuration is very common hear in the Dallas Texas area, so this is a common construction method for the Dallas area. All the big home builders do this. i am sure some Texas inspectors have seen it also. Maybe one will comment.


  7. #7
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    This is usually done by "bumping" or "boxing" out the wall where the siding will be installed. I personally have never seen an installation such as this and suspect it to be either poor initial design and/or incorrect installation. Just my opinion.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    That's the opening where all the larger equipment , sheetrock, etc, is delivered to the second floor during construction off a forklift to reduce labor cost. As with any construction job. Certain windows or openings get all the abuse. Or is that home inspectors


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Hi Wayne, that "sorta" sounds right but I dont think that is the main reason.


  10. #10
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Could it be they framed for sliding doors for a future balcony and this look is supposed to be temporary until the doors are installed.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    That's the opening where all the larger equipment , sheetrock, etc, is delivered to the second floor during construction off a forklift to reduce labor cost. As with any construction job. Certain windows or openings get all the abuse. Or is that home inspectors
    Exactly, such as the soaker tub for the bathroom.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    When I have seen that type of detail I have always thought that it was for a possible door that could lead to a balcony/deck. I never gave any thought to the idea of it being a type of loading dock for the home!

    In my area the tubs are in as soon as the framing is ready for them and this is usually before any brick or siding is up on the home. Drywall comes in through whatever opening they can find. I love it when they modify the windows in the home by dragging stuff through them!

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 07-17-2010 at 08:42 AM.
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  13. #13
    Philip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    It would be nice to look at the original plans, but my money is on a sliding glass door leading out to a balcony that was scratched after the brick men left the site.


  14. #14
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    There is an obvious joint between the "new" house and the "old'" house. What is pictured was most likely a master suite slider when the home was much smaller. Could even have been an outdoor porch at one time.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    I live near this area where this home is located and like all the others in the area, that siding is for no other reason except for appearance reasons. No one wants to see a whole wall of brick which gives a home a fortress look or like a prison in appearance. That is the only reason for it.

    Its not for a door, a closet or for a deck. Its just to break up that large walll of brick.

    Some cities here had requirements on how much brick can be present or how much siding a home may have.

    rick


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    David,

    That crack you mention is a control expansion joint in the brick veneer due to the length of the wall. It is not an addition. Another thing you may notice is the soldier bricks below the siding. Again just a cosmetic thing.

    rick


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    David,

    Chris explained the cantilever thingy.

    Around here, there's always a double hung window on the second floor even if all the others are single hung.

    That's done so the truck with the drywall lift can get the drywall to the second floor.

    Architects and builders make strange design choices. Who knows why sometimes.

    It's certainly not for a slider to the balcony with the bathtub on the other side of the wall.


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    They do that for aesthetics??? I swear, not even in Texas would they do that for the beauty of vinyl siding. The soldier course was put there to accept a threshold. I do not think it was an addition even if the bricks change hue. At one time glass blocks was used in the bathroom until people realized that it did not provide privacy, and there is a whole subdivision built like this, most all of them built in the 50's, and a lot of them framed in with vinyl. There is an exhaust vent in the bottom course which makes me think bathroom. No matter what caused it, it is UGLY, and it is a shame you can not put that in your report.

    Last edited by Philip; 07-18-2010 at 06:44 AM.

  19. #19
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    David,

    That crack you mention is a control expansion joint in the brick veneer due to the length of the wall. It is not an addition. Another thing you may notice is the soldier bricks below the siding. Again just a cosmetic thing.

    rick
    Thank you for pointing out the obvious twice. It seems that many people here would like to read a lot into nothing that is going on with that house other than poor "design" and "workmanship". Just my opinion.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    They do that for aesthetics??? I swear, not even in Texas would they do that for the beauty of vinyl siding.

    Looks like fiber cement siding to me, not that that changes anything, just an observation.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    Looks like fiber cement siding to me, not that that changes anything, just an observation.
    Cement siding for sure.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Despite the "norm" in S.P.'s area, most sub-division developments especially remotely oriented ones that I have seen in the last few years, the "norm" has been to hold back on the installation of large fixtures and major appliances until the very last, and not until after the exterior for each structure at least at those areas accessible easily from ground are secured (even temporarily).

    Construction site thefts of uninstalled and installed materials are common place in certain areas of the country. This includes the frequent theft of large compressors and generators, (even larger equipment such as earth movers, lifts, etc., even those on or in trailers). Often so common place it rarely makes the "news", even in a police blotter column.So much so, that in some areas and some builders make a practice of placing compressors in structure up on second floor, then remove via same headered portal previously secured temporarily, and finish out cripple framing, sheathing, flashing & siding upon removal. Most common to do so via 2nd story ensuite/master bath, walk-in closet or dressing room, or stairway landing/hall. (last area to be finished).

