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  1. #1
    Brian E Kelly's Avatar
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    Cool Mobile home ceiling material?????

    I just inspected a mobile home and can not come up with the name of the material for the ceilings in these units. i want to call it wall board but don't think it is the proper wording. Any ideas?
    Thanks

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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Kindling?

    kin·dlingplay_w("K0064600")(kndlng)
    n. Easily ignited material, such as dry sticks of wood, used to start a fire. Also called regionally fat pine, fatwood, lightwood.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian E Kelly View Post
    I just inspected a mobile home and can not come up with the name of the material for the ceilings in these units. i want to call it wall board but don't think it is the proper wording. Any ideas?
    Thanks
    It's called celutex aound here.
    Jerry described it well, it looks like shredded paper and cardboard glued together, if there are damaged panels, more often than not the whole room and joining rooms will have to be replaced due to different patterns are used every few years..


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Celotex is a brand name, and the material Brian is describing is not the fiber-based sheathing material that is commonly called "Celotex" on the job site.

    I think the best term to use is drywall, because it's not paneling and it's not plaster.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    It's called celutex aound here.
    Jerry described it well, it looks like shredded paper and cardboard glued together, if there are damaged panels, more often than not the whole room and joining rooms will have to be replaced due to different patterns are used every few years..



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    I think the best term to use is drywall, because it's not paneling and it's not plaster.

    I wouldn't call that mobile home material drywall, as it is not a gypsum-based product. It is a compressed board, more akin to hardboard or fiberboard.

    Dom.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    That's the beauty of the term "drywall". It is a generic term that describes any wall/ceiling panel material, as opposed to plaster, which is applied wet.

    In my neck of the woods, gypsum panels are almost always referred to as sheetrock (even though Sheetrock is a brand name) or rock. That may well not be the case in other areas.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    I wouldn't call that mobile home material drywall, as it is not a gypsum-based product. It is a compressed board, more akin to hardboard or fiberboard.

    Dom.



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    That's the beauty of the term "drywall". It is a generic term that describes any wall/ceiling panel material, as opposed to plaster, which is applied wet.
    To the contrary, at least in most places.

    You are correct in that "dry wall" means "not plaster", which is applied wet and is therefore "wet wall" construction (so to speak).

    However, "dry wall" (shortened to "drywall") was used as a term to mean 'gypsum board which went up dry', i.e., (in those days "Sheetrock"TM, that was the one there was, everything was "Sheetrock"TM, not 'gypsum board').

    "Drywall" is taken to mean, well, ... "drywall", i.e., "Sheetrock"TM, etc.

    "Drywall" is not meant to be used to describe other wall coverings, otherwise, one would not install "paneling", one would install "drywall", because it goes up dry. One would not install T&G rough sawn cedar (like in my house's family room), one would install "drywall", as it is also "dry" and was used for the "walls".

    If 'drywall' were used for mobile home ceilings, I am sure there would be cracks all over it from movement during transportation.

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  8. #8
    Rob Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    You're wrong.

    Mobile Home Repair - Interiors is just one example of the use of the term "drywall" in mobile homes, and of the use of sheetrock in mobile homes.

    In fact, all walls and ceilings in the mobile home I inspected today for a California investor were covered with sheetrock.

    I can post photos, if you are unconvinced.

    I'll concede that "drywall" is not the best term to use for ALL mobile home interior materials, but it's adequate for most that are still habitable.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    To the contrary, at least in most places.

    You are correct in that "dry wall" means "not plaster", which is applied wet and is therefore "wet wall" construction (so to speak).

    However, "dry wall" (shortened to "drywall") was used as a term to mean 'gypsum board which went up dry', i.e., (in those days "Sheetrock"TM, that was the one there was, everything was "Sheetrock"TM, not 'gypsum board').

    "Drywall" is taken to mean, well, ... "drywall", i.e., "Sheetrock"TM, etc.

    "Drywall" is not meant to be used to describe other wall coverings, otherwise, one would not install "paneling", one would install "drywall", because it goes up dry. One would not install T&G rough sawn cedar (like in my house's family room), one would install "drywall", as it is also "dry" and was used for the "walls".

    If 'drywall' were used for mobile home ceilings, I am sure there would be cracks all over it from movement during transportation.



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    You're wrong.

    Mobile Home Repair - Interiors is just one example of the use of the term "drywall" in mobile homes, and of the use of sheetrock in mobile homes.
    You are correct, I was wrong ...

    HOWEVER, that only applies to "newer" mobile homes (his term, not mine).

    Did you read the link you posted?

    Only "newer" mobile homes have drywall, the older ones have those acoustical panels.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Rob, from your source
    Ceilings. Along with floors and walls, ceilings has been busy laying panels out on a jig and setting pre-assembled trusses in place. Trusses are nailed to perimeter 2 x 4's and held in place by wood strips at the centerline and at a couple of other places. The point where the bottom of the truss rests on top of the ceiling panel is sprayed with a quick setting foam adhesive. The ceiling is sized to go from outside edge to outside edge of the house so the edge of the panel rests on the wall. Do we begin to see how repairing or replacing a ceiling panel can be a challenge? If the ceiling is to be textured, it is picked up and moved to a spray/paint area where someone can walk around under it and apply the appropriate coating(s). Finally it is moved to an area where the holes for electrical outlets, ceiling fans etc. are cut and the electrical boxes installed.
    I vote for ceiling panel as a catch all phrase. Even if gypsum board is used, it is placed in panels and typically is not taped and bedded as site built homes.

    To get back on track with Brian's question. By the context of the question "drywall" would only be the correct term in the broadest sense of the word. I think Brian would have known the term if what he saw was drywall (gypsum). I immediately thought of the fibrous material I am used to seeing in older mobile homes. About 16" wide panel that stretches from one side to the other and has plastic trim to cover the nails/staples and is about an inch and a half thick.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Jim,

    You can vote for and use any term you wish, but for myself, I don't want to put anything in my reports that I can't reference. I'm not certain I can use your vote as a reference if I get dragged into court.

    On the site I referenced, the only generic term used for wall and ceiling materials is drywall. On Dan Friedman's site, which is widely regarded as THE home inspection reference, the only terms used for interior walls are paneling and drywall (copied below).


    INTERIOR DEFECTS Defects in Mobile Homes
    • 32% of mobile homes report problems with windows or doors (C.R. survey)
    • Hardboard floors - get wet, toilet falls through; plywood preferred; check especially floors at baths, kitchens, and below windows and doors
    • Walls: paneling or drywall
    • Windows: often single-glazed, glued or screwed frames (leaky); welded vinyl perform better; caulking often missing between window frames and sheathing (water damage) - same at doors; Caulk at door and window gaps (from factory) may break during transport;
    I will agree the term drywall is used most often in the trades to describe a gypsum-based panel, but until I find something better, I'll continue to use it to describe any wall/ceiling material that isn't paneling or plaster.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Rob, from your source


    I vote for ceiling panel as a catch all phrase. Even if gypsum board is used, it is placed in panels and typically is not taped and bedded as site built homes.

    To get back on track with Brian's question. By the context of the question "drywall" would only be the correct term in the broadest sense of the word. I think Brian would have known the term if what he saw was drywall (gypsum). I immediately thought of the fibrous material I am used to seeing in older mobile homes. About 16" wide panel that stretches from one side to the other and has plastic trim to cover the nails/staples and is about an inch and a half thick.



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    On the site I referenced, the only generic term used for wall and ceiling materials is drywall.
    Quite incorrect. (Or, should I say "You are wrong."?)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    From the link you provided:

    See the page on vinyl covered panels

    That means the ceiling panels extend over the top of the walls and that individual panels are glued to the trusses.

    If you have to replace a ceiling panel you have to cut the old one out and then bend the replacement to slide it into place, nail/glue it in place, tape the seams, and match the texture.

    It is complicated by the fact the old panels will have various amounts of dust and dirt on them and so a color match with the new panel is difficult.

    As far as I know, replacements for the 4' x 14' ceiling panels are impossible to find.

    Newer Homes. Repairing the ceiling in new homes is quite a challenge and requires work that is best done by experienced people. To do it well you are going to have to remove & replace a large, heavy, fragile sheet of drywall.

    Older homes. Mobile home supply stores sell replacement ceiling panels for homes that have the flat panel ceilings with the plastic strips every 16" inches. Note that in spite of what it looks like these are 4' x 14' panels.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Those are from the link you provided: the generic term used is "ceiling panel".

    The term "drywall" was used to describe the TYPE of "ceiling panel" in "newer" homes.

    I will agree the term drywall is used most often in the trades to describe a gypsum-based panel, but until I find something better, I'll continue to use it to describe any wall/ceiling material that isn't paneling or plaster.
    And any reasonably smart monkey (the ones who do repairs) can make you look pretty silly calling something which is not "drywall" ... "drywall".

    Your choice, though.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    The only thing that is guaranteed to make me look silly is for me to give consideration to your merciless flights of fancy in the name of elucidation.

    And by the way, calling tradesmen who do honest work "monkeys" is vulgar and contemptuous.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Quite incorrect. (Or, should I say "You are wrong."?)

