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Thread: Small Kitchen

  1. #1
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Small Kitchen

    Any info on how small a kitchen can be?

    This thing is very small., The oven door just clears to refrigerator door.

    Best

    Ron

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Galley Kitchens suck but I would be surprised to hear of an actual size requirement other than width to walk through and ceiling height..
    I think width minimum might be 36" in IRC.

    Local codes could be different though.

    Last edited by Bob Elliott; 09-28-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Kitchens of that size are very common around here in Philadelphia area row homes. Not new construction but older homes.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    R304
    R304.1: Every dwelling unit shall have at least one habitable romm that shall have not less than 120 square feet of gross area.
    R340.21: Other Rooms. Other habitable rooms shall have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet
    Exception: Kitchens
    R304.3: Minimum Dimensions. Habitable rooms shall not be less than 7 feet in any horizontal direction
    Exception: Kitchens

    Any other room 7x7 or 7x10. Kitchens no minimum.

    Last edited by Bruce Ramsey; 09-29-2010 at 08:07 AM.
    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    I believe the min size is 7x10. I will have to rummage thru some code to confirm
    That is minimum bedroom size.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Hey Ron,

    You shouldn't leave your flashlight on the counter like that. Someone might remove the battery.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    ron,
    calif building code requires 50 square feet of gross floor area minimum for a kitchen. 1208.3


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Hey Ron,

    You shouldn't leave your flashlight on the counter like that. Someone might remove the battery.
    Sounds like there is more to this story...
    Who has the sticky fingers, Gunnar or Ron?

    Jim Luttrall
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    R304
    R304.1: Every dwelling unit shall have at least one habitable romm that shall have not less than 120 square feet of gross area.
    R340.21: Other Rooms. Other habitable rooms shall have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet
    Exception: Kitchens
    R304.3: Minimum Dimensions. Habitable rooms shall not be less than 7 feet in any horizontal direction
    Exception: Kitchens

    Any other room 7x7 or 7x10. Kitchens no minimum.
    "Any other room 7x7 or 7x10."

    Nope.

    (Do the math for the 70 square feet minimum area. )

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "Any other room 7x7 or 7x10."

    Nope.

    (Do the math for the 70 square feet minimum area. )
    Is that empty or including 70 square feet of appliance footprint?


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Is that empty or including 70 square feet of appliance footprint?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    R304
    R304.1: Every dwelling unit shall have at least one habitable romm that shall have not less than 120 square feet of gross area.
    R340.21: Other Rooms. Other habitable rooms shall have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet
    Exception: Kitchens
    R304.3: Minimum Dimensions. Habitable rooms shall not be less than 7 feet in any horizontal direction
    Exception: Kitchens
    "Exception: Kitchens"

    Kitchens do not have any size requirement ... appliances or no appliances.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "Exception: Kitchens"

    Kitchens do not have any size requirement ... appliances or no appliances.
    OK ,I gotta start reading your comments closer.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    The basement suite in the house this PM had this 6X6 kitchen. I don't know where they would put standard appliances.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    A counter-depth refrigerator would have been a more prudent choice.

    I once stayed in an old farmhouse in France hat had a portable dishwasher/cooktop combo with cutting board that fit over the cooktop. It also had a combination washer/dryer unit in the kitchen. Apparently space efficiency was paramount and the kitchen was a less-important space than the dining room, which seated 20.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "Exception: Kitchens"

    Kitchens do not have any size requirement ... appliances or no appliances.
    jp,
    the question was asked by a california hi and my answer was specific to california! all other comments are na=drivel


  16. #16
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    The standard that kitchen companies used to give was 10x5 for cabinet pricing. This is because the minimum of most kitchens was 10x5. I do believe I have an old construction book somewhere that used the 10x5 minimum. Code, never. Just a standard.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    jp,
    the question was asked by a california hi and my answer was specific to california! all other comments are na=drivel
    Brian,

    I was responding to Bruce, see quote in my response.

    Also, if you read the code section you stated, 1208.3, you will likely find a confusing term, maybe you can clear that up too.

    - 1208.3 Room area. Every dwelling unit shall have at least one room that shall have not less than 120 square feet (13.9m2) of net floor area. Other habitable rooms shall have a net floor area of not less than 70 square feet (6.5 m2).
    - - Exception: Every kitchen in a one- and two-family dwelling shall have not less than 50 square feet (4.64 m2) of gross floor area.

    Question for you: The above states that more than one kitchen is allowed in a one- and two-family dwelling ... is that allowed?

    Most places I've been only allow one kitchen in a one- or two-family dwelling.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    I recall seeing something years ago, possibly HUD or FHA, which did not require a minimum size kitchen as such but did require that there be a minimum of 3 feet of clear floor space between the front plane of opposing cabinets or appliances, including any counter overhang.

    The intent was that most smaller homes had small galley kitchens and that requiring 3 feet between the opposing planes gave enough space for a person to work in, open and close cabinet doors and appliances.

    I do not know if that was carried forward to newer requirements, that was (as I recall) from 20 or more years ago.

    Not "code" per se, but 'code' because that was required by HUD or FHA and if a builder wanted to sell their house it had to meet that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    I seem to remember something like that, except I was thinking 30".

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Small Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Brian,

    I was responding to Bruce, see quote in my response.

    Also, if you read the code section you stated, 1208.3, you will likely find a confusing term, maybe you can clear that up too.

    - 1208.3 Room area. Every dwelling unit shall have at least one room that shall have not less than 120 square feet (13.9m2) of net floor area. Other habitable rooms shall have a net floor area of not less than 70 square feet (6.5 m2).
    - - Exception: Every kitchen in a one- and two-family dwelling shall have not less than 50 square feet (4.64 m2) of gross floor area.

    Question for you: The above states that more than one kitchen is allowed in a one- and two-family dwelling ... is that allowed?

    Most places I've been only allow one kitchen in a one- or two-family dwelling.
    jp,
    my jurisdiction allows an unlimited number of kitchens in a sfd. it is a planning department issue in some jurisdictions. they feel an extra kitchen means there will be an extra dwelling and will not allow it by ordinance. i grew up in an old style german household where the garden vegetables were cooked , canned and stored in the basement kitchen and everyday meals were prepared in the upstairs kitchen. many country homes still have a second cooking kitchen.
    ibc or cbc section 1208.4 covers the 30" thing


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