    You asked why usually always the bathroom areas? Well, logically, especially in newer construction and larger homes - you'd (hopefully) find the full bath areas' framing beefed up to provide for less-flex allowing for tile install and the support of the weight of soaking tubs, etc. Also, as the installation of those fixtures and finishes of same are often last, even in "on spec" (not yet pre-sold) construction units in development, delaying/allowing for selection of color, design, options to be selected by the buyer. Even when builder's selections are installed - delaying to the last avoids damages and fouling by the workers in earlier phases.

    I did mention intinitally, the breaking up visually/asthetically of a large field of brickwork.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 07-19-2010 at 09:01 AM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Not having to deal with and possibly damaging interior stairway. Rolling it in on a dolly or cart. Similar reason large compressors are flown in and out 2nd floor (re theft prevention).


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Not having to deal with and possibly damaging interior stairway. Rolling it in on a dolly or cart. Similar reason large compressors are flown in and out 2nd floor (re theft prevention).
    That makes more sense. I see the reason, and it is the theft issue. I still think I would ask the brick guys to come back. H.G., are you inspecting houses that helicopters and delivering to the second story?


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    That makes more sense. I see the reason, and it is the theft issue. I still think I would ask the brick guys to come back. H.G., are you inspecting houses that helicopters and delivering to the second story?
    Flying as in via crane, Philip.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    A lot of theory going on here, so I'll post mine. From experience the section of wall was repaired at one point because of rot. Here's the reason I say this... Bathtub walls with windows in them are leakers. They are never maintained properly, by regular recaulking around the window, so water gets in the wall unnoticed until it's too late. The first outward sign of a problem is when the homeowner notices the wall moves when leaned on. At that point the studs are rotted, usually from the floor up, and will need to be replaced. Sometimes if they let it go long enough the floor is rotted too. This usually happens in rental units because the tenant doesn't really care, it isn't his problem. To try and replace the framing, sheathing, moisture barrier, etc. from the inside can be a pain. Although cutting the brick to do it from the outside is a drastic approach, it probably seemed easier at the time, especially if they replaced the tub at the same time. Every time I see a window in a tub wall I expect to find damage, and usually do. Replacing the brick removed with conventional siding saved the homeowner a few bucks.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Good Gawd guys, there is no need to dissect the picture of this home. It's just some siding on a brick wall. Its not a portal in the wall for deliveries, its not where a deck to a second addition was going, or an area where repairs have been done.

    Leave it be.

    Geeshhh..... sorry I had to bring religion into my post.

    rick


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    I think it is where they roll the cannon to for those noisy neighbors. After all you have to quiet those suckers some how. There is one on the other side of the home as well.

    It is easier to replace a stud and a couple pieces of siding after the blast hence the siding and not brick.

    That would be my guess other than just crappy design.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Good Gawd guys, there is no need to dissect the picture of this home. It's just some siding on a brick wall. Its not a portal in the wall for deliveries, its not where a deck to a second addition was going, or an area where repairs have been done.

    Leave it be.

    Geeshhh..... sorry I had to bring religion into my post.

    rick
    Mr. Hurst: Take a deep breath, unsubscribe from this rather frazzled thread, and careful with the sacred sayings. There are a few with noses of blue on this forum, you know.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    It's a break away wall for floods, sort of like the foundation vents in coastal areas.

    My bet is door option.

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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Your shatting me! A door? A door to where? How many doors does one see on the side wall of a second story home of this age? I personally have never seen one. I guess they might be possible on some home that some Bubba built.

    Just to prove a point I drove up to McKinney today and searched the area to find this home that Gene S. inspected.

    After a few hours of driving the area, I found the home in question (McKinney is not a huge town). Being that the home was vacant I took it upon myself to remove the siding on this home for a bit of investigation. Just as I expected, it was nothing to do with any of the comments posted on this matter. Actually the entire home was just a shell to hide something else.

    rick

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  32. #32
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Your shatting me! A door? A door to where? How many doors does one see on the side wall of a second story home of this age? I personally have never seen one. I guess they might be possible on some home that some Bubba built.

    Just to prove a point I drove up to McKinney today and searched the area to find this home that Gene S. inspected.

