Thread: Checking dishwasher heating element

I have only just recently become aware that some of us are checking dishwasher heating elements.
My question is: How are we doing this?

Since I started wearing glasses a few years ago...when I open the door my glasses fog up.

I don't know what everyone else does, but I run the dishwasher (at least thru a quick cycle) on all my home inspections. It is pretty obvious (see above comment about steamed eyeglasses) that the water is heated. I do NOT assume that other home inspectors test the dishwasher. I don't specifically test the heating element, but I look at the overall condition: check for leaks (at least twice!! due to experiences moping up kitchen floors from dishwasher leaks), if the soap cup opens, if the racks are in operable condition, etc.

I don't have the most current ASHI SOP, but the 2006 version says,
"The inspector is NOT required to inspect:
- household appliances."

In the kitchen, I have always briefly tested the sink and plumbing, stove & oven, exhaust vents (hoods), dishwasher if there is one, built-in microwaves, and open the refrigerator to see if it is cold. Of course, my reports contain well written disclaimers that each test is brief and non-conclusive, and recommends that they operate these appliances during their final walk-thru. I do not do trash compactors, wine coolers, and laundry appliances because in my mind they are not essential to a functioning home.

In my mind, and to HUD standards to some degree, every home should have some basic facilities. My inspection covers the essentials: "As defined, my general home inspection is specific to a 'normal' or typical house, its structure and the essential systems needed for shelter, running water and sanitation, heat, electrical, space and equipment to prepare meals, sleeping facilities, and safety issues."

A working dishwasher may not be essential to a functioning home, but the wives and some husbands sure appreciate that I check these appliances. Just be careful to set expectations.

Correct the above. I just read another thread about 2013 ASHI standards of practice.

10. INTERIORS
10.1 The inspector shall inspect:
A. walls, ceilings, and floors.
B. steps, stairways, and railings.
C. countertops and a representative number of installed cabinets.
D. a representative number of doors and windows.
E. garage vehicle doors and garage vehicle door operators.
F. installed ovens, ranges, surface cooking appliances, microwave ovens, dishwashing machines, and food waste grinders by using normal operating controls to activate the primary function.

I used to run all dishwashers full cycle whenever possible, until I installed my own, and it leaked when I ran it empty. Forced to read the installation instructions, where it said not to run empty because it's likely to leak at the door gasket. No dishes to deflect the spray. Now, if the dishwasher is empty, I just make sure it starts and then discharges what water I've allowed in, and then explain in the written report why I didn't run full cycle.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I used to run all dishwashers full cycle whenever possible, until I installed my own, and it leaked when I ran it empty. Forced to read the installation instructions, where it said not to run empty because it's likely to leak at the door gasket. No dishes to deflect the spray. Now, if the dishwasher is empty, I just make sure it starts and then discharges what water I've allowed in, and then explain in the written report why I didn't run full cycle.

That's quite interesting. I've run over 11,000 dishwashers empty and never had that problem. I've only had one leak but many with rotator arms that didn't rotate and heating elements that didn't heat.

If it is a new installation, don't forget to remove the instruction book and free soap samples first.

Then make sure the sink drain pipes are intact/not leaking. Turn on the water supply to the appliance.

Then check if it drains as soon as you get a little water in at the bottom, because a lot of bozos install dishwashers and garbage disposals at the same time and don't remove the plastic knock out plug that comes with the new disposal. It is located where the drain hose connects to the disposal.

The dishwasher is the longest running appliance even on a short cycle, so I get to it as soon as possible.

I check new dishwashers because most of the time the drain to disposal is blocked.

The heating element is obvious at the end of the cycle, but make sure that you choose an option that includes heat or drying.

I start the dishwasher, early in the inspection process, through a "normal" cycle with "heated dry" on. (I have found dishwashers that work properly in all cycles except the "normal" cycle.) I record the model and serial numbers before starting the unit. I look for leaks and listen for "unusual" noises. If over a basement I will check for leaks, from the basement, before continuing the inspection. If over a crawlspace, I let her run and check for leaks when I crawl the crawlspace. I let the dishwasher run As I inspect the property. When I get to the kitchen I open the dishwasher mid-cycle and let the steam roll out. If the unit has a water heating option there is a noticeable amount of steam. If not, I close the door and let it complete the cycle. I like to interrupt the "normal" cycle once and restart. One of the last things I check is to see if the dishwasher completed the "normal" cycle successfully and was in the "heated dry" cycle. If not I report a "possible heater problem".

Originally Posted by Russel Ray

That's quite interesting. I've run over 11,000 dishwashers empty and never had that problem. I've only had one leak but many with rotator arms that didn't rotate and heating elements that didn't heat.

Only one in 11,000 leaked? You have to be kidding.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I have only just recently become aware that some of us are checking dishwasher heating elements.
My question is: How are we doing this?

Opening a dishwasher to a steam cloud, does not necessarily mean the heating element is functional. My dishwasher, and most I have inspected, use a hot water supply. I use a laser temperature gauge to determine whether the water pool is warmer than 120F. Water from a tank type heater generally is between 115F and 120F.

This may be a dumb question but how would you tell if the spray bar rotates - or not?

Does anyone remove the kick plate and check for slow leaks under the DW and how it's wired?

Keep this up and we will be pulling it out to check the insulation and the high loop.

We are not required to 'inspect' them by the CAHPI SOP, not yet, but if there is doubt about the machine and I have time I run the machine breifly or for a short cycle, OK, it works.

It is a used appliance. The manufacturer has a limited 1 year warranty on it. The store or the saleman does not warranty it.
Since when is the home inspector responsible for the dozens of operations of a dishwasher? Sheesh

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

This may be a dumb question but how do know if the spray bar rotates - or not?

Does anyone remove the kick plate and check for slow leaks under the DW and how it's wired?

I set the spray bar in a position I'll remember and then check to see if it moved when the cycle is over. I think a lot of inspectors remove the kick plate. I don't, unless I see some evidence of leakage.

I have never tried to run one "dry". If I do not hear water running, I check the valve and try again. If again, no water, I do not test and state such in my report. I find very few leaks at the dishwasher, maybe one a year, but I find several that do not function properly or not at all.

I always run the dishwasher, empty or not. I check the spray wand by opening the door and checking to see if it has rotated. Sometimes you can see them moving.
I have found lots of dishwashers that have broken spray wands.
I have seen many that have bad heating elements. I
I have also found a few that did not shut off when the door opened.

Funny thing, my dishwasher died recently and managed to pump the water into my basement workshop instead on into the unit. That really sucked. The replacement dishwasher had a broken door switch so it wouldn't shut off when the door was opened.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

...
I have seen many that have bad heating elements. ...

Jack, How do you determine that the heating element is bad?

It knowing the condition of the heating element is that important to you then:

1. Turn off the power
2. Remove the front cover, at the floor.
3. disconnect the connections to the heating element.
4. Check the element resistance; you should read 10 to 13 ohms. If not, there is a problem.
5. Reconnect the element
6. replace the front cover
7. turn the power on.

Originally Posted by Don Horn

It knowing the condition of the heating element is that important to you then:..

I think it's going to be in the upcoming NAHI SoP. That's the main reason I brought it up.

Originally Posted by Terry Beck

Correct the above. I just read another thread about 2013 ASHI standards of practice......
E. garage vehicle doors and garage vehicle door operators.
F. installed ovens, ranges, surface cooking appliances, microwave ovens, dishwashing machines, and food waste grinders by using normal operating controls to activate the primary function.

I was going to comment on it should be done, as it was an installed /attached item to the house, such as the garage door opener, and much more costly.

I have always ran dishwashers, loaded or empty, full cycle. I periodically check the floor in front of it during operation between inspecting other rooms. The one I had yesterday didn't even allow me to move away from the sink - this is one of the main reasons I run them instead of just lookin' at 'em and writing something like "Appears Serviceable". - I hate that phrase and never use it, it either works or it doesn't - period....btw - The Seller had the little complimentary new dishwasher soap packets which come wrapped in cellophane in the silverware wash basket - maybe trying to give the impression the thing was new.

How do you determine the heating element is bad? It doesn't get hot in the dry cycle.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

How do you determine the heating element is bad? It doesn't get hot in the dry cycle.

It does when on heat dry, which most have. Some have an option for heat dry or air dry, air dry does not have the heat element come on, if there is no option than I believe the heat element comes on during the dry cycle.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

It does when on heat dry, which most have. Some have an option for heat dry or air dry, air dry does not have the heat element come on, if there is no option than I believe the heat element comes on during the dry cycle.

Many people have smartphones and/or iPads. If you do, you could take a few minutes and pull up the manual for that unit. Then if you have a specific area of concern you could check it right there in front of it.

Originally Posted by Rich Goeken

Many people have smartphones and/or iPads. If you do, you could take a few minutes and pull up the manual for that unit. Then if you have a specific area of concern you could check it right there in front of it.

For those who do not want to, or cannot, take the time to search for a manual, if the dial/settings does not offer the 'air dry' option ... then I suspect the only 'air dry' option is the old fashioned way - when the dishwasher has finished going through its cycles of washing and rinsing ... open the door and let the dishes air dry.

However, most will either have a heat dry/air dry/no heat dry setting or something to that effect, many used to be able to be set for wash and rinse only, no dry (which is the 'air dry' cycle because it did not turn the heat dry element on), others actually have heat dry/air dry cycles on the dial (mechanical round turning dial) or settings (electronic control panels).

One thing I started working on years ago then got side tracked from getting it up and running (actually, I had it up and running, just no one participated) was a web site with installation and user manuals, uploading then ones I had and there was an option for anyone else to upload ones they had - lack of funding and time, along with no participation from others, led me to discontinue it. That was probably 15+ or so years ago, now it might work if I get the time to see if I still have the old programming and can get it working again (so much has changed in that 15+ years or so - except for my time and funding ).

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

One thing I started working on years ago then got side tracked from getting it up and running (actually, I had it up and running, just no one participated) was a web site with installation and user manuals, uploading then ones I had and there was an option for anyone else to upload ones they had - lack of funding and time, along with no participation from others, led me to discontinue it. That was probably 15+ or so years ago, now it might work if I get the time to see if I still have the old programming and can get it working again (so much has changed in that 15+ years or so - except for my time and funding ).

Let me know when it's up. I have a few that I can send you.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

It does when on heat dry, which most have. Some have an option for heat dry or air dry, air dry does not have the heat element come on, if there is no option than I believe the heat element comes on during the dry cycle.

The question to me was how do I know if its working. Obviously, if you are checking a dishwasher heating element, you would have the setting on heat dry (or should have anyway). I don't see the sense of testing a dishwasher on air dry setting. You wouldn't know if the heating element works.

I guess I'll throw in my two cents. I've always ran dishwashers. I find 5-10 a year that leak. Newly installed ones in new construction or fix-n-flips are usually the culprits for leaking.

As soon as I arrive, I open the door and push side to side to see how well mounted and stable the dishwasher is in the cabinet. Then, I turn them on. I revisit them in a few minutes when they're in full wash mode and very slowly open the door to see how things look. And finally recheck them in drying mode. I spend less than two minutes on the dishwasher. About once a year, I'll have one blow out a big leak that takes up to ten minutes to mop up. Hazard of the business and I move on.

If the dishwasher is full of dishes, I'll put some soap in and wash the seller's dishes. So far, no complaints.

My report has a boiler plate disclaimer stating that I'm only seeing if the dishwasher appears to function but I'm unable to determine how well it will clean.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

The question to me was how do I know if its working.

There are several ways to check the element - during the heat dry cycle open the door and: a) put some water on the element, if the element is working it will sort of sizzle (but not as much as a range element would); b) put your hand near the element and feel for the heat; c) accidentally leave a plastic cup in the dishwasher and pull the melted remains out; d) I'm sure there are other versions of c) which I have not done

Obviously, if you are checking a dishwasher heating element, you would have the setting on heat dry (or should have anyway).

Obviously.

I don't see the sense of testing a dishwasher on air dry setting. You wouldn't know if the heating element works.

Agreed.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Lon Henderson

My report has a boiler plate disclaimer stating that I'm only seeing if the dishwasher appears to function but I'm unable to determine how well it will clean.

With appliances, my report had a boiler plate which stated that the appliance was only run through one cycle only, typically the longest cycle, and that working in one cycle does not mean it will work in any or all other cycles. (Wording to that affect.)

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

I have always ran dishwashers, loaded or empty, full cycle. I periodically check the floor in front of it during operation between inspecting other rooms. The one I had yesterday didn't even allow me to move away from the sink - this is one of the main reasons I run them instead of just lookin' at 'em and writing something like "Appears Serviceable". - I hate that phrase and never use it, it either works or it doesn't - period....btw - The Seller had the little complimentary new dishwasher soap packets which come wrapped in cellophane in the silverware wash basket - maybe trying to give the impression the thing was new.

So was it a clog in the discharge line or was it that the disposal plug had not been removed?

Nevada is a licensed state. State law requires we run the dishwasher though at least one cycle. Oh, well.

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

This may be a dumb question but how would you tell if the spray bar rotates - or not?

Does anyone remove the kick plate and check for slow leaks under the DW and how it's wired?

First thing I do when I get to the house is rotate the arm to the 6 o'clock position and turn on the unit. Then I go back after a few minutes to give it time ti fill and start and I check to make sure of no leaks and then let it run. By the time I get inside ( I Do the outside first) I go right to it and make sure the arm has moved. If you open it fast enough you can see most arms move.

We once had a Kenmore dishwasher that used a sliding vinyl tube that attached to the upper drawer and fed water to the upper spray bar. It was okay until the tube became loose and water was sprayed directly against the door - flood city. The replacement washer developed a crack in the end of the spray bar and water would shoot out the end of it directly at the door - flood city. I replaced all the door seals before I noticed the split in the bar. My volunteered advice is to watch it awhile before leaving it unattended; especially in vacant houses.

It never ceases to amaze me that people put very nice and expensive hardwood floors in kitchens. I would love to but my experience says no way.

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

My volunteered advice is to watch it awhile before leaving it unattended; especially in vacant houses.

Vacant houses as a slightly different matter, but only slightly different ... I would ask the owners/their agent/whomever was their representative/seller disclosure (yep, came in good for this) if all of the appliances worked or if there were any appliances I should know something about before operating them - when the answer was 'Everything works as it should' (which was about 99.94% of the time) I was therefore granted permission to operate the appliance and walk away as the appliances were intended to operate on their own unattended.

If a leak developed ... oh well ... not my problem, *I ASKED* if there was anything I should know about any of the appliances and THEY SAID that all worked.

If there was a leak, no, I did not clean it up ... again ... not my problem. (yes, that is a "period" at the end of that sentence ) What can I say, it worked for me and my clients.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

If there was a leak, no, I did not clean it up ... again ... not my problem. (yes, that is a "period" at the end of that sentence ) What can I say, it worked for me and my clients.

Democrats (and you) like to say "PERIOD" after a statement

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

Democrats (and you) like to say "PERIOD" after a statement

That is better than saying that if it takes ruining the country to get the President, ruining the country is acceptable (like the Republicans said they were willing to do) ... I'm not the one who brought politics into the discussion.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That is better than saying that if it takes ruining the country to get the President, ruining the country is acceptable (like the Republicans said they were willing to do) ... I'm not the one who brought politics into the discussion.

I just pointed out a seemingly humorous similarity. Period

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

I just pointed out a seemingly humorous similarity. Period

Not my period.