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  1. #1
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    Default bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
    You know the routine.
    On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
    The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
    I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
    I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
    Markus,

    Excellent photos of what can happen.

    To download the photos from IN, click on the thumbnail, after it opens through the magic of Brian's software, click the photo and it will (at least they do on my Google Chrome) open in a new tab, now right click over the photo and select 'save image as' or whatever wording it says indicating that you can save it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Yes people knock into them with boxes and I also ask them to not use metal pull chains on them which might conduct electricity if threaded side is live and exposed by busted porcelain.

    Article 410 Luminaries (Lighting Fixture), Lampholders, and Lamps


    Article 410.8 (B) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Permitted. Listed. The following types of light fixtures shall be permitted to be installed in a closet. Closets (Clothes and storage) eight ( square feet (0.74 m) or larger one of the following type of light fixtures shall be installed:

    1. A recessed incandescent fixture with a completely enclosed lamp operated by a wall switch.

    2. A surface mounted or recessed fluorescent fixture with a completely enclosed tube(s) operated by a wall switch.

    410.8 (C) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Not Permitted. The following fixtures are not permitted:
    1. Surface mounted incandescent fixture with enclosed, partially enclosed or open bulbs.
    2. Pendant Style
    3. Lampholders

    Exception:
    Walk-in closets of larger area where no storage exists within forty (40) inches (1016 mm) in any direction of a vertical line extending from the floor to ceiling, away from the wall, incandescent fixtures with totally enclosed bulb(s) may be used. Said light fixtures shall be operated by a wall switch.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Thanks, Marcus. Here's one from my library.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Its not only closet lights. Pot lights above shelving or even interior doors under pot lights can be of concern.

    Good find Markus.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    How did your write your statement
    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
    You know the routine.
    On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
    The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
    I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
    I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.



  7. #7
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    my boilerplate Bare bulb fixtures are present in the home.We recommend globed fixture installation for safety.
    There are dangers associated with light fixture bulbs that are not covered with a globe in an area like a closet. These bare light bulbs often get very hot and can become an ignition source to start a fire in your home. These light bulbs are usually found in attics, closets and crawl spaces. The worst case scenario usually is a closet light. This will either be a plastic or porcelain light fixture, with or without a pull chain.
    The danger starts when this hot bulb is either placed too close to combustible materials and they touch or nearly touch the light bulb, or something in the closet falls off of a shelf and right into contact with the bulb.
    By installing a light fixture that has a glass globe, the combustible materials will not be able to come into contact with the light bulb, thus nearly eliminating the chance of a fixture starting a fire. Be sure to leave ample room around light fixtures when storing thing s in a closet. This will lessen the dangers of a fire and bring you peace of mind.



  8. #8
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    WOW! Thank You


  9. #9

    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

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    Welmoed Sisson
    Inspections by Bob, LLC, Boyds, MD
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.
    That would not make my Report.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  11. #11

    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    That would not make my Report.
    Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

    Welmoed Sisson
    Inspections by Bob, LLC, Boyds, MD
    "Given sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.
    Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide


    MAKE WATTS TYPE of BULB TEMP (F) @ 12" TEMP (F) of Lamp Fixture
    2 min 5 min 10 min 2 min 5 min 10min
    ZooMed 150 Infra-red Spot 149 159 171 77 80 82
    ZooMed 160 MV Flood 'Powersun' 96 106 115 85 95 102
    Westron 160 MV Flood 'MegaRay SB' 98 112 128 74 77 84
    ESU 150 Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL' 143 164 165 100 118 118
    ESU 150 Incandescent 'Brightlight' 191 209 218 75 77 79
    ZooMed 150 Flood 'Basking Lamp' 181 186 195 105 114 123
    ZooMed 100 MV Flood 'Powersun' 118 131 136 98 116 118
    T Rex 100 MV Spot 'Active UV Heat' 93 114 136 84 102 113
    ESU 100 Incandescent 'Nightlight' 134 150 152 78 80 83
    ESU 100 Incandescent 'Brightlight' 165 188 194 77 79 81
    ACE 100 Halogen Flood 205 226 226 77 82 86
    ZooMed 100 Ceramic Heat Emitter 101 127 140 75 99 104
    GE 100 Halogen Spot Lamp 158 257 271 75 82 87
    GE 100 Halogen Flood Lamp 128 178 187 74 86 88
    GE 75 Incandescent Spot 'Black Light' 92 101 103 89 96 97
    GE 60 Incandescent 'Black Light' 102 109 112 93 94 105
    GE 60 Incandescent Clear Glass 169 176 178 75 81 86
    Westron 60 Inline MV Flood Lamp 95 97 103 90 93 98
    Westron 60 Inline MV Spot Lamp 130 146 150
    Westron 60 Heat Emitter 98 112 130 77 79 80
    GE 50 Halogen Spot Lamp 185 193 196 76 85 88
    GE 50 Halogen Flood Lamp 123 138 141 74 78 81


    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 08-13-2013 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Temp. Chart
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Welmoed

    Wise to have mentioned the concern.

