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Hi Guys,
I quickly looked for a similar answer, but didn't see it. Writing report and need some quick input please.
The dryer vent terminates in a garage. I know it's supposed to terminate "outside of the home" is this considered outside? Also, I will mention the issue of compromising the firewall.
I just need clarification on if a dryer vent can terminate in a garage.
Thanks!
Dave
You are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hill
Nope.Quote:
... is this considered outside?
Actually says: (bold and underlining are mine)
- M1502.2 Duct termination. Exhaust ducts shall terminate on the outside of the building. Exhaust duct terminations shall be in accordance with the dryer manufacturer’s installation instructions. Exhaust ducts shall terminate not less than 3 feet (914 mm) in any direction from openings into buildings. Exhaust duct terminations shall be equipped with a backdraft damper. Screens shall not be installed at the duct termination.
The garage is still inside "the building".
- BUILDING. Building shall mean any one- and two-family dwelling or portion thereof, including townhouses, that is used, or designed or intended to be used for human habitation, for living, sleeping, cooking or eating purposes, or any combination thereof, and shall include accessory structures thereto.
From a common sense approach, The dryer vent into the garage is a safety issue for CO gas from vehicles into the living space and a break in the fire suppression between the house and garage.
Not to mention you'd be discharging humid air indoors which is definitely not Kosher - it's a Conducive Condition - contributes to the development of Wood Destroying Organisms and Insects.......Similar to my Old Lady warpin' the bathroom door and causing the floor to squeak because she don't like the noise of the exhaust fan while wallowin' in the tub !!! :D
The garage must be fire separated from the house. Is there a fire damper in dryer vent duct at the fire separation wall between house and garage?
Dave, This is my report verbage:
There is a dryer duct that terminates in the garage. This is a safety hazard and a moisture problem. Vehicle exhaust fumes may enter living space through duct. Dryer duct will cause increased moisture levels and possible damage in garage. A qualified HVAC contractor should evaluate and relocate dryer duct to terminate at exterior.
It's seldom mentioned but take a look at the listed chemicals on the detergent and softener bottles - the listings is basically absent. There's all kinds of nasties that emanate from laundry equipment. It's bad enough that we have to wear clothes that have been saturated in the stuff but breathing in the evaporated ingredients is something to really avoid.
When I lived in Central Mississippi is was very common for the various builders to route the dryer vent into the garage; many even used PVC pipe... I would say that it was common practice in that area of the country from the the early 1990's to around 2000 to do it that way. Why, I have no idea but I sure did get tired of writing it up. Finally the builders got the point (I really think they got tired of the home inspectors writing it up) that they started to vent it to the exterior of the home, some still used Sch 40 PVC! That took a few more years to get them all to using metal vent pipe.
Then they went to the absurd but approved vertical dryer vent that discharges at the roof! If they would only stop and think of the laundry location and that it needs to be on an outside wall then life would be so much easier.
Hey Dave you see that allot out here particularly when the garage was originally a carport. I say all the same things others have posted. I also point out the effect it has on dusting the car with lint.
Fire separation is not required between the garage and the living space, just "separation", and while that difference is just one word ... it makes a HUGE difference in what is required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Chow
The dryer duct does not require a damper, if it is made of the proper metal it is supposed to be constructed of, then all it needs is to be sealed around where it penetrates through the wall. Besides, you would not want any type of damper in a clothes dryer duct - instead, if fire separation was required, construct a fire-rated chase or shaft around the dryer duct, but no damper "in" the dryer duct.
Why would you need "A qualified HVAC contractor should evaluate and relocate dryer duct to terminate at exterior."
Call one up and ask them about evaluating/relocating a dryer duct. When they stop laughing they may agree to do it in the fall/winter when they have some slack time.
I have never seen a "A qualified HVAC contractor" install a dryer duct.
Maybe its a requirement in Az?
Because the clothes dryer "duct" is part of the HVAC system, and HVAC contractors install the HVAC "system".Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_John Smith
Any state which has licensing probably requires it.
