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  1. #1
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    Default Bathroom exhaust fan

    During a inspection client asked if a fan was also needed in the separate enclosed toilet area. The enclosure has slots on the door. This is a master bath, it has a fan but there no fan in the separate enclosed toilet area. The total area is about 100sq which includes the toilet enclosures. I told him I would research it. Any advise ?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Yes, it should have an exhaust fan in that separate toilet room.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Yes, it should have an exhaust fan in that separate toilet room.
    Thank you Jerry. I can always count on you for advise. Have a great evening.

    fidel

    Fidel F. Gonzales
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    If they replace the standard exhaust fan for the inline type, it will be an easy upgrade to add a duct and a vent above the toilet.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    If they replace the standard exhaust fan for the inline type, it will be an easy upgrade to add a duct and a vent above the toilet.
    They could also install a roof or wall mounted exhaust fan and duct to all the bathrooms and toilet rooms.

    They could also add a window if there is an exterior wall in that room.

    There are options, but, the short answer is that ventilation is required, and, with the question being if an exhaust fan is required, the answer is yes (stretched out longer by the above options if one so desires).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    They could also install a roof or wall mounted exhaust fan and duct to all the bathrooms and toilet rooms.

    They could also add a window if there is an exterior wall in that room.

    There are options, but, the short answer is that ventilation is required, and, with the question being if an exhaust fan is required, the answer is yes (stretched out longer by the above options if one so desires).
    If I see a practical solution that is cheap and easy, I will offer it. That way it may actually get done.
    From your postion of authority, 'required' is sufficient to get it done. Different perspective.

    A duct is easy to install, involving no major wiring or major framing. Both of those options would cause a 'permit ' to be 'required'.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    If I see a practical solution that is cheap and easy, I will offer it. That way it may actually get done.
    From your postion of authority, 'required' is sufficient to get it done. Different perspective.

    A duct is easy to install, involving no major wiring or major framing. Both of those options would cause a 'permit ' to be 'required'.
    John,

    From my position, "required" is "ventilation" ... I also offer options as to how to achieve and meet what is "required".

    Typically, an existing bathroom exhaust fan would not be removed and an inline exhaust fan installed - typically, the existing bathroom exhaust fan would be left alone (adds extra work to remove it and replace it with something else) and a new exhaust fan would be installed as it would most likely end up being less work.

    Then there are other factors to consider, such as (but not limited to): attic above; second floor above; no exterior wall; no easy exterior access; etc.

    Seldom are things cut and dry and/or easy.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Exhaust fans are 'required' typically for new construction only. If the client is buying an existing older home then I would state a fan is 'recommended' in the toilet room. Simple as that.

    RJDalga
    http://homeanalysts.com
    Kalamazoo, MI

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    If they replace the standard exhaust fan for the inline type, it will be an easy upgrade to add a duct and a vent above the toilet.
    Not that easy actually, $300 or so for the fan, ducts, vent and a hole in the ceiling to patch. Probably cheaper and easier to add a small exhaust fan tapped off the other fan with a Y on the vent. This is if he attic is accessible.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Dalga View Post
    Exhaust fans are 'required' typically for new construction only. If the client is buying an existing older home then I would state a fan is 'recommended' in the toilet room. Simple as that.
    Unless it was an older home, say older than the 1940s or 50s (just guessing with these) then "ventilation" was likely "required" at the time the house was constructed.

    Typically, that "ventilation" would have been a window and the bathroom would have been located on an exterior wall to allow for that window to be installed.

    If the bathroom was an interior bathroom ... exhaust fans did exist back then, and much older than that, and were installed in the bathrooms which were not along an exterior wall.

    Thus, is a exhaust fan "required" in a bathroom in an existing older home? The better question would be "was" "ventilation" required in a bathroom in an existing older home when it was constructed - and that answer would most likely be "Yes, ventilation was *required* at the time of construction* and therefore should still be present."

    However, the original question was about in a toilet room in a bathroom which did have an exhaust fan ... ... and that becomes a bit more questionable in those much older homes - except that most of those much older homes did not have separate toilet rooms.

    Thus, if the house has a separate toilet room then it also was likely to have been "required" to have "ventilation". No window, then an exhaust fan.

    Now, real old homes which have a toilet room may have had indoor plumbing for the kitchen and "bath"rooms (no "toilet", just a sink and bathtub) may have had plumbing tun to an existing closet and a toilet was installed in that closet with water in it - thus one reasonable explanation for where the term "water closet" came from. Those toilet rooms would not have had ventilation ... at first ... but after a decade or so of stinking up the house around it, ventilation may have become a requirement.

    Back again to the original question of an exhaust fan for a separate toilet room where there is an exhaust fan in the bathroom - many decades ago the thinking was that the toilet room was 'part of the bathroom and the bathroom had ventilation' ... then some smart thinker said 'Whoa - there is a door blocking the "toilet room" off from the rest of the bathroom and the "toilet room" is not benefiting from the exhaust fan in the bathroom and needs to have its own exhaust fan.' That happened back in, as I recall, the 1970s when "toilet rooms" were becoming popular.

    Got to git the crapper out of the bathroom, right?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11

    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    My understanding of this subject is that ventilation is required in rooms with "bathing facilities", eg: tub or shower, primarily for moisture control, not odor control. Hence, powder rooms technically do not require one. Unless you are from waaaay back in the woods, a toilet is not a bathing facility. In a toilet room it would be called a "fart fan" correct?

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Thus, is a exhaust fan "required" in a bathroom in an existing older home? The better question would be "was" "ventilation" required in a bathroom in an existing older home when it was constructed - and that answer would most likely be "Yes, ventilation was *required* at the time of construction* and therefore should still be present."


    Thus, if the house has a separate toilet room then it also was likely to have been "required" to have "ventilation". No window, then an exhaust fan.


    Back again to the original question of an exhaust fan for a separate toilet room where there is an exhaust fan in the bathroom - many decades ago the thinking was that the toilet room was 'part of the bathroom and the bathroom had ventilation' ... then some smart thinker said 'Whoa - there is a door blocking the "toilet room" off from the rest of the bathroom and the "toilet room" is not benefiting from the exhaust fan in the bathroom and needs to have its own exhaust fan.' That happened back in, as I recall, the 1970s when "toilet rooms" were becoming popular.
    This toilet room has slots in the door. That may be enough to satisfy the requirement. We'd need dimensions of the door slots.

    How about they just promise to leave the door open?

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bathroom exhaust fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Bostick View Post
    My understanding of this subject is that ventilation is required in rooms with "bathing facilities", eg: tub or shower, primarily for moisture control, not odor control. Hence, powder rooms technically do not require one. Unless you are from waaaay back in the woods, a toilet is not a bathing facility. In a toilet room it would be called a "fart fan" correct?
    Sounds good, but ...

    From the 2012 IRC, and it has been like this for a long time: (bold is mine)
    - R303.3 Bathrooms.
    - - Bathrooms, water closet compartments and other similar rooms shall be provided with aggregate glazing area in windows of not less than 3 square feet (0.3 m2), one-half of which must be openable.
    - - - Exception: The glazed areas shall not be required where artificial light and a local exhaust system are provided. The minimum local exhaust rates shall be determined in accordance with Section M1507. Exhaust air from the space shall be exhausted directly to the outdoors.

    TABLE M1507.4 MINIMUM REQUIRED LOCAL EXHAUST RATES FOR ONE- AND TWO-FAMILY DWELLINGS
    - AREA TO BE EXHAUSTED - - EXHAUST RATES
    - - - Kitchens - - - - - - - - - 100 cfm intermittent or 25 cfm continuous
    - Bathrooms-Toilet Rooms - - - Mechanical exhaust capacity of 50 cfm intermittent or 20 cfm continuous

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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