Thread: bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
You know the routine.
On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.

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Originally Posted by Markus Keller

I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.

Markus,

Excellent photos of what can happen.

To download the photos from IN, click on the thumbnail, after it opens through the magic of Brian's software, click the photo and it will (at least they do on my Google Chrome) open in a new tab, now right click over the photo and select 'save image as' or whatever wording it says indicating that you can save it.

Yes people knock into them with boxes and I also ask them to not use metal pull chains on them which might conduct electricity if threaded side is live and exposed by busted porcelain.

Article 410 Luminaries (Lighting Fixture), Lampholders, and Lamps

Article 410.8 (B) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Permitted. Listed. The following types of light fixtures shall be permitted to be installed in a closet. Closets (Clothes and storage) eight ( square feet (0.74 m²) or larger one of the following type of light fixtures shall be installed:

1. A recessed incandescent fixture with a completely enclosed lamp operated by a wall switch.

2. A surface mounted or recessed fluorescent fixture with a completely enclosed tube(s) operated by a wall switch.

410.8 (C) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Not Permitted. The following fixtures are not permitted:
1. Surface mounted incandescent fixture with enclosed, partially enclosed or open bulbs.
2. Pendant Style
3. Lampholders

Exception:
Walk-in closets of larger area where no storage exists within forty (40) inches (1016 mm) in any direction of a vertical line extending from the floor to ceiling, away from the wall, incandescent fixtures with totally enclosed bulb(s) may be used. Said light fixtures shall be operated by a wall switch.

Thanks, Marcus. Here's one from my library.

Its not only closet lights. Pot lights above shelving or even interior doors under pot lights can be of concern.

Good find Markus.

How did your write your statement

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
You know the routine.
On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.

my boilerplate Bare bulb fixtures are present in the home.We recommend globed fixture installation for safety.
There are dangers associated with light fixture bulbs that are not covered with a globe in an area like a closet. These bare light bulbs often get very hot and can become an ignition source to start a fire in your home. These light bulbs are usually found in attics, closets and crawl spaces. The worst case scenario usually is a closet light. This will either be a plastic or porcelain light fixture, with or without a pull chain.
The danger starts when this hot bulb is either placed too close to combustible materials and they touch or nearly touch the light bulb, or something in the closet falls off of a shelf and right into contact with the bulb.
By installing a light fixture that has a glass globe, the combustible materials will not be able to come into contact with the light bulb, thus nearly eliminating the chance of a fixture starting a fire. Be sure to leave ample room around light fixtures when storing thing s in a closet. This will lessen the dangers of a fire and bring you peace of mind.

WOW! Thank You

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

That would not make my Report.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

That would not make my Report.

Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide

MAKE	WATTS	TYPE of BULB	TEMP (°F) @ 12"			TEMP (°F) of Lamp Fixture
			2 min	5 min	10 min	2 min	5 min	10min
ZooMed	150	Infra-red Spot	149	159	171	77	80	82
ZooMed	160	MV Flood 'Powersun'	96	106	115	85	95	102
Westron	160	MV Flood 'MegaRay SB'	98	112	128	74	77	84
ESU	150	Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL'	143	164	165	100	118	118
ESU	150	Incandescent 'Brightlight'	191	209	218	75	77	79
ZooMed	150	Flood 'Basking Lamp'	181	186	195	105	114	123
ZooMed	100	MV Flood 'Powersun'	118	131	136	98	116	118
T Rex	100	MV Spot 'Active UV Heat'	93	114	136	84	102	113
ESU	100	Incandescent 'Nightlight'	134	150	152	78	80	83
ESU	100	Incandescent 'Brightlight'	165	188	194	77	79	81
ACE	100	Halogen Flood	205	226	226	77	82	86
ZooMed	100	Ceramic Heat Emitter	101	127	140	75	99	104
GE	100	Halogen Spot Lamp	158	257	271	75	82	87
GE	100	Halogen Flood Lamp	128	178	187	74	86	88
GE	75	Incandescent Spot 'Black Light'	92	101	103	89	96	97
GE	60	Incandescent 'Black Light'	102	109	112	93	94	105
GE	60	Incandescent Clear Glass	169	176	178	75	81	86
Westron	60	Inline MV Flood Lamp	95	97	103	90	93	98
Westron	60	Inline MV Spot Lamp	130	146	150
Westron	60	Heat Emitter	98	112	130	77	79	80
GE	50	Halogen Spot Lamp	185	193	196	76	85	88
GE	50	Halogen Flood Lamp	123	138	141	74	78	81

Welmoed

Wise to have mentioned the concern.

