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  1. #1
    Michael Vasquez's Avatar
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    Default Flex Gas Connector

    I am not sure if it is acceptable to have two gas flex connectors together to make one long one at a gas range. The length of the two does not exceed 6ft.

    Thank You

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Vasquez View Post
    ---- is acceptable to have two gas flex connectors together ---
    Not according to The Manufactures Installation Instructions.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  3. #3
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Michael:

    See the highlightes dstatement on page 2 of this document:

    http://www.aaronsinspections.com/Fle...0Connector.pdf

    Aaron


  4. #4

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Regarding the statement in that document "never re-use a gas connector".
    Is that true for all or most manufacturer's installation instructions/ requirements?


  5. #5
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Brandon:

    Yes. The document I provided is from a subsidiary of Watts Regulator. No small fish in the pond. All of the other flex connector manufacturers require the same. No re-use of connectors.

    Aaron


  6. #6

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Thanks Aaron.


  7. #7
    Michael Vasquez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Aaron,

    I appreciate you attaching the document.

    Thanks


  8. #8
    Martin Potokar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Michael,

    If you are inspecting homes, you would be well advised to obtain a copy of and review the National Fuel Gas Code Handbook. BTW, it is not considered acceptable practice to use/connect two flex gas hose connectors together, nor are you allowed to pass a flex gas hose connector through floors, walls or ceilings. Moreover, most municipalities do not allow use of flex gas hose connectors to connect gas fired utilization equipment such as water heaters and furnaces. While you may run across this all too often, it is ordinarily not allowed and often eliminates the drip leg/gas sediment trap.

    Martin Potokar
    Building Inspector/Consultant



    Last edited by Martin Potokar; 04-24-2008 at 12:24 AM.

  9. #9
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Moreover, most municipalities do not allow use of flex gas hose connectors to connect gas fired utilization equipment such as water heaters and furnaces.
    Martin:

    All municipalities in North Texas allow felxible appliance connectors and none require drip legs or sediment traps.

    Aaron


  10. #10
    Martin Potokar's Avatar
    Martin Potokar Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Should have qualified my previous post regarding gas drip leg/sediment traps. This is in Illinois. Boy, Texas must have some exceptionally clean natural gas!



  11. #11
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Potokar View Post
    Should have qualified my previous post regarding gas drip leg/sediment traps. This is in Illinois. Boy, Texas must have some exceptionally clean natural gas!
    Martin:

    Nah, they just have really mobbed-up builders and building officials here. And, did I mention, lot's of bullshit?

    Aaron


  12. #12
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    lot's of bullshit?
    Mmmmmm. What the hell does that mean anyhow?

    Aaron


  13. #13
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    Exclamation Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Flex connectors cannot be spliced per their listing. They also cannot be reused per their listing. All flex connectors except dryers and ranges are limited to 3ft; hose two appliances are allowed 6ft.

    Get a copy of the IRC Commentary instead of the NFGC unless you know NFPA 54 is still being used in your area. Most of the country is now under the IRC and thus the IFGC.

    Sediment traps are required by code everywhere, regardless whether or not your inspectors call for them.

    I don't know of any jurisdictions that don't allow flex connectors if properly installed.

    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  14. #14
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Sediment traps are required by code everywhere, regardless whether or not your inspectors call for them.
    Bob:

    There are no, I repeat no AHJs in the 10,000 square mile area that I cover that require either sediment traps or drip legs, though I agree that they are required. The Texas State Board of Plumbing Examiners also disagrees with the IRC and will not require them if asked.

    Aaron


  15. #15
    Randy Clayton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Arron, I don't know about you yanks in north tx; but down here in the south Tx they require drip legs and such. Though the same as you described flex lines can be run as long as it is continuess.


  16. #16
    Randy Clayton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Billie at the bottom of your posts reads "if it doesnt chouk artie it wont choke me"
    what does that mean????


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Clayton View Post
    Billie at the bottom of your posts reads "if it doesnt chouk artie it wont choke me"
    what does that mean????
    Little Rascals ( Our Gang ) sketch Porky & Buck Wheat peeling an artichoke ( like it was an orange looking for the eatable part & asks what is it? "Artichoke.") one says to the other he's not going to try it because" It might have choked Arthie but it's not going to choke him."

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  18. #18
    david ju's Avatar
    david ju Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    use tubing gas line or make a longer connector


  19. #19
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Clayton View Post
    Arron, I don't know about you yanks in north tx; but down here in the south Tx they require drip legs and such. Though the same as you described flex lines can be run as long as it is continuess.
    Randy:

    A good number of the sleazers who build up here where I am are from down there where you are. As for the low-life municipal inspectors we have, they probably figure all of the crap in the gas will run downhill to y'all down there in Clutch City and the surrounding wastelands.

    It's a gravity thing,

    Aaron


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .... " It might have choked Arthie but it's not going to choke him."
    all this time I thought you were referring to Artie Lang of the Howard Stern show


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connectors and Drip Legs/Sediment Traps

    Drip legs/Sediment traps are required by the equipment manufacturers. There is a potential for swarf and other forms of crap getting in the gas line etc. Look in any installation manual in the gas piping section. Extra cost is about $10.

    Peter Walker.


  22. #22
    David Banks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Klampfer View Post
    all this time I thought you were referring to Artie Lang of the Howard Stern show
    Joe. You look a little like Artie Lang.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by David Banks View Post
    Joe. You look a little like Artie Lang.
    haha... maybe he'd take me in as a long lost brother and we could go party.


  24. #24
    Randy Clayton's Avatar
    Randy Clayton Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Billie haha I think I remember that one why cant they make such good entertainment anymore.And the other guy was right Joe does look like Lange!!!!


  25. #25
    Randy Clayton's Avatar
    Randy Clayton Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Arron, yea those slez balls needed to come up thier and teach you boys a thing or to. I think some of your muni.. inspectors cousins are embreaded here too..


  26. #26
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Randy,

    As Aaron stated-- not required in our neck(ed) of the woods... We might see'em about 2% of the time in new construction.

    Rich


  27. #27
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rushing View Post
    Randy,

    As Aaron stated-- not required in our neck(ed) of the woods... We might see'em about 2% of the time in new construction.

    Rich
    Richard:

    And I think that 2% are mistakes, or the plumbers were just getting rid of the extra parts in their tool boxes.

    Aaron


  28. #28
    Martin Potokar's Avatar
    Martin Potokar Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    I stand corrected. My previous post should have read IFGC (International Fuel Gas Code) written by the ICC (International Code Council) not The National Fuel Gas Code formerly by NFPA. The IFGC is presently what's being used by most municipalities. Sorry 'bout that.

    Also, so there's no misinterpretation, drips and sediment traps are not the same in that they serve different purposes (refer to IFGC 408). Since most utility companies don't have a problem with wet gas, the drip isn't required but the sediment trap is! If in doubt, check with your utility company.



  29. #29
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    If in doubt, check with your utility company.
    Martin:

    I've checked. Apparently here the utility companies believe that nothing can possibly foul their gas no matter where it is . . . so they do not require sediment traps.

    Aaron


  30. #30
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    Exclamation Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Aaron, the point is, the CODES require sediment traps, therefore you MUST install them whether your AHJs, gas utility or Mickey Mouse requires them or not. A law is a law. Also, mfr.s will require them.

    Sediment traps are not just there for "wet gas' but all sorts of trash and debris. There have been plenty of lawsuits where gas valves failed, caused fires and explosions because of crap that got caught in the valve seat.

    There are code reasons, legal reasons and practical reasons. If you fail to point out a sediment trap is missing and that is found to be the proximate cause of an incident, your butt will most certainly be in the sling regardless of what any SOP, AHJ, or utility says. Worse, people can get hurt. Think about that.
    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  31. #31
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
    Michael Greenwalt Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Bob is right on track! A failure to report a missing sediment trap could lead to some serious liability, not to mention injury or death to a client, family member or guest. They are their for a reason and it is our duty to give our clients the information. They are then free to make a decision for themselves.

    Bob, glad to see you are going to be in Philly for the Sept training. I have a list of questions to bring, hope your ready . I think everyone available to attend should come to hear what you have to say. Thanks for making the event.

    Michael


  32. #32
    Brandon Chew's Avatar
    Brandon Chew Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Plaintiff's Exhibit A: Manufacturer's installation instructions

    Plaintiff's Exhibit B: Tee, nipple, cap, and receipt from Big Orange Box for $5.62


  33. #33
    Randy Clayton's Avatar
    Randy Clayton Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    I agree sorry to hear from my fellow TEXAS brothers that they only see it 2% of the time only makes me wunder about this and other things the other 98% oof the time?????


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    I did a reinspect yesterday on furnace with FSST through an access hole in the cabinet to the regulator valve. I wrote it up, as always, needing short piece of black pipe to extend connection to the exterior of the cabinet.
    Current local code requires and all new construction is installed in this manner. The seller tells me that the local gas co. and HVAC contractor gave the installation a clean bill of health, as it was installed proir to code requirement. The house was built in 1988. I was not aware of anytime frame that installation through the panel was ok.
    I read the Dormont installation instructions and only found reference to not allowing it to come in contact with metal etc.

    I gave the seller information needed to make his own decision regarding need for safety, and I am not going to battle with the gas co. or the HVAC contractor. I would like to know if there is a code compliance date for future reference. Any one know? JP? JM?


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    From the Dormont Flexible Gas Connector installation instructions, section 7 on page 5 of 7 "7. Attach fitting to appliance inlet.", which, to me, says it is okay to enter the appliance cabinet if the appliance inlet is within the cabinet ... so long as you isolate the flexible gas connector from the cabinet, i.e., with a rubber donut bushing or something like it.

    Are you sure that current local code requires a rigid pipe extending out through the cabinet side? The most (all?)codes say something to the effect of 'must be installed in accordance with manufacturer's installation instructions *and* this code', not 'or'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    I have not read it in the code myself, but have been told. Also gas co. stated "it was not required back when" I'll do some extended research and let you know what I find.


  37. #37
    Rick Maday's Avatar
    Rick Maday Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    Aaron, the point is, the CODES require sediment traps, therefore you MUST install them whether your AHJs, gas utility or Mickey Mouse requires them or not. A law is a law. Also, mfr.s will require them.
    Bob,

    A law is a law
    A code is a code
    A code IS NOT a law

    Codes ("minimum acceptable" practices - not "best" practices) are adopted by individual AHJs. That still does not make them law. AHJs enforce the codes (denial of CO) - cops enforce the law (take you to jail).

    A different debate is weather some builders should report to the later, but I digress...


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Jerry,
    Are you sure that current local code requires a rigid pipe extending out through the cabinet side?
    Not sure yet. Surprised to find that the CEO's (mechanical & electrical) have told me they will resurch it and let me know. Mecklenburg Co. NC has not adapted code as far as grounding but is enforcing mfg. instructions, which differ from mfg. to mfg. Installer has to leave mfg. instructions at the site for CEO.

    All I have talked to agree that rigid pipe is a good practice. I can't think of a worse place to have a gas leak due to friction or arcing than at the furnace cabinet.

    Reading the Thermo Pride CHB1-50 installation manual, I found this statement:
    These furnaces are set-up to be gas piped through either the left or right side by using a street elbow and a straight pipe. For the purposes of service, it is recommended that the gas union be located inside the furnace, when possible.
    I don't know how many mfg. installation instructions say something similar?

    I'll let you know if I find any more on the subject.


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Bob,

    A law is a law
    A code is a code
    A code IS NOT a law

    Codes ("minimum acceptable" practices - not "best" practices) are adopted by individual AHJs. That still does not make them law. AHJs enforce the codes (denial of CO) - cops enforce the law (take you to jail).
    Rick, I am not a lawyer or AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction), but it is my understanding that the codes become law when they are adopted into the local municipal, state or other government. The AHJ does not adopt the code, the municipality adopts the code (law) and the AHJ enforces.

    Just look at the first pages of your code book at the sample ordinance page.

    Section R113 Violations
    R113.1 Unlawful acts. It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to erect construct, alter, extend, repair, move, remove, demolish or occupy any building, structure or equipment regulated by this code, or cause same to be done, in conflict with or in violation of any of the provisions of this code.
    R113.3 Prosecution of violation.
    R113.4 Violation penalties.

    I think the code thinks it is law...

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  40. #40
    Rick Maday's Avatar
    Rick Maday Guest

    Default Re: Flex Gas Connector

    Thanks,
    I stand corrected.


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