Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Jacqueline Keenan's Avatar
    Jacqueline Keenan Guest

    Thumbs up Owner Builder....LOL

    Hi,
    I'm Jacquie. I found you all on Google. I needed to know if my new Bosch Dishwasher needed an airgap on the counter. So happy I don't have to have another hole cut into the Quartz. It will look much cleaner.
    Thanks for your help!!!

    Similar Threads:
    F.I.R.E. Services

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,842

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqueline Keenan View Post
    Hi,
    I'm Jacquie. I found you all on Google. I needed to know if my new Bosch Dishwasher needed an airgap on the counter. So happy I don't have to have another hole cut into the Quartz. It will look much cleaner.
    Thanks for your help!!!
    It depends on the area you live in. Being in California the chances are pretty good that it is required in your area… Many things are required in CA that are not required in any other state or even Mars!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Bad news....looks like you have to fire up the hole saw. Not only do we want an air gap but, we want also want to see it on the countertop. Rumor has it....Mars only requires a "high loop!"

    I'm sure your new Bosch has internal check valves and a high loop over the top of the dishwasher...we still need to see an air gap on the countertop.

    If it's any consolation, the air gap is more reliable than a high loop or a check valve.

    before you drill..check local codes....cities have been known to have different interpretations...

    Certified CREIA Inspector
    Certified NSPF Pool & Spa Inspector
    Level I Thermographer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqueline Keenan View Post
    Hi,
    I'm Jacquie. I found you all on Google. I needed to know if my new Bosch Dishwasher needed an airgap on the counter. So happy I don't have to have another hole cut into the Quartz. It will look much cleaner.
    Thanks for your help!!!
    Jacqueline

    I live in Ca. - n. San Diego and recently installed an island quartz countertop, with new dishwasher and faucet and did not install a counter air gap. I too prefer the cleaner look without it. I did, however install an air admittance valve ($10 from Home Depot) under the sink and also 'high looped' the dw discharge line, which connects to the garbage disposer.

    I'm not expecting the local code enforcement police to come knocking on my door anytime soon, even though it is a local requirement to install the air gap. Should I sell my house and it becomes an issue with the buyer, I'll explain my decision and, if they still want the air gap installed, that's the time to get the hole cut. In the meantime I'll live without the air gap, preferring to keep the cleaner line of the Quartz. It's not a big deal to cut the hole and any back-up in the waste line would be exposed at the garbage disposer anyway. If I were buying, I know what I would choose.

    Many new dishwashers have a check- valve pre-installed which prevents discharged water flowing back into the unit basically making the counter air gap redundant, providing discharge is made into the garbage disposer - which, it itself becomes an air-gap if left unsealed, as they frequently are.

    The choice is yours, install or not as long as you understand possible ramifications of not doing so. The air-gap is a safety device to provide venting and alert you to waste back-up but everything will work just fine without one, especially if directly connected to the disposer.

    Last edited by Ian Page; 11-04-2015 at 09:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,724

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Jacquie,
    If you go that rout, look for one that meets:


    - ASSE 1050 & 1051
    - ICC ESR-1664

    - NSF Standard 14

    - IAPMO – Classified Mark

    - ASTM D 2665/D 2661

    Not the $5.99 cheater in black



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Hi Jacquie,

    Call your local inspectors who will be covering plumbing and building. Ask who's inspection supersedes, if any, and ask them what they will accept. If you call them and treat them with respect they are usually more than happy in an owner/builder situation to tell you what they will accept. It's saved me much grief doing the same thing and though the codes are different in Canada, people are people and often want to be involved and help out, especially when they can.

    Blessings,

    Tim

    Last edited by Tim de Vries; 11-13-2015 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Duplicated

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,396

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    The most apparent thing that I noticed was my Bosch dishwasher was much quieter before I installed the airgap. A fair amount of noise comes out of the airgap when the dishwasher is draining.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqueline Keenan View Post
    Hi,
    I'm Jacquie. I found you all on Google. I needed to know if my new Bosch Dishwasher needed an airgap on the counter. So happy I don't have to have another hole cut into the Quartz. It will look much cleaner.
    Thanks for your help!!!
    No don't bother just fasten the dishwasher houe high up to the very bottom of the underside of the counter. This is known as a Hi Loop method and regardless of the plumbing code jurisdiction works just fine and you don't need a permit anyway


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    S.W. Missouri
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier jeffery View Post
    No don't bother just fasten the dishwasher houe high up to the very bottom of the underside of the counter. This is known as a Hi Loop method and regardless of the plumbing code jurisdiction works just fine and you don't need a permit anyway
    The above suggestion may be fine now... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R View Post
    The above suggestion may be fine now... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then.
    Only if the code requires an air gap, many codes only require an air gap or ... that "or" is crucial ... or per the manufacturer's installation instructions, and most (if not all) manufacturers allow the high loop.

