The interior concerns of the modular home

These are the interior concerns I had that I mentioned from the roof section.

The first and second pics show horizontal gaps in the crown molding and baseboards that are noticable throughout the entire house. The owner of this new home contacted the manufacturer which stated that this is normal and is caused by settling.

I don't think so.

A house is not going to settle horizontally.

Then there's the cracks in the ceiling drywall at the marriage lines. The cracks runs the entire lenth of the home.
One concern is that when I inspected the crawlspace, at least a third of the piers were not in full contact with the support beams.

Which leads me to my next question.

There is a gap between the front and rear marriage lines.
Are these gaps normal?

The front section of the house has an approximate gap of 1/2 inch between the marriage line.
The rear section has an approximate gap of at least 1 full inch.

Then, there is an unfinished chase in a bedroom closet that the manufacture said they never finish. It has a cut out in the floor and in the ceiling.
The framing is open and was left that way. A sheet of plastic was left over the hole in the floor and a piece of plywood covers the ceiling.

Is this normal?

One final question. The manufacture did not run any cable wires in the junction boxes for the cable company to use.

According to the owner, the cable guy came out to hook up the cable and said the interior boxes are empty and he would have to run the cable wire under the house. The cable guy said that is not normal.
Again, the manufacturer said this is how they do it.

Does anyone know?

In my opinion, the gaps in the trim are minor, probably due to shrinkage of the wood rather than settling. Fill and paint. The question of separation between the two halves, yes, a 1" gap seems excessive. Call for an experienced builder to check that. There may have been movement there which would explain the ceiling cracks. There should be no drywall cracks at the seam. JMO

The chase and the cable issues, I suppose they should have been more clear about those things when they sold the package. Check with other buyers?

The buyers have already bought the house and are living in it.

Going on 1 month now.

They called the manufacturers and they were given the run around.

Thats why they called me to do an inspection.

So now I have to figure out whats going on so I can finish the report.

I need to know what to tell them about what I found so they can tell the manufactures which are coming back this week to do their 30 day walk through.

In my opinion the buyers whould be checking their contract for what was or was not supposed to be done.
As far as the structural issues, poor trim work will react like that but as i was not there and you indicate that support piers are not functioning as intended you would be doing your client an injustice to not recommend that they hire a lisenced structural engineer to evaluate the entire support system of the home.
That way they are sure to get what they deserve, and you are sure to be left off the hook down the road.

I'm not thinking structural issues based on the pictures. The gaps in the crown mould could be a couple reasons. First off, crap work. It should be a mitered lap joint in the 1st pic, not a butt joint. The gap is a bit excessive even for poor work. Considering they used a butt joint they may have filled the gap with mud or caulk that has fallen out and now exposed the crap work. The amount of gap in pics 1 and 2 is possible if the trim was not acclimated to the site prior to install, or if temps ranged wildly while trim was being installed. Is the trim pine, mdf, or plastic. The corner miter separation is common for poor work.
The drywall crack on the pop-corn ceiling is common. Could be movement, lack of screws, poor tape install, etc. However since you are saying it runs the length of the house then that presumes it is a common issue throughout. Could just be bad rock install. Is this crack mid-span, what are the joists above, truss, are there plumbing lines above, heat ducts, etc? Did the mechanical chop the crap out of the joists? Will the client consider opening a hole?
As far as the cable and hole, I would say those are contract and sales issues. A builder will run the boxes so that if the buyer wants to pay for the upgrade, the builder can do the work quickly and profitably. That hole is probably a laundry chase or another upgrade option your client didn't go for. If they bought the new, under a contract, their attorney should be assessing that. As far as the hole in the floor. The builder should cover that with plywood. If the client has kids, write the hole up as D&H.
Hope that helps.

On a one month old modular, or mfg home, if the home was on a perm foundation or pad and piers , and I didn't see any foundation, or settlement issues, I would agree with Marcus.
I would recommend having the drywall and trim issues corrected, then recommend an additional inspection prior to the end of their warranty.

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Originally Posted by Markus Keller

The drywall crack on the pop-corn ceiling is common. Could be movement, lack of screws, poor tape install, etc. However since you are saying it runs the length of the house then that presumes it is a common issue throughout.

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Markus, I believe he says the crack is at the seam where the two sides of the modular home are joined. He saw a 1" gap in the basement/crawlspace between the two halves and a third of the support piers are not in contact with anything. That points to settlement, movement due to a rush job, probably. The warranty should cover all the repairs, so call them out.

