Bathroom exhaust fan

mathew stouffer · 10-25-2010, 08:34 PM

Town home built in 85. This thing is a beaut

Are exhuast fans required to be installed in the ceiling. Worth a few laughs on a Monday.

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**Bruce King** · 10-25-2010, 08:55 PM

No code problem but another one should be on the ceiling if a shower or tub is present for moisture removal.

**Michael Thomas** · 10-26-2010, 03:53 AM

Wall installation is OK, in fact such exhaust systems are often described by manufacturers as "ceiling and wall" fans, for example:

**Michael Thomas** · 10-26-2010, 03:56 AM

Wall installation is OK, in fact such exhaust systems are often described by manufacturers as "ceiling and wall" fans, for example: http://www.broan.com/ImageLibrary/br...s/99041024.pdf

**Michael Thomas** · 10-26-2010, 03:58 AM

Wall installation is OK from a code and AFAIK from a manufacturer standpoint, in fact such exhaust systems are often described by manufacturers as "ceiling and wall" fans, for example: http://www.broan.com/ImageLibrary/br...s/99041024.pdf As Bruce notes, they may however have functional issues.

**Markus Keller** · 10-26-2010, 05:15 AM

I used to know a developer here in Chicago that put the fan next to the toilet as a standard practice. A lot of the newer fans do work for both wall and ceiling. I have seen many models of the older or cheaper ones that state horizontal install only. On the rare occasion I see a wall install I pull the cover to check the label.

mathew stouffer · 10-26-2010, 05:57 AM

Thanks.

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 10-26-2010, 10:13 AM

Whether or not that particular exahust fan may be wall mounted in general is irrelevant.

It may not be mounted with any of its parts below the flood rim of the plumbing fixture as it is in so close proximity to (the toilet). It further requires the space and access dedicated to the electrical equipment and the toilet (plumbing fixture) requires certain unencroached space as well. The recessed fan and the electrical wiring thereto are doubfully wet location qualified and even should it be wet or damp location rated, not installed in THAT location/orientation, with THAT proximity to either the flood rim of the toilet bowl OR the toilet tank - and should there be a tank or bowl overflow that would be a problem in and of itself. The plumbing fixture requires space and clearance to maintain and CLEAN it. The "usual" cleaning materials for such a fixture tend to be caustic or corrosive, hence the finishing requirements for such "sanitary plumbing" fixtures (toilets and bidets).

without a measuring tape or scale in the picture other than the Decora style SWITCH and apparent 2-gang switch plate, it appears obvious to this viewer we have encroachment issues and height issues regarding both the flood rim of the toilet "bowl" and the toilet "tank".

From the pictured vertically installed, apparent/assumed door casing moulding, it further appears that the toilet bowl proximity encroachment to the doorway may be further restricted.

Further, not knowing the path of the exhaust venting but its origin at the exhaust fan without question - proximity to flood rim(s) brings up further concerns.

GFCI protection alone does not negate the safety concerns. The non-flush fan cover is also a safety issue in this "delicate" location, and subject to damage.

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 10-26-2010, 10:22 AM

P.S. it is furthermore unguarded from drips, stream or spray, and unsanitary in its location. With the inset t.p. holder above, also safe to assume easily blocked or t.p. debris sucked into fan. Paper and fragments combustible.

Generally wall-mounted exhaust fans require a height distance from the floor to be legally installed. For example in MT's example sample - the Broan must be a minimum five feet from the floor when wall mounted.

Finally, I wouldn't necessarily assume it or any fan in a bathroom or powder room is actually an exhaust fan unless you verified that to be the case, if that bathroom wall is an interior one, which appears likely, and with the TP holder inset in the wall, unless venting down - doesn't seem there to be an exhaust vent/duct path. Also, appears to look rather like a Nutone (ex. Model 682NT) ductless ventillation (moves air in room only often fit with a charcoal filter) no exhaust/duct) fan cover.

mathew stouffer · 10-26-2010, 04:31 PM

15 inches from center of toilet to fan cover. But it looks like the fan used all of the toilet paper.

**Jerry Peck** · 10-26-2010, 05:14 PM

The minimum 15" clearance is from the centerline of the fixture (water closet, bidet, urinal, lavatories) and is not limited to below the floor rim of the fixture.

A quick glance through that first Broan link and I did not see a limitation I have seen many times: installation in a wall requires the proper orientation so the damper self-closes instead of self-opens ... wait, there it is at INSTALLATION: 4. blah-blah-blah. For wall installation: Position unit so damper flap closes when unit is off.

If the fan can suck the toilet paper off that roll, I'd be concerned with other things that fan might just try to get hold of ...

... of course, though, if one were to adhere to that installation instruction, one would not need to worry about that as the minimum height of the fan is: WARNING: Install fan at least five feet (1.52 m) above the floor.

**Michael Thomas** · 10-26-2010, 06:06 PM

Grrrr... I was aware of the back-draft damper issue, but had never noticed (or had forgotten) that (at least some of) these fans have a min. height requirement.

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 10-26-2010, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

15 inches from center of toilet to fan cover. But it looks like the fan used all of the toilet paper.

Ah yes, so we're still a bit shy of working space, etc. Have a slight issue with dedicated equipment space (inset tp roll holder) and yes, even stray sprinkles of urine are considered deteriorating agents.

Chapter 1 of the NEC, applies to electrical installations, as does the conditions of the listing.

We used to use 5/7 as the rule, 5' for wall, 7' for ceiliing, as mounted had to meet or exceed from the finished floor, cover, grill and all.

Still wondering Mat, is it really an exhaust ventillation fan?

Ra-Shime K. Rivers · 12-15-2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

Town home built in 85. This thing is a beaut

Are exhuast fans required to be installed in the ceiling. Worth a few laughs on a Monday.

Local codes may vary, however, under the federal Housing Quality Standards, in the absence of an openable window, an exhaust fan or attic vent is required.