And for new construction and remodeling - either the HVAC contractor does it or it fails inspection. Yes, a permit is required, and an inspection, how else is one to know that it was installed properly?
Now, if a clothes dryer is being installed in an existing house ... who knows who will install the duct, probably a "handyman", but - an HVAC contractor SHOULD be the person to pull the permit (yes, it needs a permit then too) and install the clothes dryer duct. I'm not referring to the "connector" between the clothes dryer and the duct, but the "duct" itself.
Why do you think it is in the mechanical code and in the mechanical section of the residential code? Because it is part of the mechanical system. And who installs the mechanical system? An HVAC contractor.
I thought I should add this too (I may have missed it, but I don't see "ductwork" or "clothes dryer duct" in the following "work exempt from permit"):
- R105.2 Work exempt from permit. Permits shall not be required for the following. Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction.
- - Mechanical:
- - - 1. Portable heating appliances.
- - - 2. Portable ventilation appliances.
- - - 3. Portable cooling units.
- - - 4. Steam, hot or chilled water piping within any heating or cooling equipment regulated by this code.
- - - 5. Replacement of any minor part that does not alter approval of equipment or make such equipment unsafe.
- - - 6. Portable evaporative coolers.
- - - 7. Self-contained refrigeration systems containing 10 pounds (4.54 kg) or less of refrigerant or that are actuated by motors of 1 horsepower (746 W) or less.
- - - 8. Portable-fuel-cell appliances that are not connected to a fixed piping system and are not interconnected to a power grid.
- - - The stopping of leaks in drains, water, soil, waste or vent pipe; provided, however, that if any concealed trap, drainpipe, water, soil, waste or vent pipe becomes defective and it becomes necessary to remove and replace the same with new material, such work shall be considered as new work and a permit shall be obtained and inspection made as provided in this code.
- - - The clearing of stoppages or the repairing of leaks in pipes, valves or fixtures, and the removal and reinstallation of water closets, provided such repairs do not involve or require the replacement or rearrangement of valves, pipes or fixtures.
Just to be clear, I am NOT commenting on the home-inspector-school-taught-and-widely-used: - "should evaluate"
... when the statement should be "should repair/replace".
I am only commenting on WHO should install the clothes dryer duct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
They have a few of the roof discharges here. Lint gets discharged on the roof and sits up there in a pile.
Good place for a fire to start. :eek:
BTW, I don't know if this is a franchise operating in other areas, but there is a good size company here in Chicago called "Mr Duct":
Mr. Duct | Dryer Vent Cleaning | Dryer Cleaners | Dryer Duct Cleaner | Chicago, IL and Chicago Suburbs |
that does a very competent job of cleaning/correcting/installing dryer venting.
My good friend is in the middle of a remodel and found the dryer duct vented into the attic. The HVAC contractor is reconfiguring the duct to vent ouside. There were 15,000 fires from dryer ducts last year and it is not a trivial thing. I find it so important that I also include this link in my reports:
http://www.laundry-alternative.com/clothes_dryer_fire.htm
I've been seeing PVC (schedule 40) being used as dryer vent material a lot more commonly lately for some reason. I write it up every time, including the very common mylar foil, and very common vinyl tubing. When will people learn that this should be rigid metal? Just Friday I had a daylong argument with a listing agent who was "100% sure his seller had the proper material and that I didn't know what I was talking about". I went back and took another photo to show the flexible mylar foil stuff and emailed it to the buyer, buyer's agent, and listing agent. I am not expecting an apology from the listing agent, though. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
I've found that the best thing to do is pull out the installation instructions (obtain one online from a manufacturer - it is easier) and highlight the part where it states what may be used for the connector and what may be used for the duct ... and, more importantly, highlight where it says not to use the plastic and mylar foil types. I've only seen two approved types of material for either the connector or the duct:Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Steger
- rigid metal (galvanized steel) for either connector use or for duct use
- flexible metal (that bendable aluminum stuff which crushes easily if not handled with care) for connector use only
I have personally never seen an HVAC contractor install one in Houston area on new construction. In Texas, they are ACR (air Conditioning and refrigeration) license holders (techs or air conditioning contractors).
I don't believe installing dryer ducts is within their realm, although Im sure several would do it to make a buck or two. Im sure they could botch a dryer duct install just as well as they do a lot of AC installs.
Whomever is licensed to install the ductwork would be the ones to install ... the duct work ;) ... for the clothes dryer exhaust as it is the exhaust duct for clothes dryer (unless specifically stated otherwise in the licensing laws).Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_John Smith
Who installs ductwork for heating/air conditioning in Texas?
Who installs heating in Texas?
What makes you think heating isnt a form of air conditioning?
It is, but you were the one who said they were not HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning) contractors, that they were just ACR (Air Conditioning and Refrigeration), and since you let the heating out, I figured the heating was left out.Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_John Smith
Okay, so here is another question for you: Being as you left out the "V" (Ventilation), are or are not ACR (as you called them) contractors also the ones who install and work on ventilation systems?
If they are, by any other name they are still HVAC contractors and that is the building industry wide accepted name for them.
If they are not ventilation contractors too, then who is?
Are you telling me that ACR *includes* "H" and "V" in all but the name? If so, then referring to what they do as HVAC is CORRECT.
Just trying to figure out why you are saying they do not do that work and that they are ACR but at not only ACR? I realize Texas does things bassackward at time (just look at the TREIA standards), but just because the name is bassackward does not mean the name does not apply.
By the way, this: Texas refers to them as HVAC contractors and this: Texas refers to what they do as HVAC ... guess I answered my own question, and that I was correct in using HVAC. :)
Texas doesnt refer to "them" as HVAC, TDLR "Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation" sets the requirements for Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Contractors.
When President Perry gets in office, we will get this all sorted out.......
You mean Flash-In-The-Pan Perry. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by imported_John Smith
All sizzle and no meat. :)
Guess that's from cooking out in that ol' Texas sun so long? :D
Thanks for recommending us Michael! We are a Chicago dryer vent cleaning firm for now, so we wouldn't be able to help out in this instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas
Still, there is a solution: re-route the dryer vent. I know that there is some back and forth going on about whether you would need an HVAC contractor out for that. Honestly, it's not the heating part that is as important as is the sheet metal fabrication part. Most HVAC contractors are ideal for dryer vent re-routing jobs because they regularly construct and adjust metal, aluminium, and flex ducting through a sheet metal fabrication department. We have a Chicago HVAC department, which is why we're able to do dryer vent repair. The original poster should look for a dryer vent company that also has an HVAC department OR has sheet metal fab experience.
Keep in mind that some interior remodeling might need to be done, so having a handyman onboard with the project would be good. Hope this helps!
I wrote this same situation up last week. Looking in my Code Check under Fire Protection, Separation & Protection from Garage, 06 IRC 309.1.1 and 97UBC 302.4X states "No duct openings into garage". Seems pretty clear to me.
**Thread resurrection**
Does anyone know what year dryer vents were required to terminate outside? A realtor is trying to tell me it has been in the last 10-12 years. I can't believe that but I was wrong once.
I don't know the answer but I doubt her.
So "The Realtor " is telling you that this dryer vent was not required until 10 , 12 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Thompson
Great let them Prove it.
*the report stands till then.:D
[QUOTE=JB Thompson;245884]**Thread resurrection**
Does anyone know what year dryer vents were required to terminate outside? A realtor is trying to tell me it has been in the last 10-12 years. I can't believe that but I was wrong once.
I don't know the answer but I doubt her.[/QUOTE]
As I recall, it was 1 A.D. :)
(After Dryer invented)
1992 CABO (M-1904.3) says: ...shall convey the products of combustion and moisture to the outdoors.Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Thompson
1986 CABO (M-1111) says: When domestic dryers are installed in habitable rooms or in rooms containing other fuel burning appliances, the moisture exhaust duct shall terminate outside the building.
2000 IRC also requires exhaust to terminate outside.
Apparently it has been a long time.