IMO, a modular home is not in the same class as a manufactured home. It should be a well insulated permanent residence, and that is what the clients paid for.

The attic pictures are not pretty, but probably typical for the style. I would recommend a repair at the gap in the sheathing, but the sellers will likely refuse to touch that. Record the gap as a possible future issue. Make sure the clients have you lined up for the one year warranty inspection, so you can check for dips in the roof, etc.

John the 'marriage line' thing sort of escaped me. I was thinking he was using that term for the drywall butt joint along the ceiling not for the joining of the two house halves.
Considering that I would still see the ceiling crack as fairly normal for new construction. Not being familiar with how modular homes are put together, maybe that seam should have been a drywall expansion joint.
The 1" attic gap, is that the pic with the black tarps? I looked at it and can't decipher what the heck it is.
Since the place is new, there should be plans, specs. I would want to read through those and verify that things are built as per plan. I don't think there should be a gap. Once the two halves are mated, they should be as one. I would think any expansion or contraction should be along perimeter areas, not in the middle.
On NC, I tell clients to expect some drywall cracking in the 1st year. It seems to work that way for various reasons.

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The 1" attic gap, is that the pic with the black tarps? I looked at it and can't decipher what the heck it is.

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Markus,
I think that is a picture from under the house (I use that term loosely). I'm not sure what it is a picture of, but I think this is what we are looking at.

Underbelly Repair Materials

Wes,
Are you sure this a modular home? After rereading through your post, and looking at the pictures more closely, the more it sounds like a double wide mobile home.

Modular building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by chris mcintyre

Wes,
Are you sure this a modular home? After rereading through your post, and looking at the pictures more closely, the more it sounds like a double wide mobile home.

Modular building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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If it has an attic access, I'm assuming it is a Modular Home.

This is a modular home.

3,200 sf downstairs with the attic being turned into a huge bonus room with a stairs case already in place.

The black tarp is the underbelly wrap covering the floor system and insulation in the crawlspace. The gaps in the tarp is the 1 inch gap between the marriage lines where the middle section of the house and the "rear" section of the house are joined.

The house has three sections.

The gap as viewed from the crawlspace between the middle and the "front" sections is only about 1/2 inch wide.

The bigger gap is where the floor in the interior has a raised surface under the carpet and the cracks in the ceiling and run the full lenth of the home.

The piers that are not touching also run under the marriage line where the larger gap between sections is. The marriage line (where the two sections join) run down the center of the piers. Thats why I was wondering if the uneveness is causing the cracks and unlevel areas in the floor.

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Originally Posted by wes owens

This is a modular home.

The piers that are not touching also run under the marriage line where the larger gap between sections is. The marriage line (where the two sections join) run down the center of the piers. Thats why I was wondering if the uneveness is causing the cracks and unlevel areas in the floor.

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A 2-3 " gap at the marriage line is not uncommon on a mfg home, I'm assuming the same goes with a modular home.
The piers should be secured/ tightened to the structure framing. If they are not, and the two sections are not properly attached together with lag bolts, that would sure have an affect on the flooring, and cause cracking.
The mfg should have provided a blocking / or pier location diagram with the home.

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Originally Posted by Dan Harris

If it has an attic access, I'm assuming it is a Modular Home.

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Dan FWIW a lot of the bigger double wides do have attics with pull down stairs. I have seen a couple of them, tried to find the info from the manufacture but they all wanted me to sign up and log in. I did find this, only bringing this up because I see mobile homes in your signature and thought you might want to know.

View topic - Shading the house - with mesh tarp

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Originally Posted by chris mcintyre

Dan FWIW a lot of the bigger double wides do have attics with pull down stairs. I have seen a couple of them, tried to find the info from the manufacture but they all wanted me to sign up and log in. I did find this, only bringing this up because I see mobile homes in your signature and thought you might want to know.

View topic - Shading the house - with mesh tarp

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Interesting. It must be a regional thing.
I've never seen one in AZ, as far as I know none of the west coast mfg homes have attic access's

This is a pic of the house.

The attic, which they are turning into a bonus room, is as big as the downstairs and at least 10 ft. tall.

Also has an attached 2 car garage.

Wes,
I agree with Wayne Soper. I had a similar request concerning a new double wide. Similar situation with cracking and leveling. I deferred to a structural engineer. You and your client will be going up against a manufacture and their attorneys. Your analysis certainly seems to be correct, however I would still defer to the structural engineer.

http://www.modularcouncil.org/mc/adm...res/70temp.pdf

Wes you may want to see if the Mfg. of the home you have inspected has a set crew instruction that you can have.