As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Welmoed

Wise to have mentioned the concern.

As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.

Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.

Published by the World Renowned Expert Philip Austin ?
* hope things pickup for ya Raymond.

For your further edification.

The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

For your further edification.

The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.

Thanks Ray, I'll take that under advisement.

Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.

Ray, Ray, Ray,

My post have been on a wire touching the fixture and bottom of a bulb in a Supply Closet.
*not a cloths closet with a foam pillow stuffed around it.
** find something else to Fret About ( have you had your Meds Checked as of late? )

If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...eat-output.htm

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

That would not make my Report.

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide

WATTS	TYPE of BULB	TEMP (°F) @ 12"			TEMP (°F) of Lamp Fixture
		2 min	5 min	10 min	2 min	5 min	10min
ZooMed	150	Infra-red Spot	149	159	171	77	80	82
ZooMed	160	MV Flood 'Powersun'	96	106	115	85	95	102
Westron	160	MV Flood 'MegaRay SB'	98	112	128	74	77	84
ESU	150	Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL'	143	164	165	100	118	118
ESU	150	Incandescent 'Brightlight'	191	209	218	75	77	79
ZooMed	150	Flood 'Basking Lamp'	181	186	195	105	114	123
ZooMed	100	MV Flood 'Powersun'	118	131	136	98	116	118
T Rex	100	MV Spot 'Active UV Heat'	93	114	136	84	102	113
ESU	100	Incandescent 'Nightlight'	134	150	152	78	80	83
ESU	100	Incandescent 'Brightlight'	165	188	194	77	79	81
ACE	100	Halogen Flood	205	226	226	77	82	86
ZooMed	100	Ceramic Heat Emitter	101	127	140	75	99	104
GE	100	Halogen Spot Lamp	158	257	271	75	82	87
GE	100	Halogen Flood Lamp	128	178	187	74	86	88
GE	75	Incandescent Spot 'Black Light'	92	101	103	89	96	97
GE	60	Incandescent 'Black Light'	102	109	112	93	94	105
GE	60	Incandescent Clear Glass	169	176	178	75	81	86
Westron	60	Inline MV Flood Lamp	95	97	103	90	93	98
Westron	60	Inline MV Spot Lamp	130	146	150
Westron	60	Heat Emitter	98	112	130	77	79	80
GE	50	Halogen Spot Lamp	185	193	196	76	85	88
GE	50	Halogen Flood Lamp	123	138	141	74	78	81

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...eat-output.htm

Here in The US of A we read / or listen to what was said.
* please try that .

This is from the 2008 NEC.
- 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
- - (A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
- - - (1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp
- - - (2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
- - - (3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area
- - (B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
- - (C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:
- - - (1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
- - - (2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
- - - (3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling
- - - (4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling
- - - (5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.

http://ask-the-electrician.com/electrical/electrical-code/lighting-code.html

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

This is from the 2008 NEC.
- 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.

Thanks Ray,
Now what about Utility ( Service ) Closet Requirements ?
*you did read utility closet , Right ?

The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.

" put whatever makes you comfortable in your report."
*again please read what is posted .

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
―

Euripides

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
―

Euripides

Ray, Ray, Ray,

If you would just read the post before assuming you ( and only you ) have an answer.
* don't let me keep you from your "Important Research."

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

A simple cartoon for a simple person.

Thank You Raymond.
* Such ,Style, Flare, Class, (in a short bus kinda way.)
** nighty night Buddy.