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  1. #1
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    Question Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Hi,


    I purchased a condo in a commercial building (half condo, half hotel) in Miami about a year ago. The previous owner ended up converting the unit into a 2-bedroom, and in this building owners just need to submit an application to the HOA for construction approval, and then it's up to the owner/GC to pull the city permits. However, I come to find out after doing a permit search that the previous owner didn't pull any city permits for the work done.


    Fast forward to today, the building allows short-term rentals (e.g. Airbnb) but due to Covid they are now enforcing all owners to provide all the documentation that the city of Miami requires to allow short-term rentals, and one of the things they need is a "change of use" to show the unit listed as a "condo-hotel". This is where I run into an issue after reaching out to different architects/contractors that provide a "legalization" services to bring the unit up to code and also a "change of use" to show "condo-hotel".


    In one of the proposals I received, they want to provide demolition services to bring the unit back to the original layout and state the reason is because the bedroom doesn't have direct access to the exterior (EERO? R310?). I obviously do not want to remove this extra room, so my question is, would I be able to bring my unit up to code by labeling this room as a "multi-use room (e.g. office, den)"?


    Below are screenshot image links of the original and upgraded floor plans of the unit.



    Original Floor Plan: https://gyazo.com/0b3c42b72cac0f73bb57dd7e3bb878e1


    Upgraded Floor Plan: https://gyazo.com/ef2b279f016b606d4616f65aa6c8ab1e


    Thank you!

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    First thing is you are looking at the wrong code.

    Depending on when the original building was constructed, the applicable code would have been either: a) South Florida Building Code, Miami-Dade County Edition; or b) Florida Building Code, Building.

    Your reference to "R310" is a reference to the Florida Building Code, Residential, which is not applicable to that building.

    Then, to complicate matters (sort of), you must first start with (regardless of whatever original code applied at the time of construction) the Florida Building Code, Existing Building.

    The Florida Building Code, Existing Building with then reference all repairs, renovations, and additions to the the Florida Building Code, Building.

    The key will be in the original permit documents - was it a condo/hotel? When I was in South Florida years ago, some condo/hotels were being built.

    All the above said, though, your proposed floor floor floor plan is a non-starter for using that room/space as habitable space.

    Start by looking at the definitions in the FBC-Existing and FBC-Building: start with habitable space.

    Then go to interior environments ... then follow the advice of your architect/designer.

    Is the building a highrise? Look at the definition.

    Is fully sprinklered (this should be a "yes")?

    That should do for starters.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Another avenue to consider may be - did the seller disclose on the seller disclosure that the work they did was not permitted?

    If not, there may be an avenue to take action against the seller?

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    @Jerry, thank you for the detailed and helpful reply!

    I took a look at the seller's disclosure I received on 9/3/19, please see link below and it looks like he might accidentally skipped 4.b. but the good thing I see is he marked 4.c. with NO which is clearly not the case because I know for a fact that he's the one that upgraded the unit because I have a copy of the HOA construction approval he had to request.

    https://gyazo.com/5340b0ef00e37ddd124eddeaab55f77e

    What does this exactly mean? Is there anything that I can do at this point for the seller to bring the updates he made up to code? I think it might be too late at this point since I closed on this property back in Nov. '19.

    I'll try doing some more research on the other things you mentioned regarding the FL codes to see what I can find out.

    Thank you!

    Last edited by Bernie G; 09-02-2020 at 07:55 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    I was actually able to find out who the contractor was that did all this work at my unit with the previous owner because they're listed on the HOA construction package form; is it worth contacting them and asking why no permits were pulled when this upgrade was done? Or trying to work with them again so they can bring my unit up to code?

    Thank you, again!


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie G View Post
    I took a look at the seller's disclosure I received on 9/3/19, please see link below and it looks like he might accidentally skipped 4.b. but the good thing I see is he marked 4.c. with NO which is clearly not the case because I know for a fact that he's the one that upgraded the unit because I have a copy of the HOA construction approval he had to request.
    4.a has two parts:
    - fire sprinklers ... answered with "yes"
    - If no fire sprinklers ... no answer necessary as "yes" there are fire sprinkler

    4.b asks if any work has "not" had association approval ... answered "no"
    - but ... have you reviewed what was asked/approved to be done compared to the work which was actually done? There could be differences, and any differences are "yes" as any work different then what was approved ... is not approved by the association

    4.c asks about work in violation of codes ... answered "no"
    - many think that doing all work meeting code means the the work meets code ... code requires permits, no permit is a violation of the code, no permit and the answer becomes "yes"

    4.f is asking about permits, that does not set aside required permits which were not obtained as it is essentially a permit waiting to be 'opened' (permit was required), and the permit can only be closed after having been opened ... and unpermitted work is a code violation

    What does this exactly mean? Is there anything that I can do at this point for the seller to bring the updates he made up to code? I think it might be too late at this point since I closed on this property back in Nov. '19.
    That likely means the contract was fraudulent, and you may have maybe 1-5 years to take action to address the fraud - you would need to contact a real estate and construction attorney to find out what they say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie G View Post
    I was actually able to find out who the contractor was that did all this work at my unit with the previous owner because they're listed on the HOA construction package form; is it worth contacting them and asking why no permits were pulled when this upgrade was done? Or trying to work with them again so they can bring my unit up to code?
    It's worth making a record of what the sat about the permits/lack thereof.

    Keep in mind that a licensed contractor not pulling permits is not going to go well for the licensed contractor, and if unlicensed, even worse, and if unlicensed, the owner was aiding and abetting the unlicensed contractor ... making it even worse for the owner.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    4.a has two parts:
    - fire sprinklers ... answered with "yes"
    - If no fire sprinklers ... no answer necessary as "yes" there are fire sprinkler

    4.b asks if any work has "not" had association approval ... answered "no"
    - but ... have you reviewed what was asked/approved to be done compared to the work which was actually done? There could be differences, and any differences are "yes" as any work different then what was approved ... is not approved by the association

    4.c asks about work in violation of codes ... answered "no"
    - many think that doing all work meeting code means the the work meets code ... code requires permits, no permit is a violation of the code, no permit and the answer becomes "yes"

    4.f is asking about permits, that does not set aside required permits which were not obtained as it is essentially a permit waiting to be 'opened' (permit was required), and the permit can only be closed after having been opened ... and unpermitted work is a code violation



    That likely means the contract was fraudulent, and you may have maybe 1-5 years to take action to address the fraud - you would need to contact a real estate and construction attorney to find out what they say



    It's worth making a record of what the sat about the permits/lack thereof.

    Keep in mind that a licensed contractor not pulling permits is not going to go well for the licensed contractor, and if unlicensed, even worse, and if unlicensed, the owner was aiding and abetting the unlicensed contractor ... making it even worse for the owner.
    Thank you for the quick reply!

    After looking at the construction package they submitted to the HOA for approval, it definitely doesn't list everything that was done. They listed in the work details section "kitchen cabinets", "paint", "bath", "floor", "bath", and "doors".

    This is no mention that they basically moved the whole kitchen into the dining room area.

    I found the contractor's website and they do seem like a licensed contractor and they even state that they provide code violation services; which just confuses me even more, as to why they didn't pull any permits to do this full unit remodel.

    Yeah, I guess I need to reach out to a real estate/construction attorney to see what they suggest I can do at this point.

    Thank you!


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie G View Post
    I found the contractor's website and they do seem like a licensed contractor and they even state that they provide code violation services; which just confuses me even more, as to why they didn't pull any permits to do this full unit remodel.
    Did you check the street file with Miami-Dade? Maybe they did pull a permit. May have had less work on that permit - not uncommon for contractors to do that to reduce permit fees.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Did you check the street file with Miami-Dade? Maybe they did pull a permit. May have had less work on that permit - not uncommon for contractors to do that to reduce permit fees.
    I did a full permit search with Miami and the only permit that came back was one that was opened/closed to replace the water heater. No other permits were listed for this unit.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    I reached out to the contractor and I'm getting confused on what he is telling me. I asked him to send me the permits they pulled to do this remodel and he then tells me the following "the work was done with permission from just the HOA and that it was not done with permission from the city since the previous owner did not require or request this service."


    That prompted me to ask him, that I was under the impression that any remodel that requires a room addition, plumbing, electrical is required to pull city permits always; his reply to this is the following "Yes, but previous owner didn't commit. Previous owner submitted plans only to HOA and they gave him approval, and the HOA didn't apply for city-approved permits." He goes on to also state that "in fact that unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows".


    Now I'm not a licensed contractor, but isn't it the contractor's responsibility to pull city permits since his license has to be listed on the permit? I don't believe it's the HOA's responsibility to pull city permits if they're not the ones actually doing the work; right?


    And if he's also telling me that the "unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows"; why in the world would he go through with updating this unit to a 2-bedroom when he is already telling me it's not allowed?


    Based on the responses I received here, since this is a high-rise and most likely has 2 stairway shafts I don't believe an egress window is needed within my unit for this added room.


    Thank you!

    Last edited by Bernie G; 09-02-2020 at 07:53 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie G View Post
    Now I'm not a licensed contractor, but isn't it the contractor's responsibility to pull city permits since his license has to be listed on the permit?
    ONLY the contractor may pull a permit.

    I don't believe it's the HOA's responsibility to pull city permits if they're not the ones actually doing the work; right?
    If the city gives them permit, there is a problem ... with the city building department not understanding what they are allowed, and not allowed, to do.

    And if he's also telling me that the "unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows"; why in the world would he go through with updating this unit to a 2-bedroom when he is already telling me it's not allowed?
    I've not seen anything anywhere which limits a sleeping room to ONLY ONE window ... in fact, the code requires 'at least one' (where required).


    Based on the responses I received here, since this is a high-rise and most likely has to stairway shafts I don't believe an egress window is needed within my unit for this added room.
    If it is a high-rise ... it'd better have two stairways shafts, and the requirement for an EERO is not based on that.

    HIGH-RISE BUILDING. A building with an occupied floor located more than 75 feet (22 860 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.

    Typically, a building greater than 7 stories will meet the definition of being a high-rise. Many 7 story buildings that I've seen top out around 71-72 feet as that keeps them below the height of being classified as a "high-rise".

    EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING. An operable window, door or other similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency.

    (underlining and bold are mine)
    403.5.6 Emergency escape and rescue.
    Emergency escape and rescue openings specified in Section 1030 are not required.

    SECTION 1030
    EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE


    Sounds like that contractor has not only put their foot in their mouth, they've already turned it into beef jerky so they can chew on it for a while.

    You need to contact an attorney who deals in real estate and construction issues. Send me an email and I will forward it to a construction litigation consultant I used to work with when I was in South Florida (I retired ... mostly ... and moved; I believe he is still a bull dog chomping at the chain waiting for unsuspecting contractors to wander by within reach of the chain ... or someone ready to let him 'git').

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Sounds like that contractor has not only put their foot in their mouth, they've already turned it into beef jerky so they can chew on it for a while.

    You need to contact an attorney who deals in real estate and construction issues. Send me an email and I will forward it to a construction litigation consultant I used to work with when I was in South Florida (I retired ... mostly ... and moved; I believe he is still a bull dog chomping at the chain waiting for unsuspecting contractors to wander by within reach of the chain ... or someone ready to let him 'git').
    Yeah, it definitely does! I don't know how someone can be a licensed contractor and expect the HOA to get the city permits for construction work that they're doing.

    Ok, great...ty; I'll send you my email via PM.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?

    I just talked to the previous contractor and he kept on telling me that the HOA manager didn't require city permits and they approved the work at the building and at the same time telling me having a bedroom there is not allowed. I was like, 1. why did you do the work then? 2. what does that matter , you're a licensed contractor and any work you do needs a city permit pulled.



    He said it was my issue with the previous owner and not him, and that I should have looked into this before purchasing the unit. In hindsight, I guess it's partly my fault for not doing more due diligence when purchasing this condo but since the seller wrote permits where pulled on the seller's disclosure I didn't follow through doing my own permit search with the city at that time.



    Yeah, hopefully after talking to a AHJ I can get more clarity.


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