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  1. #1
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    Default R3.1 conversion code

    This isn't necessarily a HI question. Anyway...,
    I'm in conversation with my plan check Dept and being told that in a R3.1 conversion that "all the doors in the house" have to be 20 min? Closets, bathrooms etc... I get that in non-am with <6 occupants that the doors to the bedrooms have to be 32" and 20 min, but closets?
    I'm wondering if any of you interpret this code as they do...

    From plan check desk..
    Marc, see attached for non-ambulatory clients.

    Our interpretation is that when the code states the hallway “shall be separated from the rest of the house” it includes the bedrooms therefore a door is not only required from the living room to the house to be solid core, but all the doors leading to the hallway (bedroom doors, bathroom doors, closet doors, etc.) need to be solid core. These doors also need to be maintained self-closing or shall be automatic closing by actuation of smoke detector as noted in the code.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: R3.1 conversion code

    Mind posting what R3.1 says, and what code the R3.1 is from and what it is for?

    Typically, an 'R' would indicate a 'Residential' code and it sounds like you are referring to a 'Building' code structure.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: R3.1 conversion code

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Mind posting what R3.1 says, and what code the R3.1 is from and what it is for?

    Typically, an 'R' would indicate a 'Residential' code and it sounds like you are referring to a 'Building' code structure.
    You bet. It's the conversion of SFR to 24 hour care facility.
    SECTION R325
    SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR LICENSED
    24-HOUR CARE FACILITIES IN A GROUP R-3.1
    R325.1 Scope. The provisions of this section shall apply to
    24-hour care facilities in a Group R-3.1 occupancy licensed
    by a governmental agency.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: R3.1 conversion code

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    From plan check desk..
    Marc, see attached for non-ambulatory clients.

    Our interpretation is that when the code states the hallway “shall be separated from the rest of the house” ...
    Marc,

    Ask him/her where that wording is in the R325 they are referencing.

    I looked up the code ( https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code....2013.02.5.pdf ) and did a search/find for the phrase “shall be separated from the rest of the house” and that phrase was not found.

    I then did a search for a partial phrase “shall be separated” and found some references, but not what he/she was referencing.

    I find it strange that they would want to "separate" the rooms from the hallway when there is no "separation" (no fire-resistance rating) for the floor/ceiling to a floor above or to a stairway to the floor above, it only calls for what is essentially smoke containment from floor to a floor above.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: R3.1 conversion code

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Marc,

    Ask him/her where that wording is in the R325 they are referencing.

    I looked up the code ( https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code....2013.02.5.pdf ) and did a search/find for the phrase “shall be separated from the rest of the house” and that phrase was not found.

    I then did a search for a partial phrase “shall be separated” and found some references, but not what he/she was referencing.

    I find it strange that they would want to "separate" the rooms from the hallway when there is no "separation" (no fire-resistance rating) for the floor/ceiling to a floor above or to a stairway to the floor above, it only calls for what is essentially smoke containment from floor to a floor above.
    I have a meeting with planning today. I found it interesting how she interpreted that code in that manner. Not only are they separating the rooms, but she wants the "closet doors" to be 20 min as well, fully gasketed AND self closing. Thats just one... she has us placing balustrades within the guard rails for ADA ramps. Our drawings show them as upper and lower rails (lower for wheelchair safety) not with verticals. I think she's applying the CRC for that one.
    I wouldn't normally bring this stuff in here but i thought i was missing something in the code.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: R3.1 conversion code

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I have a meeting with planning today. I found it interesting how she interpreted that code in that manner. Not only are they separating the rooms, but she wants the "closet doors" to be 20 min as well, fully gasketed AND self closing. Thats just one... she has us placing balustrades within the guard rails for ADA ramps. Our drawings show them as upper and lower rails (lower for wheelchair safety) not with verticals. I think she's applying the CRC for that one.
    I wouldn't normally bring this stuff in here but i thought i was missing something in the code.
    First, I'd have to know what code sections she is referring to, so start by having her provide the actual code sections. I couldn't find here 'separation' requirement in the R325 she mentioned, so it may be someplace else, in which case she needs to provide you with that code section.

    IF she provides a code which requires "separation", then the required "separation" would need to be defined, i.e., "separation" similar to that between a private garage and living space, or is there actually a fire-resistance rating to that "separation".

    Either way, IF the code calls for the hallway (corridor) to be "separated" from the ''living space rooms' (they are not "dwelling units" unless they met the definition of a "dwelling unit", and your description does not indicate those 'living space rooms' meet that definition), then the walls of the corridor, and all openings into that corridor (doors from the 'living space rooms', closets, bathrooms which open to that corridor, etc) would need to meet the requirements for that "separation" (could be 20-minute rated doors, or could just be a door which meets the requirements for the garage / living space 'separation' wall opening.

    Too many unknown things, unspecified code sections, and wording which does not match the specified code section to make sense of what she is saying - you need to get detailed code section numbers to review what they actually say ... she may be wrong while being right ... she may be right while being wrong ... she may just be wrong ... or she may just be right ... no way to know without her providing actual code sections.

    Guard rails with the 4 inch sphere rejection spacing are required where there is a rise of greater than 30 inches, the maximum permissible rise of a ramp (between landings) is 30 inches (i.e.., 'not greater than 30 inches, so with a maximum 30 inch rise ramp, the 4 inch sphere rejection is not required) ... however, if there is an intermediate landing and the total rise 'is' greater than 30 inches, then she is correct that a guard is required, and a guard would be required to not allow a 4 inch sphere to pass through.

    You need to get her to provide actual code sections for each thing she is requiring, and go through each code section with her to make sure it is applicable to what she is applying it to.

    If she starts jumping around from code section to code section or code to code, make sure that there is a specific reference which makes that jump, and follow the exceptions to see what is excepted out and what is not. In some cases the codes say to the effect of 'section xxxx shall apply, with the additional requirements of section yyyy, and section yyyy may have an exception which states that under conditions aaaa, bbbb, or cccc, section yyyy is not applicable (which simply means that when the conditions aaaa, bbbb, or cccc are met, section xxxx is applicable without anything in section yyyy being applicable) ... and around the mulberry bush we go ...

    Here we go round the mulberry bush
    The mulberry bush, the mulberry bush
    Here we go round the mulberry bush
    So early in the morning



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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