The link I have pasted shows that this Mfg. expects to have 5/8" gap, not 2 - 3" gap between the units. (see pg.4 item 10)

The owner also needs to know if the set crew was supplied by the Mfg. or was it separate contractor.

First, get the Manufacturers installation manual, and get a copy of the "approved" plans for this particular unit. Being that this is built as a "Mod" or "FBB" it may fall under jurisdiction of the state, most states regulate the building of "Mods" and the AHJ will regulate the set-up.If this is a frame on pier and pad set it is lovingly called a "Hudular" or "mobilemod" it can still considered a Mod if so designated and built, but is a very close relative to a HUD manufactured home. Settling is common, and should be addressed by the set-up crew usually within 30-60 days, as well as cracks and window and door adjustments.Gaps at the marriage line are adressed per the MFG installation manual, 1/2" to 3/4" is common and may be filled with shims and or insulaton, unless it is a structual connection point that transfers a load. The picture of the unfinished chase is unknown, it kind of looks like a supply or return air duct chase that was not finished or just not supposed to be there? the approved plans will show what this is and then it can be addressed. As far as coax and phone cables, many manufacturers only provide a raceway and box, and that black shiny stuff it's called bottom board, and all penetrations that are made in it are required to be repaired to prevent air infiltration and critters out of the belly.A call to the right person at the factory will get results, get the set-up crew and retailer involved, and contact the AHJ.

Cosmetic issues are of no concern but should be listed for the mfg. to correct. I have seen numerous small gaps where the sections of the mfg. home connect in the attic area which can cause some cosmetic issues on the interior surfaces - not structurally significant. Gaps or missing or poorly placed block columns are; and columns which do not support the structure need the imput from a structural engineer especially if the mfg. or contractor is non responsive. I inspected one where the block stem wall had been installed prior to delivery of the sections and the entire front block wall was 3' inside the perimiter sill of the front section. This caused a nightmare for the contractor and I think eventually lead to him going out of the mfg. home business. Its one thing to put the sections together in a controled environment and an other to put them thogether on a building site especially 3 sections. Buyer beware. :)

Two issues to be aware of if the unit is in a hot, humid climate, like the Gulf Coast. If warm, moist air in the crawl space comes in contact with the underside of the floor deck, condensation may result if the AC chills the floor system to a temperature below the dew point of the crawl space air. Insulation alone may not prevent moist air from coming in contact with the floor deck. A tightly sealed vapor barrier (1 perm or less) sealed to the underside of the floor frame is the best protection we have found.

Be sure all penetrations through the floor and ceiling frames are airtight. We investigated a one story modular unit in our region where the penetrations for electrical and plumbing lines were not sealed at the bottom or top plates, and the crawl space vapor barrier was not sealed. The attic was vented with soffitt and ridge vents that created a stack effect that drew moist air from the crawl space into the wall cavities between air conditioned rooms resulting in condensation and heavy mold on all surfaces in the unsealed wall cavities.

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Originally Posted by john christine

If you are looking for an experienced home inspector then you can hire your inspector from Certified Home Inspector for Home Inspection Service in Torrance, Manhattan Beach site!! If you know the other site then also inform me so that i can check the site and select the best one!!

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Moderators. Only 4 posts by this person and all request you go to the website for more information. Obviously a marketing person try to raise hits on the site. Can you block this user?

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Originally Posted by arjen20

Home inspection is very important when you are planning to sell your house or even planning to buy a
house.A good Home Inspector covers almost everything.. they evaluate all aspects of the property people are
purchasing, from the roof to the basement and all areas in between.. But you must make sure he is licensed.Its very important aspect while choosing a Home Inspector.

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Moronic Moron
Spamming Spammer
Get the idea?

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Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey

Moderators. Only 4 posts by this person and all request you go to the website for more information. Obviously a marketing person try to raise hits on the site. Can you block this user?

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Bruce,

Go back and edit your post to remove his link and stuff, otherwise you are doing just what he wanted with your quote or his post.

Brian has already deleted his posts.

I have contacted Brian to remove that new posts, and Bruce's post and this post of mine.

Jim,

Edit out his link or you are just helping him spread his link around.

Here is a review of him

Equity Building Inspection - Torrance - Torrance, CA


"Mike was not very thorough. There were things missed that could be observed easily by a person without inspection knowledge. Verbally it seemed as though there was a lot in his arsenal that he would bring to the inspection - thermal imaging, digital camera, and mold inspection. When he arrived it turned out that these were all extra or he was too lazy to do them. Mike would only inspect things that were out in the open - doors had to opened for him to check. His knowledge of construction seemed very limited. He had an unfriendly attitude and was not happy to answer questions. At one point during the inspection I asked him to show me how to use the heat and AC and his response was: "I'm not going to bother! You will forget anyway. ..."

Anyone so inclined may want to share their comments about him.;)
Equity Building Inspection, 21500 Hawthorne Boulevard, Torrance, CA 90503 - Reviews

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Originally Posted by wes owens

The buyers have already bought the house and are living in it.

Going on 1 month now.

They called the manufacturers and they were given the run around.

Thats why they called me to do an inspection.

So now I have to figure out whats going on so I can finish the report.

I need to know what to tell them about what I found so they can tell the manufactures which are coming back this week to do their 30 day walk through.

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I have limited experience with mod. homes but a friend of my bought one and had the same problem you see with the molding and walls. We determined it was from settling. The foundations is built and then all the weight is applied at one time and something had to give. It took a year to finally stop settling. First the molding separated then the walls cracked. He even had to remove and reinstall some of the siding because it buckled.

This is obviously not a modular home. This is a HUD home or a double wide mobile home. It is also called manufactured housing. It is built to a totally different standard than a "stick built house" and the federal inspection done at the factory is a life long inspection by the federal government Department of H. U. D.
The proper course of action for the homeowner is to contact the dealer who sold and installed the home and demand the issues are fixed. If the home is not properly supported by the piers under the frame then the building inspector is at fault for letting that go. Chances are he only looked at the location, not the contact to the frame of these supports.
Contact the local building department and get the building inspector involved. He has the authority to demand the installation defects are corrected. The building inspector is the one who should have been called in the first place on this job. Of course the home may not be located where building inspections are done. That would be a good place not to live in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by wes owens

These are the interior concerns I had that I mentioned from the roof section.

The first and second pics show horizontal gaps in the crown molding and baseboards that are noticeable throughout the entire house. The owner of this new home contacted the manufacturer which stated that this is normal and is caused by settling.

I don't think so.

A house is not going to settle horizontally.

Then there's the cracks in the ceiling drywall at the marriage lines. The cracks runs the entire length of the home.
One concern is that when I inspected the crawlspace, at least a third of the piers were not in full contact with the support beams.

Which leads me to my next question.

There is a gap between the front and rear marriage lines.
Are these gaps normal?

The front section of the house has an approximate gap of 1/2 inch between the marriage line.
The rear section has an approximate gap of at least 1 full inch.

Then, there is an unfinished chase in a bedroom closet that the manufacture said they never finish. It has a cut out in the floor and in the ceiling.
The framing is open and was left that way. A sheet of plastic was left over the hole in the floor and a piece of plywood covers the ceiling.

Is this normal?

One final question. The manufacture did not run any cable wires in the junction boxes for the cable company to use.

According to the owner, the cable guy came out to hook up the cable and said the interior boxes are empty and he would have to run the cable wire under the house. The cable guy said that is not normal.
Again, the manufacturer said this is how they do it.

Does anyone know?

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There are several things going on.
1) Poor workmanship, poorly set-up, poorly finished, work incomplete.
2) Did you check the level of the MF home?
I worked construction for 17 years and moved all over the state in our M Home and the last year in a manufactured home which I set-up myself after each move. Both are similar but the manufactured home should be set on a raised foundation (hopefully level) -normal settlement is expected. A Mobil Home is generally set on post and piers and the workmanship can be a problem if not done correctly.
The pictures (in my opinion are normal and consistent with poor workmanship). The home just was not set-up properly.:(

Good to see compassion for a client.
Gaps and cracks may be normal to poor construction/installation, but not right.
What was in the purchase contract? MFG & Installer will only work to min of contract.

Sounds like there are some real defects in construction/installation of house. Were sections bolted together correctly? Correct foundation/footers for load in relation to soil conditions? Everything level, straight and plumb per laser levels?
If the house has any problems now there will be more in the future, one problem aggravates another.

The manufacture will always say every concern is normal. If the buyer accept it then the manufacture is off the hook. If the buyer waits long enough then the Manufacture will be beyond the time line for any litigation.

1) Make sure that you cover your liability for missing any defects that you may have not noted in your first original inspection, even if you have to go back over the house again to make sure.
2) Make sure that you speak from the point of an expert only to the extent of your capabilities, experience and professional background.
3) The home owner should start having the Manufacture respond in writing (no hearsay).
4) Suggest that the home owner retain a good attorney, money spent now will save more later.
5) Get Structural Eng involved now.
6) Get County Inspectors back to reinspect and get their reports in writing.
7) Get into the litigation frame of mind.
8) As the inspector get prepared to be involved in court and depositions. Home owner may turn on you to protect their interests. If nothing else the manufacturer/installer will be after you.

I have seen where installers take the quickest fastest way to join the pieces. Many will just crank each bolt down all the way torquing the walls instead of drawing the pieces together evenly. The fact that some of the structure wasn't resting on the piers suggests these modules may not be mated properly.

Be careful on choosing structural engineers as many aren't familiar with manufactured/ modular homes. Have this client find one with experience or they will pay for this expert to come up to speed. I witnessed this recently and the homeowner was into the SE for $3,500 just documenting the issues. I don't even want to know what the lawyer fees were.....

Rick
Oak Harbor Home Inspections

Do you guys understand that this is a double wide HOUSE TRAILER and not a Modular Home?
The local code officials have the jurisdiction over the installation of this trailer. It's brand new and under warranty.
The State of South Carolina has laws in effect that will protect the homeowner. No home inspector will have any liability in this issue.

What I normally see if the house comes with the wall covering installed then it is mobile home. If the walls are finished on-site it is a modular home. Both type of homes normally come with a label stating where and how they were built. I would look for the label under the kitchen sink, near the inside panel, or near the water heater....but it could be anywhere.

What Are Modular Homes?

• Modular homes are built in sections at a factory.
• Modular homes are built to conform to all state, local or regional building codes at their destinations.
• Sections are transported to the building site on truck beds, then joined together by local contractors.
• Local building inspectors check to make sure a modular home's structure meets requirements and that all finish work is done properly.
• Modular homes are sometimes less expensive per square foot than site built houses.
• A well-built modular home should have the same longevity as its site-built counterpart, increasing in value over time.

What Are Manufactured Homes?

• Formerly referred to as mobile homes or trailers, but with many more style options than in the past.
• Manufactured houses are built in a factory.
• They conform to a Federal building code, called the HUD code, rather than to building codes at their destinations.
• Manufactured homes are built on a non-removable steel chassis.
• Sections are transported to the building site on their own wheels.
• Multi-part manufactured units are joined at their destination.
• Segments are not always placed on a permanent foundation, making them more difficult to re-finance.
• Building inspectors check the work done locally (electric hook up, etc.) but are not required to approve the structure.
• Manufactured housing is generally less expensive than site built and modular homes.
• Manufactured homes sometimes decrease in value over time.

From Janet on "about.com"

Bob W.
Wes stated that "This is a modular home." , not manufactured/ mobile/double wide house trailer, unless I missed something.

Either way the problems on the interior my opinion, are a result of the contractor that set up or installed the different sections to create the home.

I would still make the assertion that the HI involved to treat the job as an experienced professional listing all safety and structural concerns that they find, in detail with photo support.

I would further recommend that ((( to protect the HI ))) the owner take all actions needed to determine the causes and the effects, current and future, that may be causing the interior stresses that are demonstrated by the separations of materials and fractured surfaces. Further, that a SE (experienced with that specific type of construction) be contracted to sign off that all structure and foundation are correct.

Bottom line it all boils down to support and installation causing interior problems. Construction is all about time and money. To few put quality ahead of profit.

Garry you don't get it either. Wes doesn't get it. The term "Modular Home" is misused every day as it is in this case. The "trailer" came in 2 pieces and the frame sets on blocks. It is HUD approved and therefore no interior inspection is done by the building inspector or any other inspector. The 4 wire electrical feeder is installed and checked by the electrical inspector. Outside plumbing and mechanical are connected and the interconnect is done on site. In many cases JUNK plugs are used to connect the electrical wiring together from one half to the other half. If the trim isn't right it's the factory that is at fault. No inspector is going to make the factory do anything about this. The homeowner and the dealer must deal with the factory. Sloppy setup can be rectified this way as well. If the dealer refuses to take care of these problems complain to the agency who licenses the dealers and installers. Michigan has a Mobile Home Commission. I'm sure South Carolina has something similar. Threatening their licenses will get amazing results without going to court. Don't give the money to the lawyers. Let the system take care of the problem correctly. There are logical steps to take here.

Bob,

A 2 storey is a modular. Never seen manufactured home with a attic. Read post 12#