Closers on 20 minute rated doors - InspectionNews

Wulff Jordan · #1 (**permalink**) 05-24-2008, 12:54 PM

Greetings,

Under the CBC 2001 code, for a detatched single family residence, when are self-closers required on 20-minute rated doors? Always or just in certain circumstances? If only in certain circumstances, what are those?

Thanks, Wulff

Jerry McCarthy · #2 (**permalink**) 05-24-2008, 03:02 PM

Wulff
Refer CBC 2001 302.4 (3) and CBC 2007 406.1.4 Separation (1).

Jerry Peck · #3 (**permalink**) 05-24-2008, 07:05 PM

Jerry M.,

Could you post that wording?

Thanks.

Jerry McCarthy · #4 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 09:23 AM

CBC 2007 Section 406.1.4 (1) (2) (3)

Wulff Jordan · #5 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 09:46 AM

Let me clarify, the applicable code for our project is 2001 CBC. Also, our condition is not a garage, but rather storage in a basement with occupied spaces above and adjacent. The plan check comment came back stating to proivde 1-hr seperation between the storage and occupied spaces, including a 20-minute door. It did not reference a code section and did not mention if a self closing door was required. Is there a code section specifically addressing this condition? If so, please provide the language.

Much thanks, Wulff

Jerry McCarthy · #6 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 10:16 AM

Wulff
What they are asking for doesn't sound unreasonable to me. You didn't mention what type of occupancy was above the storage area or who or what the storage area was for? I would suggest you comply with what the local jurisdiction has requested and forget about the self-closer for the storeroom entry door because you may have bigger battles down the line.

If you want help on this home inspector BB you should provide more background details to your questions as our codes books are not small and some codes take a lot of time to locate. In California, as I’m sure you’re aware, we have 2 very large volumes what I call the “double hernia” CA codes. I also suggest you try the ICC web site under "Code Talk" - Bulletin Board.

Wulff Jordan · #7 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 12:06 PM

Jerry,
Thanks for the info. My mistake about incomplete information. I thought I mentioned earlier the project is a detatched single family residence, but maybe not. The storage is below and adjacent to occupied spaces (Den, Bathroom, Mudroom, Pantry, Kitchen, Wine Cellar). So we have several doors affected by this. We have no problem with providing the 20-minute rating. It is the self-closing requirement we are trying to get clarified and hope to avoid. Right now, we are just not sure if they are even reqruied. I will check out the ICC BB as well.

Thanks again, Wulff

Jerry McCarthy · #8 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 02:25 PM

Wulff
If this is just a single family residential dwelling with no attached garage where are they pulling the requirements for fire resistant walls, ceilings and doors at a basement level from? The only place in an R-3 res dwelling where fire protected walls are required is when the building is within a certain distance of the property line. The 2007 CBC has many of the same requirements at the 2006 IRC, see attachments.

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

CBC 2007 Section 406.1.4 (1) (2) (3)

Jerry M.,

I see it is at the end of (1). That's what makes having one code (the ICC codes) so fundamentally flawed ... the idea of having one code, that is ... each state, even AHJ, adds or takes away from the code, making it no longer 'one code'.

That's why we have to keep learning.

Thank you.

Jerry McCarthy · #10 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008, 08:45 AM

The day I know it all no one will give a dam because I'll be dead! Or, the more you now, the more you know you don't know. Just wish I had been a better student while in school instead of being devoted to sports and eyeballing the chicks. I like the Chinese saying: "there are two perfect men, one dead, the other unborn." Oh well, perhaps a trip to Delphi would help?