Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    I inspected a house today built in 1996 and one interior set of French Doors had glass panels. I suspect this is safety glass, however there was no visible etching on the glass panes to determine if they were in fact safety glass. Question, in the mid-1990's were there some safety glass that was not identified? When did the identification etching of safety glass begin?

    Member Benefits1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Abram View Post
    No etching no safety glass. It is as simple as that.
    Hi Jim, the reason I was asking is I believe on a multi-pane door (door with several glass panels) that on that type of door, if the glass panels are less than one square foot each, no etching is required. I may be wrong about that however, but I believe it is in the IRC. But like I said, I could be wrong.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    From - Safety Glazing | The ASHI Reporter | Inspection News & Views from the American Society of Home Inspectors
    In 1972, the U.S. Congress enacted the Consumer Product Safety Act, which created a new government agency, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC). When it opened its (glass) doors in 1973, one of its first tasks was to address the hazards of glass. Though armed with the ANSI standard, the commission went beyond it, and developed a two-tiered standard. A person will typically bear more of his or her body weight in impact with a large piece of glass than he or she would with a smaller piece. The CPSC standards resulted in Class I glass rated at 150 foot pounds of impact, and Class II rated at 400 pounds. These became part of CPSC 16 CFR 1201, and they became law on July 6, 1977. These designations may sound familiar, as they are seen on the identifying “bug” used in tempered glazing today (see Figure 1).
    And I think this speaks to your actual question -
    The ANSI standard has since changed and now includes three impact categories. Classes A & B are similar to CPSC’s Category I & II, and Class C has the 100-pound rating. This voluntary standard did not require the classification to be marked on the glass until the 2004 edition.


    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Question, in the mid-1990's were there some safety glass that was not identified?
    Still is that way if ...
    - From the 2012 IRC
    - - R308.1.1 Identification of multiple assemblies. - - - Multipane assemblies having individual panes not exceeding 1 square foot (0.09 m2) in exposed area shall have at least one pane in the assembly identified in accordance with Section R308.1. All other panes in the assembly shall be labeled "CPSC 16 CFR 1201” or "ANSI Z97.1” as appropriate.

    ... did you check all the panes?

    When did the identification etching of safety glass begin?
    Probably since the beginning of it being required, as I recall, it was first required in Los Angeles around 1965, give or take a couple of years.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    The bottom line remains though, if there is no "bug" on the glass the only way to know is with the "hammer test" .

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Still is that way if ...
    - From the 2012 IRC
    - - R308.1.1 Identification of multiple assemblies. - - - Multipane assemblies having individual panes not exceeding 1 square foot (0.09 m2) in exposed area shall have at least one pane in the assembly identified in accordance with Section R308.1. All other panes in the assembly shall be labeled "CPSC 16 CFR 1201” or "ANSI Z97.1” as appropriate.

    ... did you check all the panes?



    Probably since the beginning of it being required, as I recall, it was first required in Los Angeles around 1965, give or take a couple of years.
    Hi Jerry, No I did not check every pane, just 3 or 4 because at the time I did not realize that only one pane might have the ID etching. After checking a few, I thought none would have it, but maybe a bottom pane might have the etching. Thanks, Gene


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    The bottom line remains though, if there is no "bug" on the glass the only way to know is with the "hammer test" .
    Exactly what I told everyone - the hammer test:
    - If it was (past tense) safety glass it will need to be replaced.
    - If it was not (past tense again) safety glass it needed to be replaced anyway.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Hi Jerry, No I did not check every pane, just 3 or 4 because at the time I did not realize that only one pane might have the ID etching. After checking a few, I thought none would have it, but maybe a bottom pane might have the etching. Thanks, Gene
    I got caught by surprise too when I first found that section and allowance for one pane to be identified.

    I was in my third day of inspecting a house which had 40 pairs or 15 panel French doors and happened to find that section at night while working on the items already found, the next day I had to check all 80 doors and, sure enough, one bottom pane in each door was identified.

    But, as Jim said - the only way to know for sure is the hammer test. Was it as was it not, only the hammer knows (to the tune of 'does she or doesn't she, only the hairdresser knows')

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Exactly what I told everyone - the hammer test:
    - If it was (past tense) safety glass it will need to be replaced.
    - If it was not (past tense again) safety glass it needed to be replaced anyway.
    Ok, I will take a hammer to my next inspection. Does the IRC require a certain weight hammer on this test and how many foot-pounds of impact force should I apply. If I cannot find the right hammer, would a baseball bat be sufficient on this test?


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Jerry, I hope you know I was just joking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Ok, I will take a hammer to my next inspection. Does the IRC require a certain weight hammer on this test and how many foot-pounds of impact force should I apply. If I cannot find the right hammer, would a baseball bat be sufficient on this test?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Jerry, I hope you know I was just joking.
    Oh, Dang! I just spent an hour looking for my certified and calibrated tempered glass testing hammer ...

    Gene, yes, I knew you meant to put a smiley on your post.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tyler, Texas
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    I inspected a house today built in 1996 and one interior set of French Doors had glass panels. I suspect this is safety glass, however there was no visible etching on the glass panes to determine if they were in fact safety glass. Question, in the mid-1990's were there some safety glass that was not identified? When did the identification etching of safety glass begin?
    I have a friend in the custom glass business here in Tyler Texas. In regard to the safety bug imprint; he says he normally orders glass with two imprints per each glass piece, however if the client requests no imprint on the glass then that's what they get.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Thanks Ken, Gene
    Quote Originally Posted by ken flournoy View Post
    I have a friend in the custom glass business here in Tyler Texas. In regard to the safety bug imprint; he says he normally orders glass with two imprints per each glass piece, however if the client requests no imprint on the glass then that's what they get.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Identification of safety glass in doors and windows

    Quote Originally Posted by ken flournoy View Post
    ... however if the client requests no imprint on the glass then that's what they get.
    Which is why the hammer test was invented.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •