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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    291

    Default Fire separation walls

    No fire separation ceiling in a garage with habitable rooms above (house was built in 2017). Also had HVAC duct lines coming through the wall and also the flex line. How should I word this issue ? (bad thing about it is this county has not adopted any building code)

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    (bad thing about it is this county has not adopted any building code)
    Has TN adopted a statewide building code which is applicable to cities and counties which do not adopt a building code?

    If so, refer to that code.

    If not, refer to 'nationally accepted building codes require' blah, blah, blah, blah due to saftey reasons and protection of the occupants.

    Something like that ... but drop the word "fire" from "fire separation" as that implies rated fire-resistant separations (I know, IRC "302.6 Dwelling-garage fire separation." uses "fire" in that title, but does not use it in the actual code wording or table.)

    You can add separately that the separation helps provide the occupants time to safely evacuate in case of a fire.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    I asked because ICC has TN codes.

    https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes/tennessee

    TN may be like TX with statewide codes - statewide code applies if city/county has not adopted a code (unless that has changed in TX)

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
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    Santa Rosa, CA
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ... (I know, IRC "302.6 Dwelling-garage fire separation." uses "fire" in that title, but does not use it in the actual code wording or table.)
    Jerry,

    I have a teeny problem with your interpretation and am going to take the perilous position of disagreeing with you. We are on the California Residential Code, which uses the IRC as a model code, but does make some changes. As a result, I do not have a current copy of the 2018 IRC, just the 2019 CRC and don't really know all of the modifications that CA has made. I do believe that "and/or carport" was added by California to 302.6, but don't know if anything else was.

    Both the header of 302 as well as 302.6 use the word "fire". If fire-resistance or fire separation is not the intention, then that word should not be used. Further, if the garage/interior separation wall is not intended to function as fire-resistant construction, then it should not be included in that section. My interpretation is that the writers intended garage/interior to be some kind of fire wall.

    I do understand that "fire-resistant" is found in all other references in this section except the garage/house, which does leave a bit of ambiguity. Why omit "fire" in that one? It would be helpful if the writers of the code were clearer.

    (Copied from the 2019 CRC)
    SECTION R302
    FIRE-RESISTANT CONSTRUCTION


    R302.6 Dwelling/garage and/or carport fire separation.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    I have a teeny problem with your interpretation and am going to take the perilous position of disagreeing with you.
    No perilous position, you are reading from the CRC, I and reading from the IRC.

    From the IRC:


    Section 302
    - Fire-Resistant Construction


    R302.6 Dwelling-garage fire separation.
    - The garage shall be separated as required by Table R302.6. Openings in garage walls shall comply with Section 302.5. Attachment of gypsum board shall comply iwht Table R702.3.5. The wall separation provisions of Table R302.6 shall not apply to garage walls that are perpendicular to the adjacent dwelling unit wall.


    - Table R302.5 Dwelling-Garage Separation
    - - (the word "fire" is not used in Table R302.5)

    Thus, I stated:
    ... but drop the word "fire" from "fire separation" as that implies rated fire-resistant separations (I know, IRC "302.6 Dwelling-garage fire separation." uses "fire" in that title, but does not use it in the actual code wording or table.)


    If there was a fire, I would not want to be the one who referred to it as "fire" separation as the code does not specify any "fire-resistance rating" to that plain old "separation".



    https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IR...3_Ch03_SecR302

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
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    685

    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post

    I do not have a current copy of the 2018 IRC
    Gunnar
    most current or past CA codes
    https://up.codes/codes/california

    btw Section R302 Fire-Resistant Construction

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    I suppose the wording one uses comes down to what one uses, such as a "footer" (which does not exist in construction, however, there is that thing word processers place at the bottom of every page when one elects to insert a "footer") ... versus a "footing".


    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
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    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Barry,

    I do not understand your post. I already have the California codes. It's the IRC that I don't have.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Fire separation walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Barry,

    I do not understand your post. I already have the California codes. It's the IRC that I don't have.
    it's in the prior link
    https://up.codes/viewer/california/irc-2018

    if you just want irc w/o cal amendments
    slider down the menu

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

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