Food disposal question - InspectionNews

Rick Cantrell · #1 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 04:35 PM

Should a food disposal be used on a septic tank system?

While I'm on disposals.
Is a shutoff switch required for a batch type disposal?
If it is, then why use a batch type disposal at all?

Thanks

Jon Randolph · #2 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 06:37 PM

I have not seen the batch type disposals, but a quick google search confirmed that the switch is present in the hopper and activated by the plunger. I would think that a 2nd switch would be redundant, but I am no expert.

No, there should not be a disposal on a home with a septic system.

Michael Larson · #3 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 06:42 PM

Insinkerator makes a line of disposals intended for use on septic systems. LINK

Jerry Peck · #4 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 07:13 PM

Rick,

"Is a shutoff switch required for a batch type disposal?"

This is in the installation instructions for GE batch type disposers: "Turn the power switch (normally a wall switch) to the off position before attempting to clear a jam or remove an object from the disposer.", and this "When not operating a disposer, leave the drain stopper in place to reduce the risk of objects falling into the disposer."

Those two tell me that a wall switch (or other switch) is necessary for proper installation and operation of both types of disposers.

Rick Cantrell · #5 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 04:40 AM

Thanks

Matt Fellman · #6 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 08:53 AM

A lot of plumbers will tell you that there shouldn't be a disposal on ANY plumbing system.... of course, some plumbers are just cranky.

I think a lot of people expect more from disposals then they are capable of and run into trouble. Just because you can cram it down the hole doesn't mean it's okay to do so.

Eric Barker · #7 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 10:09 AM

For those that like to be up on their terminology:

The proper term is disposer. Disposal is General Electric's brand name. Not much different than saying hot water heater.

Jerry Peck · #8 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

For those that like to be up on their terminology:

The proper term is disposer.

Actually ... the proper term is "food waste grinder".

Quote:

Not much different than saying hot water heater.

Yeah, I've always wondered why one would *heat* *hot water* - it's really a 'water heater' instead of 'hot water heater'. I know, some architects still show them on the plans as HWH, and some older-than-I-am old fogies still call them 'hot water heaters', but this is the 'post-ice-age' where we have progressed beyond starting fires by rubbing two sticks together.

Russel Ray · #9 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 01:45 AM

My family and I have had great success using bio-additives in our septic systems. All of us use disposals/disposers/food waste grinders. Note that I come from a very, very, very large family (Mormons and Catholics) and very rural (Texas, Idaho, and Utah) family. Figured I would open that can of worms for everyone.

My water heater is, indeed, also a hot water heater by the very nature of the fact that it is a tank water heater and not a tankless water heater. Several years ago when this topic came up here and elsewhere, I determined that the thermostat setting on my Richmond water heater is about 6°F increments with the manufacturer's recommended setting providing water that is at about 121°F. Consequently, when the water temperature in the tank get to about 115°F, the thermostat causes the burners to light to heat up the 115°F water back to 121°F. The last time I held my little ol' finger under 115°F water, it was, indeed, hot. Ergo, our tank water heaters are, indeed, hot water heaters. A great reason to go to a tankless water heater when next you need a water heater; prevents a lot of wasted energy heating that hot water to an even hotter temperature.

Michael Thomas · #10 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 03:36 AM

FWIW Evanston, IL - which is usually pretty persnickety about electrical matters - did not require a dedicated disconnect means for the batch FWG in my kitchen.

Jerry Peck · #11 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

FWIW Evanston, IL - which is usually pretty persnickety about electrical matters, did not require a dedicated disconnect means for the batch FWG in my kitchen.

Michael,

I'm guessing it does ... is your food waste grinder cord and plug connected?

If 'Yes.', that is your disconnect.

If 'No.', then I am wrong (again).

However, that said, what is being discussed is not 'the disconnect' but 'a switch'.

Say your batch food waste grinder clogs up ... turning the switch off would allow you to 'un-stick' it with having to unplug it or turn the breaker off.

Robert Dalga · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 05:55 AM

I've lived in three homes now (two of which I built and the other one was an extensive remodel) all of which were on septic systems. They all had garbage disposers (two in fact in one of the homes). I have had no septic problems over the years (5 - 15yrs). However, when I'm inspecting homes on septic systems and I run across a disposer in the kitchen (which by the way is quite frequent), I recommend to the client(s) not to over use it (meaning don't throw everything down them).

Michael Thomas · #13 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 06:54 AM

Jerry,

The GE instructions operating instructions apply to both the batch and continuous feed models, as do the installation instructions.

The installation instructions (pp 2) say:

"Most houses have electrical outlets under the sink that are half-hot. This means one outlet is controlled by the wall switch, while the other is always hot. The batch-feed or “TC” model connects to the hot side, while the continuous feed model connects to the switch side."

This implies to me that at least as far as the manufacturer is concerned, these models do not require a switch.

http://products.geappliances.com/App.../r02488v-1.pdf

Martin Baker · #14 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 08:52 AM

Should a food disposal be used on a septic tank system?
No

While I'm on disposals.
Is a shutoff switch required for a batch type disposal?
Yes
If it is, then why use a batch type disposal at all?
The switch may be installed out of sight.

Martin

Roger P · #15 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 09:01 AM

New guy on the block here - - - so please correct me if my understanding of this matter is incorrect.

The reason that a "Waste Disposer" is not recommended in a home utilizing a septic systems is that the septic system may not be of sufficent capacity / size to handle the added water volume.

However, a system may be designed / spec'd to allow for the use of such waste units.

So, one may have to confirm the actual size of the current system and do some calculations to know with any certainty if the unit may or may not be an issue.

Anyway, that's my take on the matter.....

Oh ya, great site - thanks for all the info!

David Banks · #16 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger P

New guy on the block here - - - so please correct me if my understanding of this matter is incorrect.

The reason that a "Waste Disposer" is not recommended in a home utilizing a septic systems is that the septic system may not be of sufficient capacity / size to handle the added water volume.

However, a system may be designed / spec'd to allow for the use of such waste units.

So, one may have to confirm the actual size of the current system and do some calculations to know with any certainty if the unit may or may not be an issue.

Anyway, that's my take on the matter.....

Oh ya, great site - thanks for all the info!

Try this link. Scroll to bottom.
Avoid Garbage Disposal Problems by Limiting the Waste Going Down the Sink, plus Odor Tips

EPA PDF- Page 11 Using a disposal frequently can significantly increase accumulation of sludge and scum in your tank and result in need of more frequent pumping.
http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/homeow..._customize.pdf

Roger P · #17 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:01 AM

The whole purpose of that article seems to be to push the idea of recycling and composting, which are great; and, I do more than my share in those areas.

But it did not address the posters ?Q - can a waste disposer be used with a septic system?

The following except from that article is, in my opinion, not completely accurate -

"Here are a couple of things to consider:

The ground-up waste does NOT go back to nature's water supply to be gobbled up by fish and other life forms. It must first pass through the sewage-treatment plant (or your septic system). This not only increases the load on our already overburdened sewage-treatment facilities, the process also removes any food value the waste might have had further down the line."

How do they know if it will overburden any system when they have no idea what size the systm is, how many people are using it, etc. = answer, they don't.

Yes, any added material may require a more frequent pumping of the system. But, depending on which camp one is in, "how frequent" is also up for dispute.

Why can't things be simple

Chad Fabry · #18 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

For those that like to be up on their terminology:

The proper term is disposer. Disposal is General Electric's brand name. Not much different than saying hot water heater.

Hi Eric,

Just last week I spent a LOT of time on the phone and internet researching that bit of information. To the best of my ability and belief, I must state that it's just not true.

Garbage disposal and garbage disposer are not trademarked or trade names. All variants that are commonly used are acceptable. "Garbage Disposal" is by far the most popular and is used by EVERY manufacturer that I could think of. It's also the most common term in dictionaries and such.

If anyone has any evidence otherwise, I'd be happy to be wrong just to know the truth.

It'd be like Kleenex trying to trademark the words "facial tissue". You can't. The words belong to everyone. They're part of our language.

Jerry Peck · #19 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

For those that like to be up on their terminology:

The proper term is disposer. Disposal is General Electric's brand name. Not much different than saying hot water heater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Fabry

Hi Eric,

Just last week I spent a LOT of time on the phone and internet researching that bit of information. To the best of my ability and belief, I must state that it's just not true.

Garbage disposal and garbage disposer are not trademarked or trade names. All variants that are commonly used are acceptable. "Garbage Disposal" is by far the most popular and is used by EVERY manufacturer that I could think of. It's also the most common term in dictionaries and such.

If anyone has any evidence otherwise, I'd be happy to be wrong just to know the truth.

Chad,

This is where you have Eric ... "l" ... one measly little "l".

GE uses, and has the trademark on, "Disposall" - with TWO "ll".

So, what should have been a simple 'typo correction' you turned into (in your words) "Just last week I spent a LOT of time on the phone and internet researching ..."

Larger Photo

That said, ...

SECTION P2716
- FOOD WASTE GRINDER

- - P2716.1 Food waste grinder waste outlets.

Food waste grinders shall be connected to a drain of not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) in diameter.

- - P2716.2 Water supply required.

Foodwaste grinders shall be provided with an adequate supply of water at a sufficient flow rate to ensure proper functioning of the unit.