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  1. #1
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default needed a breeze in the shower

    This light fixture complete with ceiling fan is about half way in and out of the shower as far as where the curtain rod hangs.
    Would you write this up?

    The reason I'm asking is because it is not directly over the shower and it is not enclosed by a shower door.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    NO PART of it is allowed to be over the edge of the tub or even within 3 feet of the edge of the tub, and up to 8 feet high.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    I didn't think so but wanted to be sure.
    Thanks.


  4. #4
    Tim Moreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    I agree, same as the other post on the light fixture that some are arguing over


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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Moreira View Post
    I agree, same as the other post on the light fixture that some are arguing over

    The ceiling fan is worse ... some say you only measure 'to the fan' instead of 'to the tippy tip tippy of the blades'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Ahh man, that's a Red Neck towel dryer!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Don't know if any of you have ever been over anyone else's home that had a set up like that... but I have and had the pleasure of taking a shower there.

    You freeze your kahonnies off with that freaking fan running!!!
    Like George Costanza says, "There's shrinkage, SIGNIFICANT shrinkage!!!"

    rr


  8. #8
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Borrowed, not mine, courtesy of someone on this board. Author unkonwn maybe Jerry. I like it so I saved it, good illustration

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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Michael,
    Any idea what "A" "B" and "C" designate?

    Jim Luttrall
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    Question Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Jim That's what I would like to know, because I bet that A does not say that the fixtures shone in the picture have to be approved for "wet" locations.


  11. #11
    Tim Moreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Not sure where Michael's picture is from, possibly an older version of the NEC but here is what is said in the:

    02 NEC:

    410.1 Scope.
    This article covers luminaires (lighting fixtures), lampholders, pendants, incandescent filament lamps, arc lamps, electric-discharge lamps, the wiring and equipment forming part of such lamps, luminaires (fixtures), and lighting installations.

    410.4 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Specific Locations.

    (A) Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All luminaires (fixtures) installed in damp locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”

    (D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.

    The intent of 410.4(D) is to keep cord-connected, hanging, or pendant luminaires and suspended fans out of the reach of an individual standing on a bathtub rim. This list of prohibited items recognizes that the same risk of electric shock is present for each one.

    Exhibit 410.1 illustrates the restricted zone in which the specified luminaires, lighting track, and paddle fans are prohibited. This requirement applies to hydromassage bathtubs, as defined in 680.2, as well as other bathtub types and shower areas. See 680.43 for installation requirements for spas and hot tubs (as defined in 680.2) installed indoors.

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    Last edited by Tim Moreira; 04-21-2007 at 10:41 PM.

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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Thank you tim for posting the complete code, I still believe the picture you posted with the code allowes a surface mounted light over the tub without a wet location sticker. I would like to see proof that there is a fixture or vent fan that looks like the one in the picture that is for wet locations.


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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Just because the area is above a wet location does not mean that it is going to get wet. The ceiling above a tub is not designed to get wet and in most cases will never get wet. Just because you can see there is a possiabily that it could happen boes not make it un safe. A person is capable of doing anything stupid, but that does not mean that we are responsable for their stupity. That could apply to anything, if your going to protect your client from stupity then you better not stop with a light over the tub, you better list every stupid thing that could happen through out the whole house.


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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Just because the area is above a wet location does not mean that it is going to get wet. The ceiling above a tub is not designed to get wet and in most cases will never get wet.
    Actually, Tony, it does mean that. It means that, as the code dictates, that area "is subject to" getting wet.

    Now, *of course*, the code cannot know *IF* an area deemed as a "wet location" will ever actually "get wet", but, when it does "get wet", the proper "wet location" fixture will have been installed.

    "Just because you can see there is a possiabily that it could happen boes not make it un safe."

    See above.

    I must agree with you on one point (and you will love / hate this):

    You could building a swimming pool with a light in it, not have it be an underwater light, and, *IF* "you never put water in the pool, and it was covered to protect it from rain, the pool would "never get wet", so, why bother installing a underwater rated pool light?

    That fits right in with your logic. I mean, NO ONE HAS TO put water in the pool, right? I'll answer that for you "Ummm, yeah, ... aaaaaa ... right."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    So what your saying is that your required to put cement board or what ever you use where your at on the ceilings above the tubs also. In Oklahoma even our outside walls and ceilings are not wet locations if they are covered with a 4 foot over hang. So not all areas are the same and codes don't apply across the country. We have open bulb flourscent light fixtures that are approved for wet locations that I would not install above a tub, but according to you they would be safer than the one with a cover posted on the other post.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    I'm still looking to see code that says the ceiling above the tub is a wet location, so far it's just your opinion?


  17. #17
    Tim Moreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Tony,

    I think the argument here is with the height of that ceiling/fixture. If it is above:

    (D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.
    Then any light fixture/fan that meets the code is OK.

    The question is *what is the height of Wes's ceiling fan (blades) and light fixture*?

    Does it comply with this and the other sections? If yes then they are OK, if no well then...


  18. #18
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    Wink Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    The fan in the picture is not allowed if the ceiling is not above 8 ft above the rim of the tub, however a surface mounted light could be installed in its place without a wet location sticker if it has an enclosed globe.


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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    The fan in the picture is not allowed if the ceiling is not above 8 ft above the rim of the tub, however a surface mounted light could be installed in its place without a wet location sticker if it has an enclosed globe.
    Tony,

    I'll break that down for you to understand, possibly, if you really want to, otherwise you will just continue to blow this off. It's up to you.

    "The fan in the picture is not allowed if the ceiling is not above 8 ft above the rim of the tub,"

    Partially right.

    You have the "8 feet" part right, but not where you measure to. The bottom bottomy thingy on the ceiling fan needs to be "8 feet* above the flood level rim of the tub (the overflow edge).

    "however a surface mounted light could be installed in its place ... "

    Correct on that part.

    "without a wet location sticker if it has an enclosed globe."

    Incorrect on that part.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    I agree except for the wet location sticker, if the ceiling is sheetrock no sticker needed.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Tony,

    Curious.

    Why would you not think the ceiling above the tub is not considered a wet location?

    Have you not ever seen the steam and humidity collect on the ceilings above a tub or shower? or a leaking shower head spraying water up onto the ceiling?


  22. #22
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    The garages are wet locations requiring GFCI outlets but NO wet location lights. Go figure?


  23. #23
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    Default Re: needed a breeze in the shower

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    The garages are wet locations requiring GFCI outlets but NO wet location lights. Go figure?
    Huh?

    Who said garage are wet locations?

    Jeez, no wonder you don't understand what is being said in the posts above.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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