    And any reasonably smart monkey (the ones who do repairs) can make you look pretty silly calling something which is not "drywall" ... "drywall".

    Your choice, though.



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Rob, I did not mean to pizz in your Wheaties. I just offered the term "ceiling panel" that was used in your referenced source as a non-controversial term that is easily understood by layman. "Ceiling panel" is going to be understood as a... well, ceiling panel, whereas Drywall has an understood meaning in the general public and trades as gypsum board, Sheetrock, rock, etc. We all want to be precise in our reports, but sometimes I find describing something in specific terms, especially when I can't see the actual elements can be counter productive. If I were to use drywall to describe a panel that was later discovered to be vinyl covered wood or a pressed wood product, I could have unhappy customers.

    I try to report what I see in layman's terms unless a more technical explanation is needed. You might be able to back up what you mean in court if you use "drywall" to describe a ceiling panel, but why would you want to defend anything in court if you could avoid it altogether?
    KISS - Keep It Simple Saints, was a term a former pastor used. Of course the final S was changed from a derogatory term.
    I found out a long time ago trying to impress someone with my vast vocabulary was counter productive to reaching my goal, unless I was just trying to impress rather than inform.
    JMHO
    Jim

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    I do thank all for their input but I too try to put all terminology in common folks terms. Remember we are dealing with home owners who want to be informed and educated not dazzled with our BS. If our customers were general contractor or other trades man then the total proper terminology should be used. I remember in school when we were learning new things our teachers would relate what we are learning to what we can understand and then educate us as to the proper terminology.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Jim,

    I didn't perceive your previous message to be offensive in the least.

    Your question: You might be able to back up what you mean in court if you use "drywall" to describe a ceiling panel, but why would you want to defend anything in court if you could avoid it altogether? is a non-sequitur. I want to be able to support everything I write in court, and I never want to have to.

    Your statement: If I were to use drywall to describe a panel that was later discovered to be vinyl covered wood or a pressed wood product, I could have unhappy customers. begs the question: Why would you ever describe "paneling" as "drywall". If it's wood, it's wood. If it's an engineered wood panel, it's paneling.

    Your observation: I found out a long time ago trying to impress someone with my vast vocabulary was counter productive to reaching my goal, unless I was just trying to impress rather than inform. leads me to wonder: What could be a less impressive or more generic term than "drywall"?

    In contrast to Peck, I don't care at all if you agree with me, and I have no interest in changing anyone's mind about anything. AND ... if you can provide better information than I already possess, I will take it and use it. I just won't be swayed by unsubstantiated opinions.

    RT






    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Rob, I did not mean to pizz in your Wheaties. I just offered the term "ceiling panel" that was used in your referenced source as a non-controversial term that is easily understood by layman. "Ceiling panel" is going to be understood as a... well, ceiling panel, whereas Drywall has an understood meaning in the general public and trades as gypsum board, Sheetrock, rock, etc. We all want to be precise in our reports, but sometimes I find describing something in specific terms, especially when I can't see the actual elements can be counter productive. If I were to use drywall to describe a panel that was later discovered to be vinyl covered wood or a pressed wood product, I could have unhappy customers.

    I try to report what I see in layman's terms unless a more technical explanation is needed. You might be able to back up what you mean in court if you use "drywall" to describe a ceiling panel, but why would you want to defend anything in court if you could avoid it altogether?
    KISS - Keep It Simple Saints, was a term a former pastor used. Of course the final S was changed from a derogatory term.
    I found out a long time ago trying to impress someone with my vast vocabulary was counter productive to reaching my goal, unless I was just trying to impress rather than inform.
    JMHO
    Jim



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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    In contrast to Peck, I don't care at all if you agree with me,
    Rob,

    I don't care if you agree with me either. YOU said "the only generic term used for wall and ceiling materials is drywall" and that was incorrect.

    and I have no interest in changing anyone's mind about anything.
    Unfortunately, that's NOT how you help improve someone's knowledge.

    First, you provide them more information on the subject at hand, sometimes it's as simple as taking the horse to the water for a drink. Other times, though, you have to encourage the horse to look down at the water and see that they are already standing at the watering hole, and then help them drink, yet other times, it comes down to either drowning the horse or letting it die of dehydration.

    Sometimes a 'near drowning' will wake the horse up enough for it to drink.

    Other times, the horse is just basically already dead and refuses to drink.

    AND ... if you can provide better information than I already possess, I will take it and use it.
    Gee, that's a good one Rob. YOU provided a link, I copied some information from your link that YOU apparently had not read. YOU still refuse to take it and use it.

    And it was from YOUR LINK????

    The horse is apparently already basically dead and refuses to drink the water it lead me to.

    Rob to Jerry: "You're wrong."

    Jerry to Rob: "You are correct, I was wrong ..."

    versus

    Jerry to Rob: "Quite incorrect. (Or, should I say "You are wrong."?)"

    Rob to Jerry: "In contrast to Peck, ... "

    You are quite right there Rob, that was a definite contrast to me and how I responded to you when being corrected ... (sigh)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Main Entry: non se·qui·tur
    Pronunciation: 'nän-'se-kw&-t&r also -"tur
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin, it does not follow
    1 : an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent
    2 : a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said
    Your question: You might be able to back up what you mean in court if you use "drywall" to describe a ceiling panel, but why would you want to defend anything in court if you could avoid it altogether? is a non-sequitur. I want to be able to support everything I write in court, and I never want to have to.
    Rob, I will admit I had to look up your $10 word.
    Sorry I did not make myself clear enough for you to follow my logic.
    My point was this; why use a word that is not clear to the layman (but might be defensible in court) when using a more common descriptive term that is easily understood might negate the need to be defended?

    Your statement: If I were to use drywall to describe a panel that was later discovered to be vinyl covered wood or a pressed wood product, I could have unhappy customers. begs the question: Why would you ever describe "paneling" as "drywall". If it's wood, it's wood. If it's an engineered wood panel, it's paneling.
    Trying to visualize using drywall as a generic term for something that was not a known commodity. Without damaging the surface, there is no way to determine the substrate... thus using drywall (your term) to describe a ceiling panel. Note the "later discovered to be..." phrase.

    Your observation: I found out a long time ago trying to impress someone with my vast vocabulary was counter productive to reaching my goal, unless I was just trying to impress rather than inform. leads me to wonder: What could be a less impressive or more generic term than "drywall"?

    A more generic term than drywall in this case would be "ceiling panel" since it would include any type of ceiling covering that is in panel form, including drywall, metal, wood, plastic, as well as any other as yet undefined substance that mobile home makers can come up with.

    Not meaning to be argumentative here, just wanting to clear up any misunderstanding

    Last edited by Jim Luttrall; 08-01-2007 at 05:33 PM.
    Jim Luttrall
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Rob, I will admit I had to look up your $10 word.
    Sorry I did not make myself clear enough for you to follow my logic.
    My point was this; why use a word that is not clear to the layman (but might be defensible in court) when using a more common descriptive term that is easily understood might negate the need to be defended?

    Hi Jim,

    Non sequitur isn't an unusual term, and I don't think there's any term that more readily describes a break in logic.

    Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post, but in this area, drywall isn't a term people identify with gypsum wallboard. In this area, that word is "sheetrock". Drywall is generally understood here to mean "not plaster".


    Trying to visualize using drywall as a generic term for something that was not a known commodity. Without damaging the surface, there is no way to determine the substrate... thus using drywall (your term) to describe a ceiling panel. Note the "later discovered to be..." phrase.

    Are you kidding? In a mobile home, any time paneling is used it is stapled, and the staple holes are readily apparent. On top of that, one push between studs and paneling will flex easily. Paneling screams at you when you walk in the door.

    When sheetrock is used in a mobile home, plastic T-mold is used, or the joints are finished with tape and mud. PLUS, the closets are never finished, and when you pull the cover from the water-heater closet, you can see the back side of the wall material. It isn't difficult at all to tell what it is.

    Ceilings that are installed with those screws-and-buttons are a weaker material, the composition of which may be paper and/or fiber. I agree that drywall is not the best term for that, but it works here.


    A more generic term than drywall in this case would be "ceiling panel" since it would include any type of ceiling covering that is in panel form, including drywall, metal, wood, plastic, as well as any other as yet undefined substance that mobile home makers can come up with.

    I'll give you "ceiling panel" as a more descriptive term for the saggy material that was in older mobile homes, but I wouldn't use it to describe sheetrock, which is used in many mobile homes these days, including the one I inspected yesterday.

    Not meaning to be argumentative here, just wanting to clear up any misunderstanding
    I don't mind an argument, when someone has a good one. You do.

    RT


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    That may be true. Back in the day, we referred to those gray utility panels that are made from newspaper mulch simply as homasote. It's a very heavy material, though, so I'm not sure it was used in mobile homes.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kelly View Post
    I think alot of it is made by Homasote.



  21. #21
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    Brian E Kelly, How old was this place?


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    I think it's more like just large acoustical ceiling panels - kind of like acoustical ceiling tiles. I think.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  23. #23
    Brian E Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mobile home ceiling material?????

    The mobile home was manufactured 21 years ago.


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