    After a few hours of driving the area, I found the home in question (McKinney is not a huge town). Being that the home was vacant I took it upon myself to remove the siding on this home for a bit of investigation. Just as I expected, it was nothing to do with any of the comments posted on this matter. Actually the entire home was just a shell to hide something else.

    rick
    Darn, and I thought it was for a cannon


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    ROFL......

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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    If that's a design thing, well it's gotta be regional. Or maybe the same architect designed all of them. Perhaps he's a nut.

    In my neighborhood, I'd call it a mistake. Or perhaps there used to be something else in that spot, and it was changed.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Rick, you had me going. I thought you had reached an element of boredom that you were driving around looking for a house just out of curiosity, got your ladder and tools and climbed to the second story to settle this discussion once and for all. OMG. Have you notified the Dept. of Homeland Security?


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    I put on some Old Spice and disarmed it myself.

    The world is now a better place.

    rick


  37. #37
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I live near this area where this home is located and like all the others in the area, that siding is for no other reason except for appearance reasons. No one wants to see a whole wall of brick which gives a home a fortress look or like a prison in appearance. That is the only reason for it.

    Its not for a door, a closet or for a deck. Its just to break up that large walll of brick.

    Some cities here had requirements on how much brick can be present or how much siding a home may have.

    rick
    Why wouldn't they do the other window the same way?


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    David,

    You just had to bring this thread back up again. Just enjoy beating a dead horse do you?

    rick


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    David,

    You just had to bring this thread back up again. Just enjoy beating a dead horse do you?

    rick
    I know, what can I say, In Ca. you would most likely see both windows done


  40. #40
    Andrew Christel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Up graded the bathroom,
    The wife bought a new whirlpool bathtub and it would not fit up the stairs.
    So they had to cut out the exterior wall to fit the tub inside the new bathroom.
    With all that said and done, It might have cost the home owner more than what they had budgeted.


  41. #41
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Gene,

    After inspecting a couple homes today in the same Centex neighborhood I couldn't help but observe the same siding below the bathroom window situation you had brought up before.

    So just to beat on the dead horse some more, I post the following pics.

    rick

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  42. #42
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Centex neighborhood
    Mr. Hurst: That about says it all . . .


  43. #43
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Brick house, vinyl chimney, seems perfectly normal for Texas.


  44. #44
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Well if this is purely for aesthetics the designer should be fired......... and beaten.


  45. #45
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Builder had the plans upside down,, that was supposed to be the garage door.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Hey Rick, you and I know some of the answers we have heard are not correct, and this is common in this area. It points out how regional some construction is. I am meeting a builder tomorrow and I have print out of one of your photos and will show him. I know there is a good reason for this and I will ask.

    Gene


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Gene,

    We don't question our northerner friends who build a pool under their homes and then question why it fills with water do we?

    rick


  48. #48
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Maybe the only way to remove the powder blue tub is to open up that wall and push.


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    David, I actually saw a black tub last week. Why would anyone want a black tub. The thing looked like a casket.

    rick


  50. #50
    Andrew Christel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    With a black tub you will not see the mold buildup. And they won't have to clean as often.


  51. #51
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    I know there is a good reason for this and I will ask.
    Mr. South: I fear that you will be disappointed.


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    I think I will take the pool instead of that fuggly facade.......

    Mike Schulz License 393
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  53. #53
    David Bell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    David, I actually saw a black tub last week. Why would anyone want a black tub. The thing looked like a casket.

    rick
    Didn't have pink tile around it did it? I have seen some black tubs installed in the 70s that were surrounded by pink and white tile. The only good part about it was it made you shudder, so when you were done doing your business you didn't have to shake.


  54. #54
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Speaking of strange building practises, in KY and WV I have seen numerous, and I mean a whole bunch of them, rural houses with two front doors just a few feet away from each other. I always asked why and was given a lot of different reasons. A popular one was it was for the parlor and the preacher, another was that the farmer did not wake the rest of the family when he got out early for chores. Then I met a man who had built a house with the two front doors and I thought I was finally going to solve this mystery. He told me he did it because that was the way his father had built his house.


  55. #55
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Hello To All, I have seen this many times over the years both in the north and southern regions. I am sure there are many reasons for this however, the one that is most commonly explained is that a "modular" tub unit was to be installed in the home. Many builders do not install the units before the framing is complete for two reasons. One being theft, the other being damage to the unit. Therefore, the exterior wall in the bathroom is left open to facilitate installation of the tub unit. As I said, there are many reasons for this type of finishing and in my experience the tub installation is most prevelant.


  56. #56
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    Here we go again!

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  57. #57
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    RH - Pls have 'em put a stop to this.


  58. #58
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    Default Re: Why is this done

    It's a Hoffa mystery...........

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