    In California, where the original poster is, an air gap is required - but people outside California read these posts so I am just clarifying the " ... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then." statement is a "depends" statement ... as in 'it depends' on where you live and what the code in your area says.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Only if the code requires an air gap, many codes only require an air gap or ... that "or" is crucial ... or per the manufacturer's installation instructions, and most (if not all) manufacturers allow the high loop.

    In California, where the original poster is, an air gap is required - but people outside California read these posts so I am just clarifying the " ... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then." statement is a "depends" statement ... as in 'it depends' on where you live and what the code in your area says.
    Yep, Jerry. It also depends on what the buyer is willing to accept - especially in this instance where a cosmetic 'look' may be more important to them than code requirement or functionality.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    S.W. Missouri
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Only if the code requires an air gap, many codes only require an air gap or ... that "or" is crucial ... or per the manufacturer's installation instructions, and most (if not all) manufacturers allow the high loop.

    In California, where the original poster is, an air gap is required - but people outside California read these posts so I am just clarifying the " ... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then." statement is a "depends" statement ... as in 'it depends' on where you live and what the code in your area says.
    Yes... Let me qualify what I meant. Check the code. Even the city may have their own code that supersedes the national code, such as Davis, Ca. If it is required by all means comply because it will become an issue later. Davis, Ca. performs "city inspections" on EVERY home that transfers owners.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R View Post
    Yes... Let me qualify what I meant. Check the code. Even the city may have their own code that supersedes the national code, such as Davis, Ca. If it is required by all means comply because it will become an issue later. Davis, Ca. performs "city inspections" on EVERY home that transfers owners.
    Bob, where did you get that information from about Davis, CA performing 'city Inspections'? Now they might do a drive-by to verify the property exists but there is nothing that I can find in their local ordinance or municipal code which gives any authority to any staff member to enter the property unless exergent circumstances exist, have a warrant or are requested / permitted by the owner. Y

    Code enforcement personnel (nonpolice) basically only respond when a complaint is made. Building permit staff simply wouldn't have the time to arbitrarily visit every property sold to establish code compliance of every aspect of every code. Your assertion triggers all sorts of search and seizure issues.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Page View Post
    Bob, where did you get that information from about Davis, CA performing 'city Inspections'? Now they might do a drive-by to verify the property exists but there is nothing that I can find in their local ordinance or municipal code which gives any authority to any staff member to enter the property unless exergent circumstances exist, have a warrant or are requested / permitted by the owner. Y

    Code enforcement personnel (nonpolice) basically only respond when a complaint is made. Building permit staff simply wouldn't have the time to arbitrarily visit every property sold to establish code compliance of every aspect of every code. Your assertion triggers all sorts of search and seizure issues.
    Ian,

    I'm not sure about Davis, CA, but I know that there used to be many cities which have (at least had at that time) ordinances which required a 'city inspection' when a property was listed for lease, rent, or sale. It was a nominal inspection for life-safety issues, those inspections didn't really 'address code issues' but they did address life-safety issues and would point out other serious 'code issues' during their inspection.

    Those inspections did not trigger any search and seizure issues as those inspections were only triggered when the property was offered for lease, rent, of sale and (essentially) 'the public' was being invited in ... the inspection was for the protection of 'the public'.

    I know some areas outside St. Louis used to have those inspections, and I've heard of them being required in other areas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I did a quick Google search and found these:
    - http://cityofdavis.org/home/showdocument?id=472
    - City of Davis, CA : Resale Program

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    High Springs, Florida
    Posts
    71

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    New washer don't need it.
    Wash your dishes babe and move on.


    www.1stproinspection.com

    Certified Master Inspector
    Like Us On Facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/1stproinspection/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Wow...Jerry, thank you for the research. I must admit I didn't spend a whole lot of time searching...didn't have it to spend. I am truly stunned that this kind of intrusive (IMO) inspection exists. I understand the meaning and desire he City of Davis has to protect its citizens but I am amazed that his hasn't been challenged and removed. Though I suspect it is money-maker for the AHJ. Times have changed since 1976.

    I am anxious to hear from any Davis Home Inspector has to the impact this ordinance has on their business - sure would be a damper in many areas

    Bob, my apologies...


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Page View Post
    Wow...Jerry, thank you for the research. I must admit I didn't spend a whole lot of time searching...didn't have it to spend. I am truly stunned that this kind of intrusive (IMO) inspection exists. I understand the meaning and desire he City of Davis has to protect its citizens but I am amazed that his hasn't been challenged and removed. Though I suspect it is money-maker for the AHJ. Times have changed since 1976.

    I am anxious to hear from any Davis Home Inspector has to the impact this ordinance has on their business - sure would be a damper in many areas

    Bob, my apologies...
    Ian,

    When you think about who you are inviting in when you list a house ... you are opening your house to the world, which includes on-duty/off-duty building inspectors/police/criminals/you-name-it, and you are inviting them into your house to 'look around'.

    It's not like there is any expectation of privacy - you opened the door when you listed the house.

    I doubt there is a court anywhere in the land who would find it intrusive for anyone you invited in to come in and look around to, well, come in and look around. And if you did something unsafe (such as converted a dark hole of a room in the basement as a bedroom) you should expect anyone you invited in to find it and see it. From there it's a wide open field day.

    I guess it gets back to one of those stupid things we've been discussing here - someone who has converted a dark hole of a room in the basement into a bedroom and then invites the world in to look around ... can likely be found in the dictionary showing their photo at the definition of stupid - to show what stupid looks like.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Well Jerry...not really, maybe, yes and no.
    courts have long held that governmental access has a much higher threshold to establish than the general public does. The government is there for enforcement purposes of some description, John Q Public is not. Secondly, a house for sale does not have to be listed - thereby removing the public having access aspect. Third, open houses are for a limited time, for a specific purpose and the owner/ agent can impose limitations without legal reprisal. Fourth, a house can and often are, listed for sale by appointment only - thus removing any public access.

    i still think it's a matter of government overstepping, which I would challenge if I was selling in Davis


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Page View Post
    i still think it's a matter of government overstepping, which I would challenge if I was selling in Davis
    I think that is anyone has a problem with having the inspection made on a house which is listed, likely has something to hide.

    I agree that not all houses are listed, and that could create an 'out' for what I am describing, nonetheless, though, if someone is selling a house which has not been illegally converted or some other major thing done which should not have been done, 'the government' is simply protecting 'the public' and there should not be anything to worry about.

    In my opinion, the courts have gone way to far in some cases, and a case in point that I am all too familiar with (having lived in South Florida for 20 years before moving to the Daytona Beach area (few know where Ormond Beach is) is this: voting ballots are required to be in Spanish as well as English.

    That is correct.

    When a person attains US citizenship, they acknowledge and attest that they can read, write, and speak English and will follow the constitution, etc., blah, blah, blah.

    Only US citizens are permitted to vote.

    Therefore, any person voting has already attested that they can read, write, and speak English - so why does a ballot need to be in Spanish too?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Only if the code requires an air gap, many codes only require an air gap or ... that "or" is crucial ... or per the manufacturer's installation instructions, and most (if not all) manufacturers allow the high loop.

    In California, where the original poster is, an air gap is required - but people outside California read these posts so I am just clarifying the " ... but if you sell, the buyers HI may call it out and you will be doing it then." statement is a "depends" statement ... as in 'it depends' on where you live and what the code in your area says.
    Actually like most worthless ideas that seem to be unique to California "things" work just fine but need an added bureaucratic California finishing touch. The principal of physics does not change state to state. A perfect example is the requirement that sprinkler systems be installed inside residential dwellings. SOOOO have a fire then saturate the house with water damage. BRIGHT


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier jeffery View Post
    SOOOO have a fire then saturate the house with water damage. BRIGHT
    You may get out soaking wet, but at least you get out.

    The fire sprinkler is not there to 'save the house', the fire sprinkler is there to 'allow the occupants to get out alive'.