    As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.






  14. #14
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Welmoed

    Wise to have mentioned the concern.

    As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.
    The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
    * put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
    ** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

    Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

    http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

    Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

    Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

    http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

    Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.
    Published by the World Renowned Expert Philip Austin ?
    * hope things pickup for ya Raymond.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    For your further edification.

    The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    For your further edification.

    The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.
    Thanks Ray, I'll take that under advisement.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

    So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

    After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
    302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

    Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

    You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
    * put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
    ** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

    So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

    After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
    302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

    Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

    You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.
    Ray, Ray, Ray,

    My post have been on a wire touching the fixture and bottom of a bulb in a Supply Closet.
    *not a cloths closet with a foam pillow stuffed around it.
    ** find something else to Fret About ( have you had your Meds Checked as of late? )

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

    If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

    http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...eat-output.htm


  22. #22
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    That would not make my Report.
    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide


    WATTS TYPE of BULB TEMP (F) @ 12" TEMP (F) of Lamp Fixture
    2 min 5 min 10 min 2 min 5 min 10min
    ZooMed 150 Infra-red Spot 149 159 171 77 80 82
    ZooMed 160 MV Flood 'Powersun' 96 106 115 85 95 102
    Westron 160 MV Flood 'MegaRay SB' 98 112 128 74 77 84
    ESU 150 Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL' 143 164 165 100 118 118
    ESU 150 Incandescent 'Brightlight' 191 209 218 75 77 79
    ZooMed 150 Flood 'Basking Lamp' 181 186 195 105 114 123
    ZooMed 100 MV Flood 'Powersun' 118 131 136 98 116 118
    T Rex 100 MV Spot 'Active UV Heat' 93 114 136 84 102 113
    ESU 100 Incandescent 'Nightlight' 134 150 152 78 80 83
    ESU 100 Incandescent 'Brightlight' 165 188 194 77 79 81
    ACE 100 Halogen Flood 205 226 226 77 82 86
    ZooMed 100 Ceramic Heat Emitter 101 127 140 75 99 104
    GE 100 Halogen Spot Lamp 158 257 271 75 82 87
    GE 100 Halogen Flood Lamp 128 178 187 74 86 88
    GE 75 Incandescent Spot 'Black Light' 92 101 103 89 96 97
    GE 60 Incandescent 'Black Light' 102 109 112 93 94 105
    GE 60 Incandescent Clear Glass 169 176 178 75 81 86
    Westron 60 Inline MV Flood Lamp 95 97 103 90 93 98
    Westron 60 Inline MV Spot Lamp 130 146 150
    Westron 60 Heat Emitter 98 112 130 77 79 80
    GE 50 Halogen Spot Lamp 185 193 196 76 85 88
    GE 50 Halogen Flood Lamp 123 138 141 74 78 81
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

    If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

    http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...eat-output.htm
    Here in The US of A we read / or listen to what was said.
    * please try that .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    This is from the 2008 NEC.
    - 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
    - - (A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
    - - - (1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp
    - - - (2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
    - - - (3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area
    - - (B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
    - - (C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:
    - - - (1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
    - - - (2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
    - - - (3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling
    - - - (4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling
    - - - (5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.

    http://ask-the-electrician.com/electrical/electrical-code/lighting-code.html


  24. #24
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    This is from the 2008 NEC.
    - 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
    Thanks Ray,
    Now what about Utility ( Service ) Closet Requirements ?
    *you did read utility closet , Right ?

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

    More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
    * put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
    ** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

    More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.
    " put whatever makes you comfortable in your report."
    *again please read what is posted .

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    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 08-17-2013 at 06:46 PM. Reason: again added
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
    Euripides


  28. #28
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
    Euripides
    Ray, Ray, Ray,

    If you would just read the post before assuming you ( and only you ) have an answer.
    * don't let me keep you from your "Important Research."

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    A simple cartoon for a simple person.
    Thank You Raymond.
    * Such ,Style, Flare, Class, (in a short bus kinda way.)
    ** nighty night Buddy.

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