Service / pedestrian door to interior of home must have a self closing hinge installed right?

House was built in 2002. The hinge is now failing

Hinge only closed door 1/3 of the way and I called it. Now I have a realtor all over me stating that this is no longer a requirement.

Either way, the hinge is no longer functioning properly.

Has something changed that I am not aware of?

Trey,

Yes... unfortunately, the realtor is correct (sigh-- hate to say that).

The self-closing feature was a requiremet with the old CABO one and two family dwelling code.

The IRC has now omitted this previous requirement.

Rich

__________________
"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Does not matter.

The code the house was constructed under applies to the house for the life of the house, except for new stuff, for which the new code in effect at the time applies (this is what Rich was saying) ... HOWEVER ...

Being as this WAS required, it STILL IS required, and, if not working, the Building Official *could* (however unlikely and remote that is) do the following: (This is from the old Standard Building Code.)

B103.5 UNSAFE BUILDINGS OR SYSTEMS. All buildings, structures, electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing systems which are unsafe, unsanitary, or do not provide adequate egress, or which constitute a fire hazard, or are otherwise dangerous to human life, or which in relation to existing use, constitute a hazard to safety or health, are considered unsafe buildings or service systems. All such unsafe buildings, structures or service systems are hereby declared illegal and shall be abated by repair and rehabilitation or by demolition in accordance with the provisions of the Standard Unsafe Building Abatement Code.

Ask the agent if they would like the Building Official to come out and determine if it is as safe today as was required when it was constructed, then add 'It is likely that those hinges only need some adjustment, see those holes there, and that pin?'

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

I moved to TN in 1994 and have probably seen maybe 3 self closing doors here. Coming from CA I was used to seeing them and asked the Building Official about it.

He said that they did not enforce that part of the code. I quit writing them up.
JF

Interresting dillema for all you code gurus, do you go by code or common sense?

Define "common". Whose?

Not much of a dilemma actually. If there is a set of self-closing hinges present and they are not functioning and providing their originally intended service, then write that up as a problem.

If there are no self-closing hinges present and none are required (by code or otherwise) then there is no problem and nothing to be written up.

The key as a generalist inspector is to look and see what is there and determine if its working or not. If its there and does not work as intended, you write it up as inoperative and move on irrespective of what the current code might say about its necessity.

Phillip, I understand your point, I just think its wierd that something we have been advising as unsafe a year ago is suddenly OK because somebody else tells us it is. That's what I meant by "common sense", not meaning to imply that anybody is stupid.

I'm sure there are a lot more compelling issues than loose screws on a door closer. I concur with Phillip's advice.

__________________
Jerry McCarthy
Construction Consultant
www.expertbuildingconsultants.com

The 2006 IBC, 406.1.4 Separation, now calls for doors to be self closing and self latching.

Jeff Euriech
Peoria, Arizona

The IRC does not.

The IRC applies to one-and-two family dwelling units, the IBC does not.

If you are addressing a dwelling unit condo with its own garage, the IBC would apply.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

Yes... but you will be hard pressed to find many jurisdictions that goes by the International Building Code vs the International Residential Code.

I do completely agree with Philip. If it's there already... it either is functional or not-- irrespective of when it was installed.

Rich

__________________
"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Yes, and that's a problem that should be fixed in the IRC immediately. Last week here in New Port Richey (FL) two teenagers died in their beds when a running vehicle in the garage poisoned them with carbon monoxide fumes. If anything needs to be a hard requirement this is it. I will write up this discrepancy as a serious safety hazard from now on.

When I find the door has no closer or the closer is not working I write it up as a recommended improvement to maintain fire separation and prevent fumes in the garage from entering the living area.

__________________
"Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
Bruce Breedlove
www.avaloninspection.com

Bruce,

That choice of words could get you into big trouble.

You are stating that *there is* "fire separation" between the house and the garage, which implies a "fire wall" or a "fire partition", neither of which is present, nor intended.

I recommend you simply state 'recommended improvement to help prevent fumes in the garage from entering the living area.'.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

Good advice as usual, Jerry. Much appreciated.

__________________
"Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
Bruce Breedlove
www.avaloninspection.com

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