    Insurance companies are in a conundrum over fire sprinklers:
    a) Fire sprinklers save lives and, as a side benefit, keep the houses from burning to the ground - save the insurance company money on the structure and the people's lives.
    b) Fire sprinklers do a lot of water damage when a fire is contained quickly enough - costs the insurance company a lot of extra money (but would you really rather have the house burn down and kill the occupants to save that money?).

    My point of view is from having been in construction (I am a GC), having done home inspections, and having done AHJ code inspections (I am a code inspector and plans examiner) ... one could say that I have seen both sides of the looking glass as well as having walked through the looking glass and come back through the looking glass ... that creates a different perspective.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Red face Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Five days after my son and his family moved into their $900k home, there was a small electrical fire in the garage. The offending GFCI was hidden behind a cheap pressed wood cabinet screwed to a back wall - no one knew it was there. At 2.00 a.m. all hell broke loose, alarms going off, sprinklers in the garage activated and billows of smoke filled the house. The FD arrived within minutes and blasted water everywhere. The vast majority of the damage was from water and smoke. Flames never even reached inside the home and basically only the cabinet and contents caught fire.

    The family was displaced for Five months while the insurance co. wrangled. The family of five moved four or five times in the meantime. Kitchen suffered major water damage as did the furniture and personal items (clothing, bikes, scooter) all in the garage because they were in the heroes of moving in. Whole inside of house had to be painted and tons of other remedial action. Total cost - well over $100k. They moved back into the home the day before Thanksgiving with quite a lot to be thankful for.
    Sorry for the thread drift but I didn't start it.


  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    S.W. Missouri
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Page View Post
    Bob, where did you get that information from about Davis, CA performing 'city Inspections'? Now they might do a drive-by to verify the property exists but there is nothing that I can find in their local ordinance or municipal code which gives any authority to any staff member to enter the property unless exergent circumstances exist, have a warrant or are requested / permitted by the owner. Y

    Code enforcement personnel (nonpolice) basically only respond when a complaint is made. Building permit staff simply wouldn't have the time to arbitrarily visit every property sold to establish code compliance of every aspect of every code. Your assertion triggers all sorts of search and seizure issues.
    I know this because I was there in the late 90s. The city had in-house inspectors (similar to HI's)that would schedule and perform these inspections. The sale transaction could not complete until the inspection was performed and items on the report were corrected. This was mainly to keep slum lords under control. It was not uncommon for a property owner to convert a two car garage into 4 bedrooms to charge higher rent. I guess it's possible they don't do that any longer, but I doubt it.


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lansdale, PA
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier jeffery View Post
    Actually like most worthless ideas that seem to be unique to California "things" work just fine but need an added bureaucratic California finishing touch. The principal of physics does not change state to state. A perfect example is the requirement that sprinkler systems be installed inside residential dwellings. SOOOO have a fire then saturate the house with water damage. BRIGHT
    Studies show that sprinkler systems put out fire with hundreds of gallons of water, and there has been virtually no loss of life in houses with sprinklers. Fire companies put out fires with thousands of gallons of water. Fire reach flashover conditions far faster than they used to in houses. Often times by the time the fire company gets there the house is a complete loss.

    Sorry for continuing the thread drift.


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Good points Mark,

    In addition they reduce smoke damage, and water damage, contain the fire, and also help firefighters. Insurers also provide premium savings.


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,976

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Page View Post
    Five days after my son and his family moved into their $900k home, there was a small electrical fire in the garage. The offending GFCI was hidden behind a cheap pressed wood cabinet screwed to a back wall - no one knew it was there. At 2.00 a.m. all hell broke loose, alarms going off, sprinklers in the garage activated and billows of smoke filled the house. The FD arrived within minutes and blasted water everywhere. The vast majority of the damage was from water and smoke. Flames never even reached inside the home and basically only the cabinet and contents caught fire.

    The family was displaced for Five months while the insurance co. wrangled. The family of five moved four or five times in the meantime. Kitchen suffered major water damage as did the furniture and personal items (clothing, bikes, scooter) all in the garage because they were in the heroes of moving in. Whole inside of house had to be painted and tons of other remedial action. Total cost - well over $100k. They moved back into the home the day before Thanksgiving with quite a lot to be thankful for.
    Sorry for the thread drift but I didn't start it.
    My neighbor across the street bought a house two blocks away for his mother to live in, the closed on a Wednesday, started moving in on that Thursday, and that Friday afternoon a tree fell through the roof ... does that mean we need to cut all the trees down? Saturday morning the tree was removed and the roof repaired.

    Waiting 5 months because of insurance haggling has nothing to do with fire sprinklers and saving lives, that has to do with greed and refusing to address claims in a timely manner - should the insurance agents be lined up and shot for failing to do their duty?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My neighbor across the street bought a house two blocks away for his mother to live in, the closed on a Wednesday, started moving in on that Thursday, and that Friday afternoon a tree fell through the roof ... does that mean we need to cut all the trees down? Saturday morning the tree was removed and the roof repaired.

    Waiting 5 months because of insurance haggling has nothing to do with fire sprinklers and saving lives, that has to do with greed and refusing to address claims in a timely manner - should the insurance agents be lined up and shot for failing to do their duty?
    Reply
    I still believe that putting sprinklers inside a single family residence will prove to be a mistake. Smoke alarms should adequately alert occupants to evacuate People die more often from smoke inhalation and to remain in a dwelling long enough for the sprinkler system to activate defies practical logic I seriously question if the sprinkler requirements were not predicated for personal financial gains from the bureaucrats initiating the requirements

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My neighbor across the street bought a house two blocks away for his mother to live in, the closed on a Wednesday, started moving in on that Thursday, and that Friday afternoon a tree fell through the roof ... does that mean we need to cut all the trees down? Saturday morning the tree was removed and the roof repaired.

    Waiting 5 months because of insurance haggling has nothing to do with fire sprinklers and saving lives, that has to do with greed and refusing to address claims in a timely manner - should the insurance agents be lined up and shot for failing to do their duty?
    Reply
    I still believe that putting sprinklers inside a single family residence will prove to be a mistake. Smoke alarms should adequately alert occupants to evacuate People die more often from smoke inhalation and to remain in a dwelling long enough for the sprinkler system to activate defies practical logic I seriously question if the sprinkler requirements were not predicated for personal financial gains from the bureaucrats initiating the requirements

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My neighbor across the street bought a house two blocks away for his mother to live in, the closed on a Wednesday, started moving in on that Thursday, and that Friday afternoon a tree fell through the roof ... does that mean we need to cut all the trees down? Saturday morning the tree was removed and the roof repaired.

    Waiting 5 months because of insurance haggling has nothing to do with fire sprinklers and saving lives, that has to do with greed and refusing to address claims in a timely manner - should the insurance agents be lined up and shot for failing to do their duty?
    Reply
    I still believe that putting sprinklers inside a single family residence will prove to be a mistake. Smoke alarms should adequately alert occupants to evacuate People die more often from smoke inhalation and to remain in a dwelling long enough for the sprinkler system to activate defies practical logic I seriously question if the sprinkler requirements were not predicated for personal financial gains from the bureaucrats initiating the requirements


  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Owner Builder....LOL

    I certainly see the value of the sprinkler system, as in my son's case. The sprinklers were in the garage with three bedrooms directly above. The family was alerted to the fire by smoke alarms sounding. My son had smelled an acrid odor a couple of hours earlier, went to investigate, checked the whole house, including garage, found nothing - because the burning was hidden behind the cabinet and went to bed. He put the smell down to something outside the home.

    Seems the vast majority of the damage was actually caused by the responding FDs hoses and garage sprinklers. Undoubtedly the kids, who were sleeping directly above, were saved by the smoke alarms sounding which were linked in series. Everyone was out of the house by the time the FD arrived by which time the whole house was filled with smoke and the cabinet fully ablaze.

    The delay in settlement and remedial action was primarily caused by having 3 different adjusters, a salvage/restoration crew who used a variety of sub-contractors and in co-ordinating the different trades involved. Of course the Insurance co. had to get approval 'up the ladder' each time a quote was presented and whenever work was completed. Some of the contractors wanted some funds up front to start the job and the insurance would only pay out if and when the work was completed. In fact my son still hasn't received some items - clothing and drapery which had to be sent for cleaning. The cleaning co. is refusing to return it until they are paid and the Ins. co insists they already have been.

    Sorry for the thread drift continuance...


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •