Fire separation house-garage - InspectionNews

Matt Fellman · #1 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 01:48 PM

The picture is of a cover slapped up by the builer (new construction) that goes over the sprinkler valves. It's on a shared portion of the wall with a bedroom directly on the other side.

Of couse this is wrong but I'm wondering what I am supposed to be seeing. Do they make access panels that maintain the fire rating? Should the sprinkler equipment be located elsewhere? Outside of the wall rather than inside?

I don't see a lot of sprinkler systems in the houses in my area. They're just starting to require them on flag lots and anything over 4 units attched. The ones I've seen in the past have been on non-shared walls and/or mounted on rather than in the wall. Any thoughts/suggestions??

Clarification - It's a fire spinkler... not a lawn system

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

Do they make access panels that maintain the fire rating?

Yes.

But ...

That wall has no "fire rating", it is not a "fire rated wall", it is simply 1/2" gypsum board "separation".

That said, and based on your statement: "Clarification - It's a fire spinkler... not a lawn system.", that cover should be hinged to allow access. Not that it is code (that I am aware of, because I've looked for a project where ... never mind, it gets complicated) but that it is 'the right thing to do to provide ready access to the fire sprinkler system valves and controls (I am presuming that is what is in there).

Technically, one could install a panel of 1/2" gypsum board as a cover and meet minimum code.

Quote:

Should the sprinkler equipment be located elsewhere? Outside of the wall rather than inside?

I guess I need to ask for clarification first, before continuing ...

You said: "It's on a shared portion of the wall with a bedroom directly on the other side.", do you mean:
a) a bedroom belonging to the same unit as the garage belongs to, or
b) a bedroom belonging to a different unit than the garage belongs to?

*IF* a), what I've stated above is correct.

*IF* b), what I've stated above is all wrong.

Clarification, please.

Jerry McCarthy · #3 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 06:21 PM

That opening inside of the fire rated wall requires the same protection as the fire wall it self, but as Jerry P said, we don't have enough info to help answer your question?
BTW, that white PVC serving the WH PTRV is wrong, which I'm sure you spotted and reported.

Rick Hurst · #4 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 07:44 PM

Good eye, Jerry Mc.

Shouldn't they insulate those water lines also?

They'll freeze in the winter being out in a garage don't you think.

rick

Jerry Peck · #5 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 07:55 PM

Jerry Mc., Rick,

I think that's CPVC, see that slightly darker gold stripe down the pipe - it's Flowguard Gold.

CPVC is allowed for T&P discharge and drain lines.

Of course, though, it should not be within 6" of the draft hood.

Brandon Whitmore · #6 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 09:16 PM

Hi Jerry,

Will you point me to the requirement that says that you can not have the CPVC pipe within 6" of the draft hood-- I would appreciate it.

Anyone ever seen this CPVC installation close to a draft hood for a water heater cause any problems out of curiosity?

Thanks

Matt Fellman · #7 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 10:31 PM

Yep, cpvc... I've never heard the 6" thing either. I see installs like this all the time... I suppose that doesn't make it right... just that it's common around here. It would seem that water heater manufacturers would have to postion the relief valve far enough away from the venting to allow for mainstream pluming materials to be used... Or at least if they wanted to sell their product they should.

For clarification.. it's a single family residence. Through the wall is a bedroom for that residence.

Jerry Peck · #8 (**permalink**) 09-28-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore

Will you point me to the requirement that says that you can not have the CPVC pipe within 6" of the draft hood-- I would appreciate it.

The 6" clearance required for the draft hood - 6" clearance to combustible material.

Type B gas vent is double wall and has a 1" clearance, Type A (I think it's called) is single wall and requires 6" clearance.

Bob Harper would have the specifics on that.

Brandon Whitmore · #9 (**permalink**) 09-28-2007, 08:23 PM

Thanks Jerry,

hmmmm..... do I start calling this one out on new construction

Matt Fellman · #10 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Eastman

Doesn't look the CVPC where it leaves the PRV valve is sloped to drain the water, looks horizontal to me. Also, should not there be a 12 " rise on the vent pipe before the turn.

And, the water supply line looks like it is contacting the vent.

Oh God! No, No..... Not the 12" rise debate again.... There are about 10 threads and 10000 comments about this issue somewhere in the archives of this board....

Brandon Whitmore · #11 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Oh God! No, No..... Not the 12" rise debate again.... There are about 10 threads and 10000 comments about this issue somewhere in the archives of this board....

Last I heard this discussed on another forum, there was only one manufacturer that had the recommendation for the 12" rise in their installation instructions. (can't remember the manufacturer).

Jerry Peck · #12 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Eastman

Doesn't look the CVPC where it leaves the PRV valve is sloped to drain the water, looks horizontal to me.

Looks sloped to me.

Quote:

Also, should not there be a 12 " rise on the vent pipe before the turn.

Yes, there should be a 12" rise before the first bend.

Brandon Whitmore · #13 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 02:30 PM

JERRY SAID:

Quote:

Yes, there should be a 12" rise before the first bend.

Jerry, is there any specific code or manufacturers installation instructions you can point me toward that says there must be a 12" rise before the first bend? I am not arguing as to whether or not it would be a good idea, just wanting some solid reference/ proof. (for an industry standard as a whole-- not just one individual manufacturer).

Thanks

Jerry Peck · #14 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 07:00 PM

Go to the vent sizing tables, Table G2428.3(1) [504.3(1)] (Jerry's note: Table G2428.3(1) is in the IRC, Table 504.3(1) is the same exact table in the Fuel Gas code, the title tells you where the IRC table is from - "G" means "gas code".)

Then the next table, and the next table, and the next, etc. - what do you see stated as the minimum connector rise height in feet?

*EVERYTHING* starts off with a 1 foot rise minimum and goes up from there.

Brandon Whitmore · #15 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 10:09 PM

Jerry, thanks once again.

Jeff Euriech · #16 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 09:25 AM

Keep in mind that Table G2428.3(1) is for multiple vents (two or more) and would not apply for a single water heater.

Jeff Euriech
Peoria Arizona

Jerry Peck · #17 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Euriech

Keep in mind that Table G2428.3(1) is for multiple vents (two or more) and would not apply for a single water heater.

Keep in mind that I am presuming you are addressing all related to those tables, like you should, and if you went to Appendix B (IFGS) you will have see the drawings showing all ... ALL ... *ALL* ... appliances with that same vertical riser before and horizontal run.

No, that vertical rise is not specifically stated as to its height, however, if you view, for example, Figures B-17 and B-18 you will notice that one rise is "2 ft" and the other rise is to the connector of the first one is "3 ft", and, looking at the drawings you will see that the rise of the second one to its horizontal offset is '1 ft' (3 ft - 2 ft = 1 ft), then, reviewing back through the other figures, you will notice that same rise, or higher, before any horizontal run.